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Author Topic: Why do so Many Protestants who are Against So-Called gαy Marriage, Also  (Read 1406 times)

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Offline Truth is Eternal

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Support other Mortal Sins such as Adultery?
"I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."


Offline Charlemagne

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  • Good question. I'd also like to know why so many of them accuse Catholics of idolatry, when they worship "Old Glory" (a piece of cloth) and have no qualms erecting nativity sets at Christmastime (which are as much statues as those of the saints are).
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine


    Offline Truth is Eternal

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  • Quote from: Charlemagne
    Good question. I'd also like to know why so many of them accuse Catholics of idolatry, when they worship "Old Glory" (a piece of cloth) and have no qualms erecting nativity sets at Christmastime (which are as much statues as those of the saints are).


    It is getting so weird in society, certain Protestants no longer want to be referred to as Protestants because they know it makes them look bad because as Protestants they are protesting.
    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."

    Offline Arvinger

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  • Protestants often misuse Mt 5:31-32 and Mt 19:8-9, claiming that divorce and remarriage is allowed in case of adultery of one of the spouses. Of course, careful exegesis of the text refutes this interpretation. Our Lord spoke about a situation when the relationship itself was adulterous, so the couple was not really married - this supports the Catholic teaching on anullments (which, unfortunately, were practically turned by the Novus Ordo into a Catholic divorce).

    Here are some interesting articles on that and results of a dialogue of a Catholic apologist with GotQuestions (a major Protestant webpage). This is a classic example of disastrous results of sola scriptura with rejection of Church authority to interpret the Sacred Scripture.
    http://shamelesspopery.com/does-the-bible-permit-divorce-in-the-case-of-adultery/  
    http://shamelesspopery.com/gotquestions-gets-angry/
    http://shamelesspopery.com/my-response-to-gotquestions/
    http://shamelesspopery.com/gotquestions-a-negative-development/

    Offline clare

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  • Sodomy is worse than adultery, although they're both mortal of course.

    Crisis Magazine

    Quote
    Human Nature and Aquinas’ Taxonomy of sɛҳuąƖ Sins
    ...
    The most obviously unnatural sin is “bestiality,” i.e., sɛҳuąƖ intercourse with animals – a sin which offers an affront to the human species. Next in seriousness is sodomy, which is an affront to the natural relationship between male and female.

    In third place are unnatural coital relationships between men and women – for example, anal intercourse, coitus interruptus, or other contraceptive measures – all of which are sinful because they do not observe “the right manner of copulation.”  In his Summa contra gentiles, Aquinas compares such relationships to homicide: “After the sin of homicide whereby a human nature already in existence is destroyed, this type of sin appears to take next place, for by it the generation of human nature is precluded.” By taking measures to prevent a human life from emerging naturally, such non-procreative sex constitutes an action against the potential human soul that might result.

    The least serious “unnatural” sɛҳuąƖ sin is masturbation, in which pleasure is intentionally sought in isolation from natural social relationships.  Aquinas is careful to distinguish this from “nocturnal pollution” or other unintentional emission of semen, which is not sinful. In our era, we would include pornography, as a means to excite prurient sɛҳuąƖity, as connected with this sin.

    Incest, which is borderline “natural,” if it involves male-female intercourse, is nevertheless a grievous sin since it flouts the natural relationships proper to people connected by consanguinity or affinity.

    As regards normal male-female relationships, the most serious sin is of course rape, in which sɛҳuąƖ sinfulness is compounded with a serious sin of injustice, forced intercourse with someone who is unwilling.

    Next in seriousness is sacrilege, for example, intercourse with a nun or priest who has taken a vow of chastity.  Because of the vow, this sin involves a direct offense to God; and if it is accompanied by rape, the seriousness is compounded.

    Less serious is adultery, which is consensual, but is combined with the sin of injustice, since at least one of the parties is joined lawfully to another in marriage.

    Finally, Aquinas makes a distinction between two of the least serious sɛҳuąƖ sins – “seduction” and “fornication.” In making this distinction he is in part taking into account the customs in his era, in which (as also in our own time) a father at a wedding will “give away” the bride.  The legal code then favored marriage, on condition of parental consent and consent of the bride; in the absence of such consent, civil penalties for seduction were prescribed.

    Fornication, i.e. what we call “consensual sex” is defined by Aquinas as intercourse with a woman who is not a virgin, and in which no external aggravating circuмstances are relevant – e.g., the use of force, or the use of contraceptives.  This act is sinful because it militates against the social welfare of possible progeny who might result – leading to the possibility of children without a father to aid them with moral and intellectual guidance into adulthood.
    ...


    Offline TNVOL

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  • Speaking as someone who once was a Protestant and now attempts to show family and friends that Paul states divorce and remarriage is just as wrong as sodomy, I can give you several reasons why they either celebrate it, condone it, or look the other way. I've literally had a family member tell me they knew what the Bible said about remarriage but God told them to marry this divorced person. They will respond  to the tune of "How can two people who are so in happy in love be wrong in God's eyes?" It would cause them to have to possibly be seen as an hardliner who does love as God commanded. They simply believe once you are saved you are always saved, unless of course you are gαy. They never knew when Jesus mentioned adultery he was referring to those in second marriages, I get that response more than any other but it doesn't matter because God wants me to be happy so its ok. Lastly they really have no clue about anything in the Bible except the end times are coming and if Jesus were here today he would be a proud flag waving neo-con.

    The Baptist church I grew up in used to have the biggest youth group in my area. It was not uncommon to have 100 teenagers on a Wednesday night. Now almost 20 years later they are lucky to have 10, in that same age range, on a Sunday morning. I'm conflicted to whether or not that makes me happy. I guess I'm not, I mean its not as if these people started going to the Catholic church. Lastly I remember when I was a teenager, our youth pastors put us through a program called "True Love Waits." Now I couldn't tell you anything that was said during those weeks but if you had told me that sex before marriage, divorce and remarriage were as bad as sodomy and that I was putting my eternal life at stake for doing either then I would have remembered that, but to say those things would have been mean and to be seen as mean is the most grave sin of all in today's society.

    Offline BTNYC

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  • Quote from: TNVOL
    Speaking as someone who once was a Protestant and now attempts to show family and friends that Paul states divorce and remarriage is just as wrong as sodomy, I can give you several reasons why they either celebrate it, condone it, or look the other way. I've literally had a family member tell me they knew what the Bible said about remarriage but God told them to marry this divorced person. They will respond  to the tune of "How can two people who are so in happy in love be wrong in God's eyes?" It would cause them to have to possibly be seen as an hardliner who does love as God commanded. They simply believe once you are saved you are always saved, unless of course you are gαy. They never knew when Jesus mentioned adultery he was referring to those in second marriages, I get that response more than any other but it doesn't matter because God wants me to be happy so its ok. Lastly they really have no clue about anything in the Bible except the end times are coming and if Jesus were here today he would be a proud flag waving neo-con.

    The Baptist church I grew up in used to have the biggest youth group in my area. It was not uncommon to have 100 teenagers on a Wednesday night. Now almost 20 years later they are lucky to have 10, in that same age range, on a Sunday morning. I'm conflicted to whether or not that makes me happy. I guess I'm not, I mean its not as if these people started going to the Catholic church. Lastly I remember when I was a teenager, our youth pastors put us through a program called "True Love Waits." Now I couldn't tell you anything that was said during those weeks but if you had told me that sex before marriage, divorce and remarriage were as bad as sodomy and that I was putting my eternal life at stake for doing either then I would have remembered that, but to say those things would have been mean and to be seen as mean is the most grave sin of all in today's society.


    Not that I wish to detract from an otherwise great post (and a very valuable and insightful witness, as it is coming from someone who converted from Protestantism), but I do feel it incuмbent upon me to take issue with the seeming assertion made above that "sex before marriage... (is) as bad as sodomy."

    Fornication, as serious and grave a sin as it is, is not the affront to the Natural Law that Sodomy is. Sodomy, not fornication (or even adultery), is one of the Four Sins that Cry to Heaven for Vengeance.

    As per St. Thomas Aquinas:

    “However, they are called passions of ignominy because they are not worthy of being named, according to that passage in Ephesians (5:12): ‘For the things that are done by them in secret, it is a shame even to speak of.’ For if the sins of the flesh are commonly censurable because they lead man to that which is bestial in him, much more so is the sin against nature, by which man debases himself lower than even his animal nature.” (St. Thomas Aquinas, Super Epistulas Sancti Pauli Ad Romanum I, 26, pp. 27f)

    Offline TKGS

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  • Quote from: TNVOL
    The Baptist church I grew up in used to have the biggest youth group in my area. It was not uncommon to have 100 teenagers on a Wednesday night. Now almost 20 years later they are lucky to have 10, in that same age range, on a Sunday morning. I'm conflicted to whether or not that makes me happy.


    I think the only reason to be genuinely happy about this drop in the Baptist youth group would be if those 90 kids had abandoned error and were now assisting at the True Mass on Sundays.



    Offline TNVOL

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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: TNVOL
    The Baptist church I grew up in used to have the biggest youth group in my area. It was not uncommon to have 100 teenagers on a Wednesday night. Now almost 20 years later they are lucky to have 10, in that same age range, on a Sunday morning. I'm conflicted to whether or not that makes me happy.


    I think the only reason to be genuinely happy about this drop in the Baptist youth group would be if those 90 kids had abandoned error and were now assisting at the True Mass on Sundays.



    I'm sorry I don't believe I was clear. I wasn't trying to say that only 10 of those 100 teenagers from almost 20 years ago were still attending this church. In fact I do not know of a single person from that group from twenty years ago that still attends this church, and I'm not aware of any of them who have become Catholic. Lastly what I was trying to say was that this church currently only has around 10 teenagers, on a good day, that attend on Sunday mornings and its not as if this area has undergone a population decrease. I was shocked to hear this when my mom told me a couple weeks ago, the reason being they held a fundraiser for the church youth group at a local restaurant and only one teenager showed up to help. I seriously doubt the church will be around in 20 years simply due to its aging membership and 10 years ago this was the largest church in this rural county.

    Offline Sigismund

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  • Protestants don't see remarriage after a divorce as adultery if the other party committed adultery during the marriage.  They conclude this because they misunderstand n the relevant verse from the Gospel of St. Matthew.  They are wrong, of course, but they genuinely see it that way.  So, in their confused minds, there is no contradiction between opposing ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ unions and their view of remarriage.  This assumes we are talking about conservative or Evangelical Protestants.  The liberal ones don't care at all anyway.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir