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Author Topic: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent  (Read 2080 times)

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Offline cassini

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Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
« on: February 22, 2023, 11:22:05 AM »
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  • Got this from a website.

    Catholics are among the only Christians who freely don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent. In fact, you know you are in a Catholic town when, only during Lent, every single restaurant advertises one item on their menu: fish! I have even noticed how major fast-food chains point out on their fliers the date of Ash Wednesday! Suddenly everyone cares about the liturgical seasons of the Church!

    So why is it that the Church instructs Catholics to abstain from meat on Fridays (as well as Ash Wednesday and Good Friday), but gives the “thumbs-up” for Catholics to eat fish? Sounds fishy to me!

    Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays
    First of all we must ask the question, “why Friday?” The USCCB gives a succinct explanation:

    Catholic peoples from time immemorial have set apart Friday for special penitential observance by which they gladly suffer with Christ that they may one day be glorified with Him. This is the heart of the tradition of abstinence from meat on Friday where that tradition has been observed in the holy Catholic Church.

    Since it is believed Jesus Christ suffered and died on the cross on a Friday, Christians from the very beginning have set aside that day to unite their sufferings to Jesus. This led the Church to recognize every Friday as a “Good Friday” where Christians can remember Christ’s passion by offering up a specific type of penance. For much of the Church’s history meat was singled out as a worthy sacrifice on account of its association with feasts and celebrations. In most ancient cultures meat was considered a delicacy and the “fattened calf” was not slaughtered unless there was something to celebrate. Since Fridays were thought of as a day of penance and mortification, eating meat on a Friday to “celebrate” the death of Christ didn’t seem right. (As an aside, some bishops have chosen to lift the ban when Saint Patrick’s Day falls on a Friday during Lent, as it is considered a “solemnity” for many Irish Catholics.)

    MEDIEVAL FEAST

    Read more:
    “No red meat Lent” too hard? Here’s how the medievals did it

    But why is fish not considered “meat”?
    According to the USCCB, the laws of the Church classify the abstinence from “land animals.”

    Abstinence laws consider that meat comes only from animals such as chickens, cows, sheep or pigs — all of which live on land. Birds are also considered meat.

    Fish, on the other hand, are not in that same classification.

    Fish are a different category of animal.  Salt and freshwater species of fish, amphibians, reptiles (cold-blooded animals) and shellfish are permitted.

    In Latin the word used to describe what kind of “meat” is not permitted on Fridays is carnis, and specifically relates to “animal flesh” and never included fish as part of the definition. Additionally, fish in these cultures was not considered a “celebratory” meal and was more of a penance to eat.

    Our current culture is much different as meat is generally considered the cheaper option on the menu and no longer has the cultural connection to celebrations. This is why many people are confused about the regulations, especially those who love to eat fish and do not consider it a penance.

    In the end, the Church’s intention is to encourage the faithful to offer up a sacrifice to God that comes from the heart and unites one’s suffering to that of Christ on the cross. Meat is given as the very basic penance, while the purpose of the regulation should always be kept in mind. For example, it does not necessarily give a person the license to eat a lobster dinner every Friday in Lent. The whole point is to make a sacrifice that draws a person closer to Christ, who out of love for us made the ultimate sacrifice a person can make.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #1 on: February 22, 2023, 11:28:54 AM »
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  • Interesting. When I read it, something else occurred to me.

    When God caused the great Flood to eliminate sinful humans from the Earth, all those 'meat' animals died with them. However, the FISH creatures did not all die. So, if we put two and two together we find another reason why fish is allowed and meat is not. How come no saint figured this out.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #2 on: February 22, 2023, 12:51:41 PM »
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  • Interesting. When I read it, something else occurred to me.

    When God caused the great Flood to eliminate sinful humans from the Earth, all those 'meat' animals died with them. However, the FISH creatures did not all die. So, if we put two and two together we find another reason why fish is allowed and meat is not. How come no saint figured this out.

    Very interesting.  Thanks.  I never connected the land animals with the Flood, but the connection is definitely there.  Classification of stuff is somewhat arbitrary.  Is a fish in the same category as a cow?  Depends on your definitions of the categories.

    Of course, a Prot attack against the Church I've seen was that the Pope allowed fish because some wealthy fish merchants paid him off.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #3 on: February 22, 2023, 01:05:11 PM »
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  • Of course, a Prot attack against the Church I've seen was that the Pope allowed fish because some wealthy fish merchants paid him off.

    And here I thought protestant apologetics were frequently uneducated and low-IQ. (I was right!)
    I think I just became dumber after reading that particular gem of Protestant propaganda -- it's that dumb.

    Why wouldn't the Catholic Church have reverted to the proper abstinence at least a couple generations after that "crooked pope" who received a suitcase full of 50's was long dead?

    So one weak pope, with an unseemly taste for luxury, accepted a bribe and now the Church founded by Christ goes off the rails for 10 centuries *and never recovers* until a bloody revolution in the 16th Century? That doesn't even make SENSE from a big picture, cosmic, God's perspective standpoint. Read Scripture -- that's NOT how God has worked in the past!

    Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. Apparently the Protestants don't know their Scripture, since they don't know God very well.

    Give me a break!
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #4 on: February 22, 2023, 03:02:18 PM »
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  • Some more liturgically-oriented non-Catholics, such as Anglicans, often abstain from meat on Fridays, and I have heard of many African American families serving fish for dinner on Friday, not for any religious reason, but because "that's just what they do".  I asked an AA coworker about this once, and she said no, it's not a religious thing, it's just a black thing.  Go figure.


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #5 on: February 22, 2023, 08:34:17 PM »
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  • Could the ancient symbol by which Christians would recognise each other bear any relation to the questions posed on this thread?



