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Author Topic: Will my grandpa go to hell?  (Read 3254 times)

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Offline mw2016

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Will my grandpa go to hell?
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2016, 06:30:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Miseremini
    We are not bound to accept EXTRAORDINARY measures...but do dialysis and blood transfusion qualify as extraordinary?  Both were mentioned.  These are common procedures.
    Also the OP mentioned the hospice worker.  Why is he in hospice care?  There must be some other diagnosis that puts him in a place for the terminally ill.



    Dialysis is NOT "ordinary"  - though it may be "common," meaning there are a GREAT number of people suffering on dialysis.

    It is a very serious treatment, and a very painful one, as well.

    A dialysis patient is in a state of organ failure, that progresses until other organs fail also. This is why a person can only stay on dialysis for a very limited period of time. Then they go into organ failure, and there is no more means to keep them alive and they are assigned to hospice care.

    Offline nctradcath

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    Will my grandpa go to hell?
    « Reply #16 on: June 08, 2016, 06:33:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Quote from: truthlover15
    Quote from: Raphaela
    I think these still count as extraordinary measures which a person may refuse. You only have to accept food and water. But that is just my understanding - do check with a traditional priest.

    And do get him to wear the Brown Scapular. There are no conditions! Our Lady said, "Whoever dies clothed in this will not suffer hell fire." No conditions. Leave it to Her! (As long as the person doesn't wear it in a mocking or defiant manner, but that must be very rare.)

    It's better to be properly clothed in the scapular with the special blessing, which makes the person a member of the Scapular Confraternity. Any priest can do this. But if it's not possible to have that, he should wear it anyway.



    So according to you, a Catholic can wear the scapular and commit every mortal sin under the sun, refuse to go to confession or make a perfect act of contrition, and still go to heaven?



    truthlover15
    I must be going blind since I did not see anyone post such nonsense as what you just did.  Please show us the post, if you can.  


    The above scenario is insane. We where the scapular to work out our salvation with Mary's help. I know that I am a great sinner and I feel such wretchedness when I sin while wearing Our Lady's sign. It makes me flee to confession and to her aid, so that with her help I do not sin again. Has Our Lady obtained the grace of contrition for sinners in their final moments with the scapular on? I believe that she has and I pray that I receive all the help that I need to eventually get to heaven in those awful final moments from Our Queen. We forget that that "one" mortal sin is damning. It is just as easy for God with his grace to blot out 1000000 mortal sins as just one. One sin of impurity by thought is guilty of eternal damnation.


    Offline nctradcath

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    Will my grandpa go to hell?
    « Reply #17 on: June 08, 2016, 06:37:07 PM »
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  • Please bring your grandfather a good an holy traditional priest to prepare him for what is hopefully his journey to Our Lord.

    Offline Miseremini

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    Will my grandpa go to hell?
    « Reply #18 on: June 08, 2016, 07:35:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raphaela
    There are no conditions! Our Lady said, "Whoever dies clothed in this will not suffer hell fire." No conditions. Leave it to Her!

    Sorry but you are very wrong about conditions.  

    From page 630 of the Ecclesiastical Dictionary the following is a partial quote from 2 pages.

    "To obtain the first privilege of the holy scapular, that is to say, the grace of a happy death, and to share in the indulgences of the confaternity, the merits of the Carmelite Order, and the protection of the Blessed Virgin, it is necessary to be a member of the Confraternity of the Holy Scapular.  For this purpose two conditions must be fulfilled:
    1. To receive the blessed scapular from the hands of a priest who has the power of giving it: and
    2.  To wear it around the neck day and night, in health and in sickness, in life and at death.

    To enjoy the second privilege, that is, to have a speedy release out of purgatory, it is also necessary for all the members to obtserve the chastity proper to their state.    
    Moreover, for such as can read;  to recite daily the Canonical Office of the Church, or the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin according to Roman Breviary."


    It goes on to explain for those who can't read they are to abstain from flesh meat on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday every week.

