Quote from: Tiffany

Quote from: Telesphorus

"He was controlling, so I had to leave him" - how many so-called trads will accept that excuse at face value from women - how many Catholic men see themselves blamed for their wives abandoning the religion and abandoning their responsibilities?

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say this justification of women's horrible behavior and their knowledge that interlopers will support them, even at their own church, for breaking up their families, is one of the major reasons for the high divorce rate, particularly for religious men.

Being a pious man means getting a kick in the teeth from the liberals in the congregation when the worst happens.

Quote from: Zeitun

Please see the big picture and know that the devil's goal here is to split you up.  Your priority must be your soul and the soul of your wife.  Even if she has the IUD removed she may still divorce you because of the real issue--control.  While you are the head of the family, in your heavy-handedness, you haven't loved her as Christ loves the Church.  You rule her with an iron rod instead of with tender mercy.  
 

It's his fault for his heavy-handedness and not loving her.

why do you say I don't love her? what exactly was my heavy handedness, which issue are yousaying I should have been more lenient? should I still be going to the novus order mass? would this be loving her more?

Quote from: ggreg

Quote from: Zeitun

 While you are the head of the family, in your heavy-handedness, you haven't loved her as Christ loves the Church.  You rule her with an iron rod instead of with tender mercy.  

Your goal should be to convince her to use no contraception and the only way to do that is to remove her fear that you will force her to produce more babies.  She is nearing menopause anyway and her fertility is declining.

Good advice, though I question how he makes a convincing argument to the bit in red above.

If she removes the coil, biologically speaking the only way she can be sure and therefore have no fear is if they do not have sex until the menopause.

Otherwise he can lessen the fear, but he cannot remove it.  She might get pregnant again.







The Wind and the Sun were disputing which was the stronger. Suddenly they saw a traveller coming down the road, and the Sun said: "I see a way to decide our dispute. Whichever of us can cause that traveller to take off his cloak shall be regarded as the stronger. You begin." So the Sun retired behind a cloud, and the Wind began to blow as hard as it could upon the traveller. But the harder he blew the more closely did the traveller wrap his cloak round him, till at last the Wind had to give up in despair. Then the Sun came out and shone in all his glory upon the
traveller, who soon found it too hot to walk with his cloak on.

I agree I know women 46 - 48 that are still having babies.  :baby:

Quote from: Tiffany

Quote from: Novus Weirdo

Quote from: Tiffany

Quote from: Telesphorus

"He was controlling, so I had to leave him" - how many so-called trads will accept that excuse at face value from women - how many Catholic men see themselves blamed for their wives abandoning the religion and abandoning their responsibilities?

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say this justification of women's horrible behavior and their knowledge that interlopers will support them, even at their own church, for breaking up their families, is one of the major reasons for the high divorce rate, particularly for religious men.

Being a pious man means getting a kick in the teeth from the liberals in the congregation when the worst happens.

Quote from: Zeitun

Please see the big picture and know that the devil's goal here is to split you up.  Your priority must be your soul and the soul of your wife.  Even if she has the IUD removed she may still divorce you because of the real issue--control.  While you are the head of the family, in your heavy-handedness, you haven't loved her as Christ loves the Church.  You rule her with an iron rod instead of with tender mercy.  
 

It's his fault for his heavy-handedness and not loving her.

How presumptuous.

Go back a few pages and read the exchange between us.

I did do that and saw where you took a small portion of an earlier post and twisted it to fit your agenda.  You may think it was clever and that no one would catch it but TASS and Pravda were doing it before you were born.  No one cares what your agenda is, that is, IF you kept it to yourself.  But your feminist philosophy, your feminist need, to get out and subject the world to your oinks and belches that you think we want to hear (which we don't) under the guise of being 'strong' and 'having a voice' only leads people to confusion and to question what should be done as opposed to what you think should be done.  To be blunt, this was a man posting about a man's issue.  Why do you need to interject YOUR opinion?

You're an angry woman.  I can understand that since you've broadcast it in other posts.  Divorced, not annulled (strike one); admitted acquaintances with people of questionable moral substance (strike two); prone to completely non-Catholic feminist views (strike three)...  Yet you thought it would all be handy ammo when you got on this forum, thinking that by being worldly you would somehow know more than others who have been here a while and who are much more knowledgeable in terms of Catholic doctrine.  In other words, people who live it.  I cannot include myself in that but I can recognize what I am and what I'm not.  I don't think you can say the same.  Have you ever heard of TMI?  Anyone can go through your posts and see your life story, which is quite Protestant (did you ever lose that weight?  You posted about it a while ago.  Just checking...).  You've made yourself quite public and you expect the contents of your life to be sympathetic let alone Catholic?  Hilarious!

