Author Topic: wife rejects natural family planning  (Read 16131 times)

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Offline Tiffany

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wife rejects natural family planning
« Reply #180 on: August 09, 2013, 10:10:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ursus
    Quote from: parentsfortruth


    I doubt any traditional priest would advise, knowing what an IUD does, to continue having relations with a wife if she's that self loathing of herself to do that.


    I got down voted before, but trust St Paul and the good Bishop on this. The unbeliving wife is sanctified by the believing husband.

    Crisis of faith, same thing. His story here is about an atheist who ended up becoming a priest after his wife died, 19:00 mark here:

    That doesn't mean we do immoral things with them.

    Offline Christopher67

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    « Reply #181 on: August 09, 2013, 10:47:59 PM »
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  • I got 2 thumbs down for my comment.....Idiots.....If either party goes into marriage not wanting to pro-create, the marriage is invalid.....Stupid!


    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #182 on: August 10, 2013, 02:01:43 AM »
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  • She did procreate. She had 3 children. It is not helpful at this stage to speculate on whether she had a long term plan.  The OP considers himself married and three children need a mother and father.  Retroactive speculation does not help.

    It is more likely his wife is tired and feels incapable of having more children.

     60 years ago nobody would have obtained an annulment if their wife got herself sterilised at 40 after 3 children.  Now they are handed out like confetti and idiots like you whisper into the ears of men who should be trying to save their marriages, not run away like cowards.

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    wife rejects natural family planning
    « Reply #183 on: August 10, 2013, 02:50:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    She did procreate. She had 3 children. It is not helpful at this stage to speculate on whether she had a long term plan.  The OP considers himself married and three children need a mother and father.  Retroactive speculation does not help.

    It is more likely his wife is tired and feels incapable of having more children.

     60 years ago nobody would have obtained an annulment if their wife got herself sterilised at 40 after 3 children.  Now they are handed out like confetti and idiots like you whisper into the ears of men who should be trying to save their marriages, not run away like cowards.


    You can't even listen to yourself. Someday you might come by this board years from now and read what you're saying and see how utterly ridiculous you sound. SHE PROCREATED ON HER OWN TERMS. Now she's choosing to leave God out of the equation completely.

    And yes, she "feels" incapable, but with some prayers from her husband, she can regain that confidence. To just say "DERP OH WELL, SHE IS JUST GOING TO POTENTIALLY KILL OUR NEXT ONE! FIRE AWAY!" No, that is not the Catholic way to handle this situation.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #184 on: August 10, 2013, 05:44:28 AM »
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  • Ggreg is right, with one or none they might look at that, not with three. It doesn't matter anyway, he is not trying to divorce and request an annulment.  


    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #185 on: August 10, 2013, 06:05:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: parentsfortruth
    Quote from: ggreg
    She did procreate. She had 3 children. It is not helpful at this stage to speculate on whether she had a long term plan.  The OP considers himself married and three children need a mother and father.  Retroactive speculation does not help.

    It is more likely his wife is tired and feels incapable of having more children.

     60 years ago nobody would have obtained an annulment if their wife got herself sterilised at 40 after 3 children.  Now they are handed out like confetti and idiots like you whisper into the ears of men who should be trying to save their marriages, not run away like cowards.


    You can't even listen to yourself. Someday you might come by this board years from now and read what you're saying and see how utterly ridiculous you sound. SHE PROCREATED ON HER OWN TERMS. Now she's choosing to leave God out of the equation completely.

    And yes, she "feels" incapable, but with some prayers from her husband, she can regain that confidence. To just say "DERP OH WELL, SHE IS JUST GOING TO POTENTIALLY KILL OUR NEXT ONE! FIRE AWAY!" No, that is not the Catholic way to handle this situation.


    PFT He wasn't justifying her not having more children. Many women do make decisions based on how they feel and it's not just with having children. Gooch has already mentioned her fatigue. Acknowledging what is behind her desire to use contraception isn't saying it's the Catholic way. It's not wrong to understand and try to help someone with whatever they feel while continuing to communicate Church teaching.