    Read the questions and answers in the back of the little booklet Garment of Grace.
    It states:
    "There are three conditions for gaining the Sabatine privilege.  They are:
    1 We must WEAR THE SCAPULAR.
    2 OBSERVE CHASTITY according to our state in life.
    3 RECITE THE LITTLE OFFICE OF OUR BLESSED MOTHER (the Rosary or some other pious work can be substituted for the Office of Our Lady.  The faculty to sanction this change was granted to ALL CONFESSORS  by Pope Leo XIII in the Decree of the Congregation of Indulgences in June of 1901)."


    But you have to ask for it.

    Too many things are not being taught since Vat II

    .  

    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Will my grandpa go to hell?
    « Reply #19 on: June 08, 2016, 07:43:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Miseremini
    Quote from: Raphaela
    There are no conditions! Our Lady said, "Whoever dies clothed in this will not suffer hell fire." No conditions. Leave it to Her!

    Sorry but you are very wrong about conditions.  

    From page 630 of the Ecclesiastical Dictionary the following is a partial quote from 2 pages.

    "To obtain the first privilege of the holy scapular, that is to say, the grace of a happy death, and to share in the indulgences of the confaternity, the merits of the Carmelite Order, and the protection of the Blessed Virgin, it is necessary to be a member of the Confraternity of the Holy Scapular.  For this purpose two conditions must be fulfilled:
    1. To receive the blessed scapular from the hands of a priest who has the power of giving it: and
    2.  To wear it around the neck day and night, in health and in sickness, in life and at death.

    To enjoy the second privilege, that is, to have a speedy release out of purgatory, it is also necessary for all the members to obtserve the chastity proper to their state.    
    Moreover, for such as can read;  to recite daily the Canonical Office of the Church, or the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin according to Roman Breviary."


    It goes on to explain for those who can't read they are to abstain from flesh meat on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday every week.

    Read the questions and answers in the back of the little booklet Garment of Grace.
    It states:
    "There are three conditions for gaining the Sabatine privilege.  They are:
    1 We must WEAR THE SCAPULAR.
    2 OBSERVE CHASTITY according to our state in life.
    3 RECITE THE LITTLE OFFICE OF OUR BLESSED MOTHER (the Rosary or some other pious work can be substituted for the Office of Our Lady.  The faculty to sanction this change was granted to ALL CONFESSORS  by Pope Leo XIII in the Decree of the Congregation of Indulgences in June of 1901)."


    But you have to ask for it.

    Too many things are not being taught since Vat II

    .  



    I may be wrong but I think The Sabbatine privilege is different to the promise Our Lady made to St Simon Stock.
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline Miseremini

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    Will my grandpa go to hell?
    « Reply #20 on: June 08, 2016, 08:41:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM

    I may be wrong but I think The Sabbatine privilege is different to the promise Our Lady made to St Simon Stock.


    They are two distinct promises.  As quoted above the first has 2 conditions and the Sabbatine 3 conditions.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Will my grandpa go to hell?
    « Reply #21 on: June 09, 2016, 12:17:41 PM »
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    We should even give the Scapular to non-Catholics as Our Lady will bring conversions to those who will wear it and say one Hail Mary each day as the following true story will show: An old man was rushed to the St. Simon Stock Hospital in New York City, unconscious and dying. The nurse, seeing the Brown Scapular on the patient, called the priest. As he was saying the prayers for the dying, the man became conscious and spoke up: "Father, I am not a Catholic." "Then why are you wearing the Brown Scapular?" asked the priest. "I promised my friends to wear it," the patient explained, "and say one Hail Mary a day." "You are dying," the priest told him. "Do you want to become a Catholic?" "All my life I wanted to be one," the gasping man replied. He was baptized, received the last rites and died in peace. Our Lady took another soul under Her mantle, through Her SCAPULAR!


    cf. https://olrl.org/pray/rosary.shtml

    If you think that wearing the scapular is a badge signifying your faithfulness and merits then you have the wrong idea about it.  It is a badge signifying the merits and power of Our Lady.  It is true that those who wear it insincerely, presumptuously or with the intention of mocking the devotion will not benefit from it but in that case Our Lord will see to it that the scapular is removed before death.  Consider the story of the woman who wore the brown scapular but fell into mortal sin and then into despair.  She determined that she would commit ѕυιcιdє by casting herself off a bridge into a river to be drowned.  She jumped and submerged into the water but soon bobbed up to the surface.  Realizing that she was still wearing the brown scapular, she tore it off and cast it aside.  Whereupon she sank into the water and drowned.