Again, your best option right now is to attain some self-awareness and leave marriage advice to people who are actually married.  Keep in mind that men are not always the problem and that the Virgin Mary did not wear a pink ribbon.

Hello Gooch!

The only advice I can give you from experience is that prayer is ultimately the most efficient means whereby one may prevail against the obduracy of those whom we love: for it is not one who endeavors to change the other person but heavenly grace that liberates our loved ones' free volition from attachment to self and other temporary things. Such grace, however, it to be sought by prayer and penance.

Self-abandonment to the will of God, devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the earnest practice of the theological and moral virtues will enable you to be an exemplar whom your wife will acknowledge if only her free will is unburdened by self-attached and self-will. I would recommend you focus your energy on your children, praying for them, teaching them by word and deed, &c., so that your wife may awaken to the sublimity and profundity of the Catholic faith in all its luminosity. Perhaps if she sees how much your love the children and how you are all jealousy for their eternal welfare and the greater good of the household, maybe she too will remember that she does not belong to herself insofar as she is now a mother: a mother is never her own, and a married woman finds her freedom in maternity, and ultimately her salvation. This is as St. Thomas teaches when he comments on how St. Paul exhorts women to bear children: "Bear children, and not kill them secretly by abortion: yet she shall be saved through childbearing, if she continue in the faith [I Tim. v. 14]" ("Filios procreare, et non eos occulte occidere per abortum. Supra II, 15: salvabitur autem per filiorum generationem, si permanserit in fide," super I Tim. cap. v. lect. 2).

I especially recommend devotion to the Miraculous Infant Jesus of Prague. Please be assured of my prayers.

Quote from: ggreg

Gooch, according to the other thread you converted around two years ago or less.

So it's not like your wife married you with a full and frank understanding of what she was letting himself in for.  You weren't from a family of 9 kids with all of your brothers and sisters having 6 or more.

From her perspective you have moved the goalposts on her.  She was at least a decade into a marriage where she thought she could use contraception and all of a suddenly she is not only dealing with a convert's zeal (famous for causing these and other problems) but a bunch of other stuff like trousers, broccoli and inoculations.

Blimey man, can't you see what has happened here?

Turn the dial back a little.  Turn the volume down.  Let her slowly absorb the new you.

With that I wish you luck and I have deals to do.

yes I have moved the goal posts on her, not sure though are you advocating I give in to her? when you say turn the volume down I believe i am doing that, but unless I give in I don't see how else I can turn the dial back...as for trading in other issues for this one that won't fly, she's into the organic food, I don' force her to go to the mass every sunday..she understands the kids will never be vaccinated again...

Yes, I am saying handle her differently to the way you have been.  Because the way you have been handling her lead to her essentially not trusting in you to provide the emotional support for a fourth child.  Let's face it, with the spacing you had, she was only going to have 1 more anyway, worst case 2 before the menopause.

Why did she get the IUD fitted?  

Moreover, I doubt you are as in tune with what she is doing and thinking as you'd like to think, or you would not be in this pickle in the first place.  Women are famous for being two faced and cold about these things.  They can compartmentalise very well and then switch from night to day.  So she might not be cheating with a flesh and blood person but do you really think she has gone without any relief for the last 18 months?  You are a 40 year old guy and know how the world turns.

Why would she?  She has an IUD she is hardly going to worry about masturbation and you are not with her 24x7.

And finally Gooch, if she's not going to leave you then why post in the first place?  Stop kidding yourself.  When a woman throws the word divorce around it means she's thought about it.

Best of luck, I have a weekend of stuff to do.

Yes, I am saying handle her differently to the way you have been.  Because the way you have been handling her lead to her essentially not trusting in you to provide the emotional support for a fourth child.  Let's face it, with the spacing you had, she was only going to have 1 more anyway, worst case 2 before the menopause.

Why did she get the IUD fitted?  Deep down what were HER reasons.

Moreover, I doubt you are as in tune with what she is doing and thinking as you'd like to think, or you would not be in this pickle in the first place.  Women are famous for being two faced and cold about these things.  They can compartmentalise very well and then switch from night to day.  So she might not be cheating with a flesh and blood person but do you really think she has gone without any relief for the last 18 months?  You are a 40 year old guy and know how the world turns.

Why would she?  She has an IUD she is hardly going to worry about masturbation and you are not with her 24x7.

And finally Gooch, if she's not going to leave you then why post in the first place?  Stop kidding yourself.  When a woman throws the word divorce around it means she's thought about it.

Best of luck, I have a weekend of stuff to do.