Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent  (Read 2089 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cassini

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3832
  • Reputation: +2869/-274
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2023, 10:36:42 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I looked up Abbot Gueranger' THE LITURGICAL YEAR, vol. 5 LENT written between 1841-1874 and it is similar to Pax Vobis's post above;

    During  the  two  thousand  and  more  years,  which preceded  the  deluge,  men  had  no  other  food  than  the fruits  of  the  earth,  and  these  were  obtained  only  by the  toil  of  hard  labour.  But  when  God,  as  we  have already  observed,  mercifully  shortened  man's  life that  so  he  might  have  less  time  and  power  for  sin, He  permitted  him  to  eat  the  flesh  of  animals,  as an  additional  nourishment  in  that  state  of  deteriorated strength.  It  was  then,  also,  that  Noah,  guided by  a  divine  inspiration,  extracted  the  juice  of  the grape,  which  thus  formed  a  second  stay  for  human debility.
    Fasting,  then,  is  abstinence  from  such  nourishments as  these,  which  were  permitted  for  the  support of  bodily  strength.  And  firstly,  it  consists  in abstinence  from  flesh-meat,  because  this  food  was given  to  man  by  God  out  of  condescension  to  his weakness,  and  not  as  one  absolutely  essential  for  the maintenance  of  life.  Its  privation,  greater  or  less according  to  the  regulations  of  the  Church,  is  essential to  the  very  notion  of  fasting.  Thus,  whilst  in  many countries  the  use  of  eggs,  milk-meats,  and  even dripping  and  lard,  is  tolerated,  the  abstinence  from flesh-meat  is  everywhere  maintained,  as  being  essential to  fasting.  For  many  centuries  eggs  and  milk-meats  were  not  allowed,  because  they  come  under the  class  of  animal  food;  even  to  this  day  they  are forbidden  in  the  eastern  Churches,  and  are  allowed in  the  Latin  Church  only  by  virtue  of  an  annual dispensation.  The  precept  of  abstaining  from  flesh- meat  is  so  essential  to  Lent,  that  even  on  Sundays, when  the  fasting  is  interrupted,  abstinence  is  an obligation,  binding  even  on  those  who  are  dispensed from  the  fasts  of  the  week,  unless  there  be  a  special dispensation  granted  for  eating  meat  on  the  Sundays.
    In  the  early  ages  of  Christianity,  fasting  included also  abstinence  from  wine,  as  we  learn  from  St.  Cyril of  Jerusalem,1  St.  Basil,2  St.  John  Chrysostom,3 Theophilus  of  Alexandria,4  and  others.  In  the  west, this  custom  soon  fell  into  disuse.  The  eastern Christians  kept  it  up  much  longer,  but  even  with them  it  has  ceased  to  be  considered  as  obligatory.
    Lastly,  fasting  includes  the  depriving  ourselves of  some  portion  of  our  ordinary  food,  inasmuch  as  it allows  only  one  meal  during  the  day.  Though  the modifications  introduced  from  age  to  age  in  the discipline  of  Lent  are  very  numerous,  yet  the  points we  have  here  mentioned  belong  to  the  very  essence of  fasting,  as  is  evident  from  the  universal  practice  of the  Church.

    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3832
    • Reputation: +2869/-274
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #16 on: February 26, 2023, 10:56:37 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • And it didn't stop with fish:

    Hunting,  too,  was  for  many  ages  considered  as forbidden  during  Lent :  the  spirit  of  the  holy  season was  too  sacred  to  admit  such  exciting  and  noisy  sport. Pope  St.  Nicholas  L,  in  the  ninth  century,  forbade it  the  Bulgarians,1  who  had  been  recently  converted to  the  Christian  faith.  Even  so  late  as  the  thirteenth century,  we  find  St.  Raymund  of  Pegnafort  teaching that  those  who,  during  Lent,  take  part  in  the  chase, if  it  be  accompanied  by  certain  circuмstances  which he  specifies,  cannot  be  excused  from  sin.  This prohibition  has  long  since  been  a  dead  letter;  but St.  Charles  Borromeo,  in  one  of  his  Synods,  re- established it  in  his  province  of  Milan.

    But  we  cannot  be  surprised  that  hunting  should be  forbidden  during  Lent,  when  we  remember  that, in  those  Christian  times,  war  itself,  which  is  some- times so  necessary  for  the  welfare  of  a  nation,  was suspended  during  this  holy  season.  In  the  fourth century,  we  have  the  emperor  Constantine  the  Great enacting  that  no  military  exercises  should  be  allowed on  Sundays  and  Fridays,  out  of  respect  to  our  Lord Jesus  Christ,  who  suffered  and  rose  again  on  these two  days,  as  also  in  order  not  to  disturb  the  peace and  repose  needed  for  the  due  celebration  of  such sublime  mysteries.  The  discipline  of  the  Latin Church,  in  the  ninth  century,  enforced  everywhere  the suspension  of  war  during  the  whole  of  Lent,  except in  cases  of  necessity


    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4987
    • Reputation: +1929/-244
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #17 on: February 26, 2023, 11:53:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I do think there is some symbolism with Noah, the Ark and fish surviving the Flood on their own.  Let's not forget that the holy name of "Maria" comes from the latin meaning "seas/oceans".  And God used the seas/oceans to purify the land, which was filled with sin.  So it stands to reason that water/fish would also purify/cleanse a body during a fast. 


    Also, after the flood was the first time that God allowed mankind to eat flesh from animals, no?  Before the Flood, men who followed God's laws ate a vegan diet.  They did not kill animals for food.  They followed the 'Garden of Eden' rules, where God gave man "seeds" to be thy food. 

