Author Topic: Why I started Cathinfo (Read 5903 times)

Matthew · « **on:** January 09, 2007, 10:16:50 PM »

Reading this post reminded me why Fisheaters is NOT the be-all and end-all for "how to be a good Traditional Catholic" -- and why we need a Catholic forum like Cathinfo.com that deals with how to live a good Catholic LIFE. For my response to this, see the next post.

Originally Posted by CaroleK:
I know that I've been put on the spot more than once by "good Catholics" who accuse me of the use of contraception because I have only one child who is 11 years old. After a decade of struggling with infertility it is still very painful to have to explain to some busybody that I didn't chose this.

Vox responded:
You were put on the spot by some arrogant busy-body who needed to be slapped hard across the face for not minding her own business. You don't owe ANYONE but God, your priest, and your husband ANY explanation for anything. If I were you, I wouldn't feel a need to "have to explain" anything to Miss Beeswax; I'd look at her like she was a total idiot.

Originally Posted by CaroleK:
Then there's the skirt issue. And the fact that we own televisions. And that we listen to rock music. Oh yeah and both my husband and I have been married (civil marriages) before and received declarations of nullity. Though I had someone question that as well saying that DoN from "modernist tribunals" are "worthless". The list of horrible modernist things that I do is pretty long. Though I think it is amazing when I look back at myself 11 or 12 years ago and compare it to where I am now.

To which Vox responded:
The skirt issue is silly blathering, most of us own TVs, and I, the person who runs what I am pretty sure is the biggest trad Catholic forum on the internet, have "For Those About to Rock" threads, complete with the Stones, White Zombie, Ozzy, and Bjork. WE set the tone, and it's up to US to outnumber the puritan types. If, in the future, you are called to not wear pants (for whatever reason), give up your TV, not listen to rock and roll, and embrace wearing hair shirts, then power to ya. But BE WHO YOU ARE here (and everywhere), and know that any decent person knows he has no right to judge the state of your soul or your intentions (assuming you've not made them manifest). Besides which, even if all the rigorists were right about their pet issues, the Church is a hospital for sinners, not a social club for the perfect.

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** January 09, 2007, 10:23:32 PM »

Does it not seem like Vox is positively encouraging CaroleK (a newbie to Tradition) to stick with her rock music, TV, and other worldly ways?

I would never be rude to anyone -- but I would also never admit something that isn't true. If someone asked me about TV, I would tell them the truth about it. I would not enjoy it at all if I knew they loved TV, but I'd have to give them the truth.

It seems like Vox is in actual error here. She either A) thinks TV and rock music is neutral, or B) Thinks they are virtuous, or more virtuous than living without them! Neither of those things is true.

Whether either are SINFUL is another story -- but few things in life are "just as good". To give a SMALL example -- which is better? A burger or an order of fries? It depends on what your goals are. Economy? Go with what's cheaper. Energy? Go with the burger. And so forth.

What Vox (and others) miss is that IF YOU LIVE LIKE A WORLDLING, you will inherit ALL OF A WORLDLING'S PROBLEMS.

If a Traditional Catholic goes on the same kind of vacations, has both parents working, buys tons of material things, gives each of their 3 kids their own bedroom with a TV, lets them hang around other kids their age, sends them to public school, buys them a cell phone (insert other *shudder* suburban practices here), etc. -- you can bet those kids will have EVERY BIT AS MANY problems (psychological, body image problems, depression, ѕυιcιdє, moral confusion, immorality, atheism, etc.) that all the OTHER average worldly kids have today.

I mean think about it -- the alternative would be "Become a traditional Catholic, and you magically get exempted from many of life's problems." That is obviously absurd.

However, if you become a traditional Catholic and actually follow the Church's wisdom, you WILL escape many of life's problems! You are following the owner's manual that God wrote for human beings. Of course things will work better!

I used to listen to Gangsta rap and other "pop" music, watch TV, and I was much more materialistic and worldly than I am today. I wasn't always interested in and serious about my faith. But wherever you start, you need to HEAD FOR THE GOAL which is objectively there. Perfection is a set place, it's not different for each person. Each person has to do different things to GET there, but perfection means being perfect. We need to acknowledge that some things (listening to Classical music) are more perfect than others (listening to Ozzy Ozzbourne).

