Author Topic: Will my grandpa go to hell? (Read 3120 times)

search55 · « **on:** June 07, 2016, 08:42:37 PM »

I'm confused. My grandfather has been on dialysis for years due to loss of blood through his bladder. Basically, he receives blood every week or else he will bleed to death.

Now he's refusing to take the blood anymore. The hospice worker says he'll be dead within the week.

Considering my Grandfather's catholic, is this considered ѕυιcιdє? Will he go to Hell?

I'd appreciate any and all information to help me understand this situation. I'm not nearly as familiar with the religion or bible as my grandfather. I'm looking for help from the well versed and experienced Catholics out there.

I appreciate any help!!

MyrnaM · « **Reply #1 on:** June 07, 2016, 08:49:22 PM »

It is my understanding that it is not necessary to accept extraordinary means to sustain your life.

Put a brown scapular on him if he doesn't wear one already. Read traditional prayers to him, as often as you can and recite the names of Jesus and Mary to him.

Hopefully your grandfather will accept a Catholic priest, as soon as possible.

Don't bother to call your neighborhood mainstream "Catholic" priest, search for a Traditional priest.

Cantarella · « **Reply #2 on:** June 07, 2016, 11:16:27 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

It is my understanding that it is not necessary to accept extraordinary means to sustain your life.

Yes, that is right. Not accepting extraordinary means to sustain life is not by any means a case of ѕυιcιdє or euthanasia. It is just leaving life run a natural course, without medical interferences for preservation.

Prayers for your grandpa.

truthlover15 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 08, 2016, 12:29:15 AM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

It is my understanding that it is not necessary to accept extraordinary means to sustain your life.

Put a brown scapular on him if he doesn't wear one already. Read traditional prayers to him, as often as you can and recite the names of Jesus and Mary to him.

Hopefully your grandfather will accept a Catholic priest, as soon as possible.

Don't bother to call your neighborhood mainstream "Catholic" priest, search for a Traditional priest.

It also must be noted that the brown scapular is not a "get out of hell free" card.

SanMateo · « **Reply #4 on:** June 08, 2016, 06:47:23 AM »

As the above posters stated, no, this is not ѕυιcιdє. One is not required to continue to use extraordinary means to stay alive.

Contact a traditional priest.

I will say a prayer for your grandfather.

Nadir · « **Reply #5 on:** June 08, 2016, 07:52:14 AM »

Your Grandfather won't go hell for refusing medical treatment. Just pray for him to die a holy death, give him as much love as possible and pray for the repose of his soul.

Stubborn · « **Reply #6 on:** June 08, 2016, 08:42:45 AM »

No, he is not in a deep coma depending on a multitude of mechanical devices to keep him alive, so don't worry about that - no one is "pulling out the plug", but this link is a PDF file of a directory that you can find a traditional Catholic priest for him. Please do not delay, let your grandpa know you are getting him a priest, then get him one so that he can receive the last sacraments before he dies. Read my signature to know why I make this recommendation.

Godspeed!

Clemens Maria · « **Reply #7 on:** June 08, 2016, 09:33:34 AM »

Quote from: truthlover15

Quote from: MyrnaM
It is my understanding that it is not necessary to accept extraordinary means to sustain your life.

Put a brown scapular on him if he doesn't wear one already. Read traditional prayers to him, as often as you can and recite the names of Jesus and Mary to him.

Hopefully your grandfather will accept a Catholic priest, as soon as possible.

Don't bother to call your neighborhood mainstream "Catholic" priest, search for a Traditional priest.

It also must be noted that the brown scapular is not a "get out of hell free" card.

That's correct but here is the Blessed Virgin Mary's promise: "Take this Scapular, it shall be a sign of salvation, a protection in danger and a pledge of peace. Whosoever dies wearing this Scapular shall not suffer eternal fire." She further says: "Wear it devoutly and perseveringly. It is my garment. To be clothed in it means you are continually thinking of me, and I in turn, am always thinking of you and helping you to secure eternal life."

Miseremini · « **Reply #8 on:** June 08, 2016, 01:27:41 PM »

We are not bound to accept EXTRAORDINARY measures...but do dialysis and blood transfusion qualify as extraordinary? Both were mentioned. These are common procedures.
Also the OP mentioned the hospice worker. Why is he in hospice care? There must be some other diagnosis that puts him in a place for the terminally ill.

As for the scapular...the promises were for those envested in the scapular who lived the conditions attached to the promises. It's not a lucky charm.

Encourage your grandfather to offer his suffering/condition in reparation for his sins, the souls in purgatory, for the conversion of sinners (especially his descendants) and for those who do not have anyone to sacrifice for them.

As his grandchild you can use the sacramentals of holy water and blessed salt to keep the devil away from him so he doesn't despair. Sprinkle him and his bed with holy water frequently and encircle it with the blessed salt.

Pray

and remember to be in a state of grace when you do.

If an when the time comes don't forget the Prayers for the Dying that Matthew has posted in the sub forum SACRED

Miseremini · « **Reply #9 on:** June 08, 2016, 03:23:57 PM »

And what part of the above deserved a thumbs down? Please elaborate.

search55 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 08, 2016, 04:54:21 PM »

First, thanks so much for the responses.

Quote from: Miseremini

but do dialysis and blood transfusion qualify as extraordinary? Both were mentioned. These are common procedures.
Also the OP mentioned the hospice worker. Why is he in hospice care? There must be some other diagnosis that puts him in a place for the terminally ill.

I misunderstood the terminology for his conditions. I just arrived here a few days ago, my uncle has been handling everything for the past year with my grandpa. My grandpa is simply receiving blood transfusions to replace the lost blood he's losing through his weak bladder (weakened from an old chemo treatment), not dialysis. Sorry for the confusion.

I must admit, I was selfishly hoping his removal from the transfusions WAS considered ѕυιcιdє to motivate him to maintain the transfusions. I just want him around longer

. But I realize this is his decision and I need to accept his wishes.

Does anyone know any relevant scripture in regards to this issue? We're tracking down a priest but I'd be curious to read up in the meantime.

Thanks again for all the kind assistance.

Raphaela · « **Reply #11 on:** June 08, 2016, 05:05:57 PM »

I think these still count as extraordinary measures which a person may refuse. You only have to accept food and water. But that is just my understanding - do check with a traditional priest.

And do get him to wear the Brown Scapular. There are no conditions! Our Lady said, "Whoever dies clothed in this will not suffer hell fire." No conditions. Leave it to Her! (As long as the person doesn't wear it in a mocking or defiant manner, but that must be very rare.)

It's better to be properly clothed in the scapular with the special blessing, which makes the person a member of the Scapular Confraternity. Any priest can do this. But if it's not possible to have that, he should wear it anyway.

truthlover15 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 08, 2016, 05:16:33 PM »

Quote from: Raphaela

I think these still count as extraordinary measures which a person may refuse. You only have to accept food and water. But that is just my understanding - do check with a traditional priest.

And do get him to wear the Brown Scapular. There are no conditions! Our Lady said, "Whoever dies clothed in this will not suffer hell fire." No conditions. Leave it to Her! (As long as the person doesn't wear it in a mocking or defiant manner, but that must be very rare.)

It's better to be properly clothed in the scapular with the special blessing, which makes the person a member of the Scapular Confraternity. Any priest can do this. But if it's not possible to have that, he should wear it anyway.

So according to you, a Catholic can wear the scapular and commit every mortal sin under the sun, refuse to go to confession or make a perfect act of contrition, and still go to heaven?

MyrnaM · « **Reply #13 on:** June 08, 2016, 06:14:42 PM »

Quote from: truthlover15

Quote from: Raphaela
I think these still count as extraordinary measures which a person may refuse. You only have to accept food and water. But that is just my understanding - do check with a traditional priest.

And do get him to wear the Brown Scapular. There are no conditions! Our Lady said, "Whoever dies clothed in this will not suffer hell fire." No conditions. Leave it to Her! (As long as the person doesn't wear it in a mocking or defiant manner, but that must be very rare.)

It's better to be properly clothed in the scapular with the special blessing, which makes the person a member of the Scapular Confraternity. Any priest can do this. But if it's not possible to have that, he should wear it anyway.

So according to you, a Catholic can wear the scapular and commit every mortal sin under the sun, refuse to go to confession or make a perfect act of contrition, and still go to heaven?

truthlover15
I must be going blind since I did not see anyone post such nonsense as what you just did. Please show us the post, if you can.

mw2016 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 08, 2016, 06:24:08 PM »

Quote from: search55

I'm confused. My grandfather has been on dialysis for years due to loss of blood through his bladder. Basically, he receives blood every week or else he will bleed to death.

Now he's refusing to take the blood anymore. The hospice worker says he'll be dead within the week.

Considering my Grandfather's catholic, is this considered ѕυιcιdє? Will he go to Hell?

I'd appreciate any and all information to help me understand this situation. I'm not nearly as familiar with the religion or bible as my grandfather. I'm looking for help from the well versed and experienced Catholics out there.

I appreciate any help!!

No, it is not ѕυιcιdє.

My Mom died in February for stopping dialysis, which she had to have every other day for the past three years to keep her alive.

You are not required to take such extraordinary, unnatural means to keep yourself alive, such as dialysis.

She suffered greatly in those three years of dialysis. She just couldn't take any more.

She died with all the Sacraments, and the priest gave her Holy Communion again the day before she died.

For what it's worth, they will sometimes tell you it takes WEEKS to die when you stop dialysis. That's not how it went for her. She lived only 13 days. If I had known it would be so relatively quick, I would have done some things differently. I would have rather been given a pessimistic outlook on the timeline, than an unrealistic longer one.