    She didn't die until she took the scapular off.  Think about it.  If you wear the brown scapular in sincerity, Our Lady will obtain for you all the graces necessary to save your soul.  Even if you are a wretched sinner beyond all humanly reasonable hope she can save you.  Don't trust in your own strength.  Trust in Our Lady's merits.

    Our Lady will save even those presumptuous Catholics who think they have merited to wear the brown scapular.  No it's not a lucky charm but neither is it a reward for good behavior.  It is a grace freely given by a loving God to whom He wills or to whom His Mother wills.

    By the way, I recommend that if you do wear the brown scapular you should wear it at all times, even while bathing.  It is far too easy to slip and fall or be electrocuted in the tub or shower.

    Also, don't wear the felt scapulars.  Make sure you have a woven scapular.  You should be able to see the weaving.

    Offline Maximus33

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    Will my grandpa go to hell?
    « Reply #22 on: June 13, 2016, 10:25:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: truthlover15
    Quote from: Raphaela
    I think these still count as extraordinary measures which a person may refuse. You only have to accept food and water. But that is just my understanding - do check with a traditional priest.

    And do get him to wear the Brown Scapular. There are no conditions! Our Lady said, "Whoever dies clothed in this will not suffer hell fire." No conditions. Leave it to Her! (As long as the person doesn't wear it in a mocking or defiant manner, but that must be very rare.)

    It's better to be properly clothed in the scapular with the special blessing, which makes the person a member of the Scapular Confraternity. Any priest can do this. But if it's not possible to have that, he should wear it anyway.



    So according to you, a Catholic can wear the scapular and commit every mortal sin under the sun, refuse to go to confession or make a perfect act of contrition, and still go to heaven?


    That's not what they are saying. You are reading way too much into this.


    Offline nctradcath

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    Will my grandpa go to hell?
    « Reply #23 on: June 14, 2016, 10:57:48 AM »
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  • From what I have read, people that fit the above description do not die in their scapular. There are very real recorded instances of such people purposely committing sins while having thier scapular on when death approaches they themselves remove the scapular due to the burning pain it caused.

    Offline poche

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    Will my grandpa go to hell?
    « Reply #24 on: June 15, 2016, 02:01:46 AM »
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  • It is not sinful for an ill person to refuse expensive or extraordinary care.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Will my grandpa go to hell?
    « Reply #25 on: June 15, 2016, 05:10:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: search55
    I'm confused. My grandfather has been on dialysis for years due to loss of blood through his bladder. Basically, he receives blood every week or else he will bleed to death.

    Now he's refusing to take the blood anymore. The hospice worker says he'll be dead within the week.

    Considering my Grandfather's catholic, is this considered ѕυιcιdє? Will he go to Hell?

    I'd appreciate any and all information to help me understand this situation. I'm not nearly as familiar with the religion or bible as my grandfather. I'm looking for help from the well versed and experienced Catholics out there.

    I appreciate any help!!


    If he's going to take that route, then please get him to the nearest Traditional Catholic priest for a General Confession or Last Rites.  If he's too sick to travel, then deliver a Catholic priest to his room at the hospice.  

    Confession is needed, and he can also discuss this decision with the priest.


    Offline nctradcath

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    Will my grandpa go to hell?
    « Reply #26 on: June 15, 2016, 08:49:40 PM »
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  • If he makes a general confession and has last rites, he will eventually go to heaven and be able to pray for you.