Author Topic: why gripes on Orchestras?  (Read 1500 times)

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Offline jman123

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why gripes on Orchestras?
« on: December 18, 2014, 08:33:02 PM »
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  • What exactly is wrong with women playing  in orchestras? Some people here are debating this. What is wrong? Its an art. It is not inherently manly. There are female virtuosos. They have God Given talent. What should a lady do who happens to possess a great talent in say violin???

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #1 on: December 18, 2014, 09:37:16 PM »
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  • Read the actual thread.  Trad Guy pointed out that all too many " men" in thes orchestras sure very much " fruity-tooty".  He also thought that they should be employed in more practical employment as a regular day job.  He is absolutely right that it does approach sinfulness for women to spend their best years for motherhood sitting and playing musical instruments.  Others disagreed.  Little of the actual dispute. Was concerning the orchestra.


    Offline Marlelar

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #2 on: December 18, 2014, 09:42:45 PM »
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  • Philistines.


    Offline jman123

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #3 on: December 18, 2014, 09:58:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    Read the actual thread.  Trad Guy pointed out that all too many " men" in thes orchestras sure very much " fruity-tooty".  He also thought that they should be employed in more practical employment as a regular day job.  He is absolutely right that it does approach sinfulness for women to spend their best years for motherhood sitting and playing musical instruments.  Others disagreed.  Little of the actual dispute. Was concerning the orchestra.


    I see

    Offline PereJoseph

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #4 on: December 18, 2014, 10:09:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: jman123
    What exactly is wrong with women playing  in orchestras? Some people here are debating this. What is wrong? Its an art. It is not inherently manly. There are female virtuosos. They have God Given talent. What should a lady do who happens to possess a great talent in say violin???


    There's a different between women playing instruments and women playing in orchestras.  I don't think this issue was brought up in the other thread, actually.  In the other thread, TraditionalGuy said that he thought male professional musicians in orchestras tended to be effeminate.  I think that there is some truth to that, though I haven't said so in the thread.  There are even certain instruments that are well known as the "gay instruments," or so I recall hearing from some musician once.  Maybe it was on the local classical radio station.  

    I know that the great pianist Vladimir Horowitz said, "There are three kinds of pianists : Jewish pianists, homosexual pianists, and bad pianists."  He met the first two qualifications.  Of course, the classical music environment isn't quite so bad as the theatre or other "high art" professions, but I gather that it still attracts sodomites for whatever reason.

    As for women being involved -- like I said, I don't think that was yet brought up.   Personally, I think that women should be highly encouraged to excel at a musical instrument.  It's a noble occupation that brings joy to the home, not to mention an appreciation of culture and beauty -- or, in the lower classes, it typically helps carry traditional stories and dances to the next generation.  But I don't think that means they should play in orchestras.  Traditionally, women were not entirely welcome in orchestras, even in recent memory.  Orchestras travel a lot and require a lot of time outside the home.  It's not a fitting occupation for a woman, who should love to be at home and has duties there.


    Offline ClarkSmith

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #5 on: December 19, 2014, 12:56:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: jman123
    What exactly is wrong with women playing  in orchestras? Some people here are debating this. What is wrong? Its an art. It is not inherently manly. There are female virtuosos. They have God Given talent. What should a lady do who happens to possess a great talent in say violin???


    It takes more than talent to be in an orchestra. The musicians dedicate their entire lives to music.  It takes hours and hours of practice. They spend more hours at  rehearsals.  They don't get paid very much and they are constantly criticized. It's probably the reason the  profession is ranked as one of the least satisfying jobs.

    A person with an amazing talent should  do solo work or be in a quartet to let  their talent be showcased.

    Offline jman123

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #6 on: December 19, 2014, 02:21:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: PereJoseph
    Quote from: jman123
    What exactly is wrong with women playing  in orchestras? Some people here are debating this. What is wrong? Its an art. It is not inherently manly. There are female virtuosos. They have God Given talent. What should a lady do who happens to possess a great talent in say violin???


    There's a different between women playing instruments and women playing in orchestras.  I don't think this issue was brought up in the other thread, actually.  In the other thread, TraditionalGuy said that he thought male professional musicians in orchestras tended to be effeminate.  I think that there is some truth to that, though I haven't said so in the thread.  There are even certain instruments that are well known as the "gay instruments," or so I recall hearing from some musician once.  Maybe it was on the local classical radio station.  

    I know that the great pianist Vladimir Horowitz said, "There are three kinds of pianists : Jewish pianists, homosexual pianists, and bad pianists."  He met the first two qualifications.  Of course, the classical music environment isn't quite so bad as the theatre or other "high art" professions, but I gather that it still attracts sodomites for whatever reason.

    As for women being involved -- like I said, I don't think that was yet brought up.   Personally, I think that women should be highly encouraged to excel at a musical instrument.  It's a noble occupation that brings joy to the home, not to mention an appreciation of culture and beauty -- or, in the lower classes, it typically helps carry traditional stories and dances to the next generation.  But I don't think that means they should play in orchestras.  Traditionally, women were not entirely welcome in orchestras, even in recent memory.  Orchestras travel a lot and require a lot of time outside the home.  It's not a fitting occupation for a woman, who should love to be at home and has duties there.


    You make a good point. Is playing in an orchestra more appropriate for a man to win his daily bread ?

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #7 on: December 19, 2014, 05:22:57 PM »
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  • Many musicians in professional orchestras make over six figures, likely by virtue of their playing ability and skill. They could also seek professorships at colleges if they have their doctorate, which most of them probably have.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca


    Offline PG

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #8 on: December 19, 2014, 05:41:30 PM »
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  • Clarksmith - Although you are only hinting at this by accident.  I would say that it takes less talent to be in an orchestra.  It also looks really boring in my opinion.  I much prefer solo on through quartet music.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #9 on: December 19, 2014, 07:09:36 PM »
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  • Both take a lot of skill, but orchestras take a lot more for requiring the need to blend sound and one's individual style, which isn't easy for some.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #10 on: December 19, 2014, 11:24:13 PM »
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  • Well I thank you Capt. McQuigg and PereJoseph for defending what I actually said to what everyone read in that "dreaded" post I made i.e. Trad Guy's a barbarian, Trad Guy hates classical music, Trad Guy hates musical instruments, Trad Guy hates life, Trad Guy hates whatever else we can come up with, etc. I have no problem with orchestras or men and women playing musical instruments, which I pointed out in the thread that everyone freaked out over. I do not have a problem with weeding out and finding the best musicians with talent to play in an orchestra. I do have a problem with this obsession with orchestras and classical music, which is true of some people of this website. There are other genres of music which are just as good, and no I do not mean modern music which is pornographic, but I mean folk music and military marches. I also have a problem with men and women obsessing over music and orchestras which takes away practical knowledge in the man's case and motherhood in the case of the woman.


    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #11 on: December 19, 2014, 11:56:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: PereJoseph
    Of course, the classical music environment isn't quite so bad as the theatre or other "high art" professions, but I gather that it still attracts sodomites for whatever reason.


    Art, literature, the theatre, music and ballet have been perverted for quite some time so it would be immoral to do such things.

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #12 on: December 20, 2014, 12:07:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
    Art, literature, the theatre, music and ballet have been perverted for quite some time so it would be immoral to do such things.


    Perverted meaning being taken over by the Left of course.

    Offline ggreg

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    why gripes on Orchestras?
    « Reply #13 on: December 20, 2014, 01:42:25 AM »
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  • Perhaps society should make orchestras illegal and just turn up at concert halls and listen to a CD, or stay at home and listen so they can spend more time bringing up their families?  They can be making soap or planning the next home-schooling lesson on trial by combat and kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

    For new musical compositions we can just use computers with artificial intelligence to synthesise the music.


     

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