    Offline Conspiracy_Factist

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    « Reply #186 on: September 03, 2013, 09:20:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Zeitun
    gooch,

    Please read the testimony of Gloria Polo (she has received the permission of her bishop to share her story) who was struck by lightening and died after receiving third degree burns to her internal organs including ovaries, uterus, and breasts BECAUSE SHE WAS USING AN IUD.

    http://www.gloria.polo.ortiz.in/

    Hey I wanted to thank you for this link, I read it, and tried to get the wife to read it, she finally read a few pages and she seems to at least change her tune somewhat, she talked to songbird about nfp and while she's not convinced it will work she hinted to trying it and mentioned abstinence...better than hearing about  divorce.

    Offline Zeitun

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    « Reply #187 on: September 04, 2013, 09:04:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: gooch
    Quote from: Zeitun
    gooch,

    Please read the testimony of Gloria Polo (she has received the permission of her bishop to share her story) who was struck by lightening and died after receiving third degree burns to her internal organs including ovaries, uterus, and breasts BECAUSE SHE WAS USING AN IUD.

    http://www.gloria.polo.ortiz.in/

    Hey I wanted to thank you for this link, I read it, and tried to get the wife to read it, she finally read a few pages and she seems to at least change her tune somewhat, she talked to songbird about nfp and while she's not convinced it will work she hinted to trying it and mentioned abstinence...better than hearing about  divorce.


    Deo gratias!  Wonderful news.  Keep praying that Our Lord will soften her heart on this issue.

    Take care.


    Offline Julie10

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    « Reply #188 on: September 04, 2013, 10:52:57 AM »
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  • I don't have much advice to give but I will pray for you. I don't know you as I have not been on this bored long but I know about having babies.

    The thing with babies and women is that NO MAN will ever understand what having a baby does to a women. I got so sick in my pregnancy that I got to point where I cried out and I could not imagine purgatory being worse. I actually developed an allergy to my baby and had burning welts all over my body. The only thing that kept me sane was knowing it would only be 9 months of h*** and not a lifetime. Plus after the baby comes you literally don't sleep for a year and your hormones are all screwed and it is hard. No man will ever understand. I have an amazing supportive husband and he still has no clue. So the best thing you can do is show empathy for the vocation she has and all she does already and try to help out more. Ask her what scares her about more children and ask her what she needs from you to get over the fear. She says she is scared of getting sick and tell her if she does you will take care of her or hire help to care for the children. She probably is feeling alone.  Being a mom can be lonely in a way that when a women becomes a mom 99% of her life changes but for a man only like 10% so he will never understand how demanding motherhood is.  Don't blame her or lecture her about God. Just say you understand why she wouldn't want more because it is hard but she is a great mom and wife and her babies are so lucky to have her. Tell her you can't stand the thought of not being with her in heaven and you will do whatever it takes to help her get there .  I have tons of friends and the main reason they don't want more kids is because they don't get help and feel alone and sleep (sleep is the biggy.....offer to watch the kids so she can nap at least once a weekend). Start with the little things and it might help to move the big things.


    Call home from work to see if she needs help or you to pick up anything. Come home early and tell her you will watch the kids for an hour so she can have a break, Etc.
    You get more with honey than vinegar with women so show EMPATHY and be there. Work on being a supportive husband and make sure you tell her you love her and appreciate her. So many men have problems with words but it is worth it. Ask her to pray with you about it.

    Most importantly LOVE her and make sure she knows it. Don't give up.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    « Reply #189 on: September 04, 2013, 11:52:35 AM »
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  • Julie,

    The woman in the example from your post doesn't need a husband, she needs a padded room and a custodian to keep an eye on her 24/7.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    « Reply #190 on: September 04, 2013, 11:53:43 AM »
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  • Gooch,

    You're in a bad marriage if your wife refuses to put it all in God's Hands.

    I can post an excellent prayer that you could recite DAILY for her betterment and yours too!  

    Let me know if you want me post it and I will.


    Offline Nadir

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    « Reply #191 on: September 04, 2013, 11:05:07 PM »
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  • Julie, you make motherhood sound like a disease. Some of us have followed Gooch's struggles and know that he loves her and she knows it too.

    Does no man understand what it is to suffer? I think this is absolutely wrong.

    This is completely off topic, but I am reading the story of a young man of 19 who became a quadriplegic. The whole aim of his life was to go back to farming and as a result of much suffering and amazing persistence he did. Wonderful story!

    We too need persistence, in prayer especially.