    29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.  (Genesis 1:29)

    It's not stated in the bible, but I think many saints talk about how after the Flood, God made all manner of changes to men and the earth. 
    1) shortened man's lifespan from hundreds of years to only 1 hundred, at max.
    2) due to man's weakened nature, God allowed man to eat animals for strength.  He also told Noah how to make wine, also for strength.
    3) nature/weather and the animal kingdom were at odds with mankind, whereas before the Flood, were much more calm and docile.

    I think the Church Fathers talk about how the evil men in the days of Noah fell away from God and started eating meat and killing animals.  This increased their aggression, they started wars and this caused all manner of chaos and suffering.

    St Thomas also talks about how eating flesh meat and animal products can cause an increase of energy and possibilties for "carnal desires".  Whereas fish does not produce the same effects.  In other words, if you eat a lot of flesh meat and animal products (i.e. eggs, cheese, etc), this increases testosterone, which increases your libido.

    Since the point of Lent is to reflect, pray, and subject one's body, then it stands to reason that this is why the Church limits intake of meat and animal products.  It's easier to mediate and reflect when you're not fighting temptations of the flesh.  Thus, eating fish (since we still need protein) is a great substitute for Lent and any time of fasting.

    Could the shortened lifespan of man have anything to do with no longer having a water canopy over the earth, thereby allowing the sun's rays to do damage to living creatures sooner and with greater effect?  (For that matter, could that be where different skin tones came from, viz. the more sunlight in a region of the earth, the more melanin needed to be able to survive?  Pale-skinned people would have burnt up in Africa, and only survivors reproduce.)

    Just a thought.

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12162
    • Reputation: +7681/-2345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #18 on: February 27, 2023, 08:58:33 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    Could the shortened lifespan of man have anything to do with no longer having a water canopy over the earth, thereby allowing the sun's rays to do damage to living creatures sooner and with greater effect?
    Absolutely.  Also, i've read from saints who described that one of the punishments/changes that God enacted post-Flood was that nature/animal kingdom was hostile towards mankind, whereas before it was not.  For example, pre-Flood, there was no rainfall, as we know it.  The earth was watered by geysers/mists of water that sprang up at certain times.  There were no storms or anything like this because the firmament was still in place.  The earth was like a tropical paradise, not too hot or not too cold, all year round, which not much variation in temperature/weather, etc.


    Also, there had never been earthquakes, flooding, tornados, hurricanes, etc.  The first time mankind saw rainfall was when God sent the Great Flood.  Then, at the peak of this chastisement, you had all of nature revolt/attack mankind as a punishment.  When the "waters of the deep" sprang forth and the firmament's water rained down, this was mixed with earthquakes, tornados, etc.

    And, post-flood, nature is still "in turmoil" against mankind, as a reminder of God's punishment of the Flood.

    Then with the animal kingdom, Noah was able to gather "2 animals of each kind" fairly easily because animals were much more docile.  Genesis says that God gave mankind to eat the "plants with seed-bearing fruits" and everything else was for the animals.  So, being that mankind didn't eat meat pre-Flood, it makes sense that animals didn't kill each other either.  Animals were also "vegan".  And animals were also friendly with humans...much more so than they are today.  So when Noah gathered the animals into the Ark, they would've obeyed him as if he were a friend.

    Then you have the insect world.  Some saints have said that ANOTHER punishment for the Flood was that the insect world also attacked humans (i.e. flies, bees, mosquitoes, etc).  Whereas before, they didn't.  When you think about how certain insects eat farmlands and destroy crops or gardens...this probably never happened pre-Flood.  Insects only ate certain plants, animals ate certain plants, and humans ate seed-bearing plants.  Everything in nature was in order, was organized, was calm and peaceful (probably not as organized/peaceful as in the Garden of Eden, but MUCH more peaceful than now).

    It seems that after Adam's sin in the Garden, God punished humans with chaos of human nature (i.e. concupiscence, death) but nature/animals were still orderly.  But after the times of Noah, when mankind had corrupted earth/animals (i.e. some say with genetic experiments and unholy satanic rites), then God punished humans with chaos of weather/animals, in addition to shortening man's life and making our health more fragile.

    Pre and post Flood is a stark difference in humanity and the world.  It's fascinating to think about "what was" vs "now".  Even when God sends us punishments (i.e. tornados, mass snowfalls, rainstorms, etc) these are still beautiful events, which artists capture pictures of, all over the world.  And even the most deadly of animals is still beautiful and awe-inspiring in their strength and abilities.  And, of course, beer/wine are one of God's most perfect creations. :laugh1:

    Offline Soubirous

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2109
    • Reputation: +1662/-44
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #19 on: February 27, 2023, 01:16:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Question, if anyone could please clarify: 

    Genesis 4:2 says that Abel was a shepherd, and Genesis 4:4 says that Abel offered the firstlings to the Lord. Does that mean that Abel's flock was only for sacrificial purposes, or was Abel also a carnivore?
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus


    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12162
    • Reputation: +7681/-2345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #20 on: February 27, 2023, 01:48:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There are many reasons to have a flock of sheep, even if you don't eat them -- clothing, fertilization of crops, cultivation of land, etc

    Offline Soubirous

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2109
    • Reputation: +1662/-44
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #21 on: February 27, 2023, 06:50:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There are many reasons to have a flock of sheep, even if you don't eat them -- clothing, fertilization of crops, cultivation of land, etc

    Ah, yes. That does make sense now.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus