She doesn't have much longer to go because she's 40.  

Be nice and complaisant but simply tell her that what she's doing is obviously incompatible with your deepest beliefs (because of the abortifacient nature of the IUD) and there is nothing more to discuss.  

You might relax your position in some other less important areas of disagreement and make some concessions to her.

However, I think it's best to disregard the idea that her excuses are the reason she doesn't want another baby.

"I won't have another baby because you wouldn't accept vaccination and made me eat organic"

That's ridiculous, those aren't the reasons.  The problem really is as you say, her relatives who should be telling her to do what she's told for the sake of the marriage and children.

You're not a control freak if you truly believe vaccines cause autism, you were taking a calculated risk.  You might have been factually wrong, that doesn't make you a control freak, you were making a decision in order to avoid what you considered an unacceptable risk.

So speaks the voice of experience who understand the mind of a woman and can read them like a book :rolleyes:

How did you handle this with your wife Tele?

She's told him those are the reasons.  He posted that above.

She's drawing a line in the sand and in her mind saying, for the sake of my own self-respect, I am not prepared to compromise.  This is what happens when you try and dominate people.  Eventually they find some arbitrary basis on which to dig their heels in.  Magna Carta, French Revolution etc.

Read any modern management book and it will say the same thing.  Leadership is about picking your battles.

These people will blame a man for a woman's behavior but would lock him up and justify all sorts of calumnies against him if he tried to do something about it.

Really they don't believe in male leadership in the household.  They are just like her miserable relatives, when push comes to shove.

yes, yes, yes

But back in the real world let's focus on the problem that Gooch has and not how we would solve it in your fantasy middle-earth kingdom.

Unfortunately, none of us has a time machine.

You're the one who suggested that it was his past mistakes he can longer can rectify that are the reason for his conundrum.

"You made me eat organic, that's the final straw, no more babies for you buster, no NFP I'm implanted!"

Take that!

Quote from: gooch

Quote from: ggreg

Who wears the trousers?  ( be honest as some advice is useless or counterproductive if she is a Cosmopolitan reader.

We know she is culturally pro contraception but is she against divorce? the two don't always go hand in hand.  Would divorcing you be a personal failure in her mind?  Would her parents think she was stupid for losing you or sympathise with her for following her heart?

she's 40, we have a 8, 6, 1 yr old, she simply wants no more kids, she says she's done, she's exhausted, but she also mentioned other reasons as financial , chance of her getting sick ...as for the trousers I say she doesn't accept my authority, she's a modern woman, she says she has given in to allthe drastic changes I have forced onthe family in recent years..ie my stance agains vaccines..I won the battle, my insistence we eat organic, I won the battle..she says this is the straw that broke the camel's back..as for divorce she mentioned it the other night, then the day after  she mentioned she couldn't live without me, I think it's her desperate plea to have me consent to her wishes, we both agree that if she would divorce all our friends and family would side with her as everyone thinks my views on life are extreme

I have a friend who ended up in a similar situation, the wife divorced him, he probably could have written most of what you had written. It started with contraception. If she starts talking divorce, I'm hoping it would never come to that, but sometimes things get better and get worse again. I don't mean to scare you, but really think about how you might have to protect yourself and your children. Consider legal things. When in-laws get involved, they can influence your spouse and it can just spiral out of control. I've seen a traditional Catholic mother and also a father have nearly all parental rights taken away, and I guess I am very sensitive to that word "divorce" being used. Courts do not find favor with us in these situations.

I know this isn't what you asked about, but I really felt I should give you some friendly words of caution. I hope it all works out, and that good St. Joseph will guide you though this.

 How is he supposed to protect himself?  Any parent or married person is constantly at the mercy of the family court.

Get your parents to babysit, and, taking your wife away for a long weekend somewhere nice, tell her that you have been an asshat and apologise to her for being domineering, this will surprise her.  Explain that you care about her soul, your marriage and your children's souls and from now on are only going to focus on those things.

Win back her trust and her love.  Find someway to stop wasting time (we all waste time on the internet) and earn a bit more money AND spend more time helping her out around the home.  Every weekend ask her for a list of three to five small DIY or cleaning jobs she would like done.  May her feel like Queen of the home.  My wife is always most interested in sex when I have repaired the dryer or done something manly around the house or spent hours playing with the children.  When I've watched a movie for two hours she is less interested.

Are you kidding me? Whatever respect she has for him, will definitely be gone then.

Now he is supposed to do chores in exchange for sex? Common sense applied like apart from times if the wife is very ill, a husband shouldn't be having to gauge her interest.

How is he supposed to protect himself?  Any parent or married person is constantly at the mercy of the family court.

He can get things in writing, keep a diary, record calls, video the inside of his house but these are really nothing more than grabbing himself a lifejacket on the Titanic.  It will only help him, perhaps, when the boat has sunk.

3 little kids happiness depends on Gooch not screwing this up, so I would suggest he seriously considers whether trousers, organic carrots and MMR and all the other stuff he has dominated her with over the years, none of which are condemned under pain of moral sin by the Church are worth insisting on, rather than insisting on just the one that is.

This is where rigourism leads.  People lose perspective and beat people up over small things, big things, and nothing all with them same force.  It is a serious disease of a number of Trads.  Their own over-scrupulousness and worry is projected outwardly on the people around them they claim to love, which then has the effect of driving them away.

I have been a Trad for 30+ years and I have seen this story more times than I care to remember.  Usually the Father turning some of the children away from Tradition and thus Catholicism altogether.

And Gooch - if you do get divorced, then when your children come to visit and you tell your daughters to wear long skirts and your sons to not eat McDonalds how seriously are they going to take your message?  Don't you think they might think, given that they will be spending most of the time with your now ex-wife, "Dad, you are a real asshole, telling me what to eat and how to dress, you couldn't even keep your marriage to Mum together because you insisted on all this kooky stuff".  There is almost no chance they will keep their faith because your ex-wife will turn them against it using you as an example of how it makes people crazy and controlling.

Bernie Madoff might have some really great ideas on investment but who is going to believe them, coming from him?  His card is marked.

If MMR does cause autism the chances of contracting it are VERY VERY low otherwise science could detect it by backtesting even if the drug companies were trying to hide it.   Neither God nor the Church require you to have a PhD or indeed an opinion in biochemistry to be a father and a husband.

So what's your marital situation Tiffany?

Didn't you get divorced or live with someone or marry a foreigner and it didn't work out or something like that?