    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #192 on: September 05, 2013, 02:44:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: Julie10

    Call home from work to see if she needs help or you to pick up anything. Come home early and tell her you will watch the kids for an hour so she can have a break, Etc.
    You get more with honey than vinegar with women so show EMPATHY and be there. Work on being a supportive husband and make sure you tell her you love her and appreciate her. So many men have problems with words but it is worth it. Ask her to pray with you about it.

    Most importantly LOVE her and make sure she knows it. Don't give up.


    For a person who didn't have much advice to give, this was very good advice and matches with my experience.  My wife is Russian and large families there are extremely rare, not least because life is very hard, apartments are all small, less than 800 sqft.  3 children is like, "wow, big family". 1 or 2 is the norm.

    Society is very patriarchal and 97% of Russian women have to do ALL of the cooking, cleaning, child rearing and often work as well because the husband does not make enough money. Women are typically very stoic and hard working there.  Men tend to be spoilt and behave like children well into their 20s, not unlike Egyptian or Saudi men.  Since women outnumber men, men have more options if they get divorced.

    There are only three groups of people who break this rule.  Coming from a large family myself I am very observant and interested and I obviously deal with the reaction of Russians finding out we have 6 children and are not planning on stopping.

    New Russians and the emerging middle classes who can afford to hire domestic help.  Commonly better off Russians will have larger families.

    Religious families who live in the deep countryside and have large houses.  I.e. where the husband and wife are devoutly Orthodox and both attend Church and are knowledgeable about the Orthodox faith.  Lots of Church attending Russians are ignorant of even the basics and treat religion and icons like a lucky horseshoe to be kissed to bring them "luck" in love, health or finances.

    The third and final class are women married to husbands who are supportive.  A few men there somehow break the chain and chip in with domestic duties, washing up, vacumning the home, taking the children to school or park, (Russians don't have gardens so parks are a daily feature) ironing, hanging out the washing, carrying a small baby when it is crying rather than leaving that, to the women). When my wife's friends visit and stay with us they always congratulate her on finding me because I basically pull my weight and they have never seen it in Russian society.

    Russian men can be very romantic and chivalrous.  They will open car doors when a woman gets in or out of a car, never allow a woman to pay for a meal, never forget to buy flowers on a birthday or women's day and will even meet their wife with flowers are the airport when she returns from somewhere.  But watch a married man in his 30s change a diaper out there or play with a child and you will laugh.  They are like those characters in the movie, 3 men and a baby, the difference being that they are married fathers, not single childless men.

    It might be a bit late for Gooch to do much about it, because his wife is 40 and her experiences are probably hard coded, but for a lot of men just starting out on married life, selling that Xbox on eBay and investing 30 mins a day into doing the washing up, cleaning the kitchen floor, sewing badges on their scouting uniforms, cleaning windows, taking out the trash (before you are asked), cleaning the toilet bowls in the house, doing a laundry load will result in two things.

    1.  Your wife won't feel under pressure and worn out to the same extent.  So when she is low the temptation to think she can solve it by not having more children won't be as strong.

    2.  Her female friends will make comments and compare you to their husbands who don't do as much, so she will understand that with that extra support a larger family is not going to drive her into an early grave.

    I know a complete secular couple who got married at the same time as us.  The husband was a British man in his mid 30s who did not want any children and had done well in his career, a climber. The wife was a Slovakian auPair who had come from poverty and wanted a man who could provide.  He had the personality of a carrot, what most people would term a "real stiff". Jana was I believe his first proper girlfriend.

    For the first year or two he steadfastly refused to have children and Jana used to cry on my wife's shoulder and ask her advice as to how to win him around.  Eventually she stopped taking the pill and got pregnant, though at the time she insisted that 2 was her absolute maximum and after that she would stop. He was mad about it at first but when the baby came he completely changed and flipped to the other extreme and became some sort of super Dad character. Last time I saw him, in 2002, he was spending Saturday making a beautiful job laying out stone tiles on their kitchen floor.  He applied the same focus to being a father and a husband as to his career basically.

    Now they have four children.  Still both completely secular.  They just like kids.

    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #193 on: September 05, 2013, 06:27:33 AM »
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  • Well done Zeitun & Songbird!  :applause:

    Offline inprincipio

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    « Reply #194 on: September 05, 2013, 07:58:18 AM »
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  • What does the real Catholic Church teach about the primary end of marriage?  That is the question.

    Amen quippe dico vobis donec transeat caelum et terra iota unum aut unus apex non praeteribit a lege donec omnia fiant  (For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled. )

     

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