It's frustrating that Vox doesn't have the wisdom to see that.

In Christ,

Matthew

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** January 09, 2007, 10:37:52 PM »

Another post I found (same thread as post #1 above):

By Rosamund:
It seems as though a lot of young folks reacted against the abuses of Vatican II by trying to go back to what they perceived of as a Catholic golden age, and in doing so they tried to bring back a limited time period and cultural milieu to unnatural life. But although true Catholic teaching is always the same, it is not always expressed the same way in every time and place, and it is this true and legitimate diversity of the Church that is missing from their ideal. I wasn't aware, for instance, that all or even most pre-conciliar Catholic women in America wore skirts down to their ankles and were too focused on having babies ASAP to bother with higher education.

Maybe we should start a forum for us fence-sitters who are too reactionary for the typical Novus Ordo parish and too -- well, too whatever we are for Traditionalism.

Matthew · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2007, 10:40:57 PM »

Rosamund makes a good point that Catholicism isn't 1950's America, or 1700's France, etc.

HOWEVER --

She fails to be the philosopher and ask, Which is better for human nature, modesty, the woman's soul, etc.? Pants, or skirts/dresses?

Which is more in line with God's design for woman, and which is more likely to be conducive to her (and her husband's) happiness -- a degree and a career, or motherhood?

See I would answer, "Women should aspire to either the convent, or to start a family. And she should wear skirts/dresses in public." but it's not because I want to pretend to a past culture, or deny I'm in 2007 America. It's because I've looked at the issue with the eyes of St. Thomas and the Catholic Church, and looked at it from a "which is better?" perspective. In short, I'm being a philosopher.

The funny thing is, many people who HAVEN'T been taught good philosophy, who CLAIM to not be philosophers are actually accepting a philosophy nonetheless -- but it's one they've soaked up (brainwash-style) from TV, the world, etc.

"I don't need no philosophy" is still a philosophy!

In Christ,

Matthew

MaterDominici · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2007, 10:46:15 PM »

I don't think we can stress enough that an honest Catholic should move past "sin vs. no sin" as the only cue to how one strives for perfection. Most leisure activities, for example, are not inherently sinful, but the more we turn off the TV, skip the sports event, and avoid the distracting vacation in favor of anything spiritual, the more Christ-like we can become.

clare · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2007, 06:42:18 AM »

This is the stuff scruples are made of!

I like burgers from time to time! I don't live on them. I eat other stuff too.

Eating fast food now and again does not mean that the eater of it never appreciates a proper meal.

It seems wrong to me to impose non-obligatory sacrifices on people. And it seems a little "Holier than thou" too.

:devil2:

Clare.

Trinity · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2007, 09:05:55 AM »

I thought about this overnight, and what came to me was what Jesus said about being perfect like our Father is perfect. I don't see that on the table anywhere. It's like the forgotten line in the Bible, and I'm as guilty as anyone. I really don't spend time (as I ought) plotting and planning how to get perfect. I don't spend time thinking about it at all, anymore. I used to, back when I was heavily influenced by reading the saints. I really think the entire concept would come as a shock to modern Americans. I'll bet they don't even think Jesus was serious. It's far easier to say "Nobody's perfect, but..."

MaterDominici · « **Reply #7 on:** January 10, 2007, 12:00:21 PM »

Quote from: Clare

This is the stuff scruples are made of!

I like burgers from time to time! I don't live on them. I eat other stuff too.

Eating fast food now and again does not mean that the eater of it never appreciates a proper meal.

It seems wrong to me to impose non-obligatory sacrifices on people. And it seems a little "Holier than thou" too.

:devil2:

Clare.

Impose is the wrong word. Promoting better behavior and actions is not imposing them. Following your example, when I grab fast food, I might enjoy my meal, but I'm certainly not going to exclaim to all of my friends and family that they should do the same. But, when I find a recipe which is healthy, tasty, and easy to make, I most certainly share it and encourage others to make and eat it as well. This is a far cry from imposing it on them.

Trinity · « **Reply #8 on:** January 10, 2007, 12:24:38 PM »

Unfortunately the word "impose" no longer means force of any kind. These days it MEANS example. You so much as mention Jesus' name around some people and you are "imposing" your religion on them. Now that I put this and that together, I begin to understand why you can't talk to people anymore. They are not like little children at all, are they? They are belligerent holders of "rights", which means they get to shoot down/shut out/cast out anyone different from them. What I consider sharing, they consider an imposition. Words fail me. This will have to do... :cussing:

MaterDominici · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2007, 12:32:57 PM »

Quote from: Trinity

I thought about this overnight, and what came to me was what Jesus said about being perfect like our Father is perfect. I don't see that on the table anywhere. It's like the forgotten line in the Bible, and I'm as guilty as anyone. I really don't spend time (as I ought) plotting and planning how to get perfect. I don't spend time thinking about it at all, anymore. I used to, back when I was heavily influenced by reading the saints. I really think the entire concept would come as a shock to modern Americans. I'll bet they don't even think Jesus was serious. It's far easier to say "Nobody's perfect, but..."

Good post, Trinity. Matthew says again and again that we should all read more lives of the saints--and I don't think it's just because his paycheck comes from TAN Books. :) When you read how perfect they were and yet how much they strived to be more and more perfect, it's really hard to not want to do more yourself. I've also been impressed at the records of behavior the saints drew out of those around them. St. Vincent Ferrer had a large group of people who traveled with him simply to make public acts of penance in each of the towns where he preached. Not just men, but women and children who would publically discipline themselves in reparation for their past sins and the sins of others. This group, of course, grew larger and larger with each town in which he preached and inspired people to live in a manner more pleasing to God. It's hard to read such things and still think, "but life wouldn't be worth living if I couldn't enjoy _______."

Trinity · « **Reply #10 on:** January 10, 2007, 12:50:17 PM »

Books on the saints are hard come by these days. I've lent out and lost most of mine, and public libraries no longer carry them. I expect it's time for me to invest some money in it again. It really is like living in another world when you immerse yourself in their asperations. A whole lot better world, at that.

Dawn · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2007, 02:26:46 PM »

I am reading about Archbishop Lefebvre right now. Another good one is Blessed Anna Marie Taigi. She lived in the world, 8 children, husband with a bad temper, mother lived with her and was mouthy (hmm, :scratchchin:) wonder why I like her.
She too had to deal with dressing differently than the times. Her husband wanted her to be flashy, she did not, he relented finally. It is too sad to say that people today have no idea of what it really means to be a Catholic. I am grateful for all that you do Matthew.
I found it was more often the case that many of the threads where very scandalous. Maybe there is an 18 or older warning, but come on, to read those things puts everybody's mind in the gutter.
I know of a few young men who were given the boot there for stating that those things they said were good were not proper to talk about in mixed company.
Problem is that save sites like this will they ever hear the truth preached from the pulpit? No, only if they hang out with extremists like those SSPXers or Sedes.

Trinity · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2007, 02:44:12 PM »

Taigi is a good one. I've lost that book. John Marie Vianney and Don Bosco are also good ones. I've lost those, too. Margaret of Costello (sp), ditto. The really big ones like Teresa of Avila, Catherine of Sienna, John of the Cross, Thomas Aquinas, I can't really follow very well. Francis of Asissi has been done to death. Benedict and Scholastica would be good to read. Any other suggestions?

Dawn · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2007, 08:01:01 PM »

Since I have been homeschooling I use alot of books by Mary Fayann Windatt. The are available from Tan Publishing and they tell the stories pretty well. I hate to admit but, I do my reading in bed. If the book is to deep I fall deep ASLEEP. What slays me is the people like St. Therese of Avila were not super educated people, still the great thoughts that God inspired them to have. Me, it is enough to plan dinner.
One thing that I noticed about poor St. Francisl is that he has been hijacked by the liberal hippie groups.

Trinity · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2007, 08:50:46 PM »

That's probably why I'm worn out of St Francis. I've read some badly written books and watched some poor movies about him.

I have a dictionary of secular saints, but the stories are just short, shorts, so you can't really get into it or get a grasp of their journey--draw some meat out of it. I went through my "collection" today and all I have left (out of dozens of books) are Padre Pio, St Faustina's diary, Augustine's confessions and Imitation of Christ. Sad. And since the price of books isn't low I want to find the really good ones. St Thomas More would be good, I think.