    Why do Christians use the fish symbol?
    JESUS FISH SYMBOL CHRISTIAN



    Philip Kosloski - published on 05/22/17 
    Bumper stickers weren't the first place where the Ichthys was used.
    Fish symbols on car bumpers are common these days. Sometimes the outline of the fish contains a cross within it and is commonly known to indicate someone’s Christian faith. While it may seem like a recent invention, the symbol can be traced back all the way to the beginning of Christianity.


    The “Jesus fish” as it is more commonly known today, was first used by Christians in the 2nd century. In Greek it is known as the Ichthys, the word that simply means “fish.” But the Greek letters — ΙΧΘΥΣ — can also be an acronym, as they are the initials of the words in the Greek phrase that translates “Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior.”

    JESUS FISH SYMBOL CHRISTIANShutterstock
    Fish were a common part of Mediterranean life and religion, so for Christians under persecution, the Ichthys became a covert sign to identify their beliefs. The fish also has deep roots in the New Testament. Jesus called fishermen to be his apostles and explained how he would make them “fishers of men.


    Fish also symbolically became tied to the early Christian celebration of the Eucharist. Jesus’ miracle of multiplying the loaves and fish was seen as a prefigurement of the Eucharistic bread at Mass.

    The Ichthys was a common symbol in the Christian catacombs and is still used by many Christians today.


    https://aleteia.org/2017/05/22/why-do-christians-use-the-fish-symbol/



    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #6 on: February 23, 2023, 05:19:38 PM »
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  • Interesting. When I read it, something else occurred to me.

    When God caused the great Flood to eliminate sinful humans from the Earth, all those 'meat' animals died with them. However, the FISH creatures did not all die. So, if we put two and two together we find another reason why fish is allowed and meat is not. How come no saint figured this out.
    Which bible states that all meat animals died?  Mine says Noah was instructed to take "of all clean beasts take seven and seven, the male and the female" that's 14 of each cows, sheep, horses, camels deer etc plus "but of the beasts that are unclean two and two, the male and the female.  Of the fowls also of the air seven and seven the male and the female" that too is 14 of each ducks,  turkeys, chickens, geese, etc.
    Seems like they had plenty of meat available for eight people after they disembarked.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #7 on: February 24, 2023, 04:52:54 AM »
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  • Which bible states that all meat animals died?  Mine says Noah was instructed to take "of all clean beasts take seven and seven, the male and the female" that's 14 of each cows, sheep, horses, camels deer etc plus "but of the beasts that are unclean two and two, the male and the female.  Of the fowls also of the air seven and seven the male and the female" that too is 14 of each ducks,  turkeys, chickens, geese, etc.
    Seems like they had plenty of meat available for eight people after they disembarked.

    You got me there Miseremini, I forgot about that. But surely Noah told his kids not to kill them as there were only two of each left to continue their KIND but plenty of fish. Then again maybe they were told they could kill a few dinosaurs. That would explain their extinction.

    OK, another guess; because God shared loaves and FISH rather than loaves and chicken, fillet steak or even lamb, which He could have. Could it have anything to do with the Apostles who were fishermen and the Lord filled their nets?

    And fish is certainly not an inferior flesh than meat. A friend of mine has salmon darns three times a week for dinner and I don't think he even goes to Mass on Sunday. Ask any doctor and he or she will tell you fish is better for health than meat. Maybe we are told to eat fish on Friday to keep us healthy?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #8 on: February 24, 2023, 06:59:04 AM »
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  • And here I thought protestant apologetics were frequently uneducated and low-IQ. (I was right!)
    I think I just became dumber after reading that particular gem of Protestant propaganda -- it's that dumb.

    Right.  I saw this somewhere on a video made by some Prots (though the Catholic Church wasn't the main subject).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #9 on: February 24, 2023, 07:00:56 AM »
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  • Which bible states that all meat animals died?  Mine says Noah was instructed to take "of all clean beasts take seven and seven, the male and the female" that's 14 of each cows, sheep, horses, camels deer etc plus "but of the beasts that are unclean two and two, the male and the female.  Of the fowls also of the air seven and seven the male and the female" that too is 14 of each ducks,  turkeys, chickens, geese, etc.
    Seems like they had plenty of meat available for eight people after they disembarked.

    Obviously he means that all land animals died except those on the ark, whereas a lot of fish survived without having been on the ark, the same way that all human beings died ... except Noah and his family.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #10 on: February 24, 2023, 07:18:31 AM »
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  • You got me there Miseremini, I forgot about that. But surely Noah told his kids not to kill them as there were only two of each left to continue their KIND but plenty of fish. Then again maybe they were told they could kill a few dinosaurs. That would explain their extinction.

    OK, another guess; because God shared loaves and FISH rather than loaves and chicken, fillet steak or even lamb, which He could have. Could it have anything to do with the Apostles who were fishermen and the Lord filled their nets?

    And fish is certainly not an inferior flesh than meat. A friend of mine has salmon darns three times a week for dinner and I don't think he even goes to Mass on Sunday. Ask any doctor and he or she will tell you fish is better for health than meat. Maybe we are told to eat fish on Friday to keep us healthy?

    "Darnes" (it takes an "e") --- learned a new word today.  At first I thought it was a typo.

    Fish is a great food, great source of protein, but it goes bad quickly, and oftentimes, it smells bad when it's cooking.  I love salmon patties but I have to open the kitchen window while they're cooking, and let the house air out afterwards.  It's also hard to cook from scratch at home, so I normally either get frozen battered fillets and bake them, or go to a seafood restaurant.  Part of the genius of many a fast-food enterprise is to take something that is either difficult, or messy, or both, to make at home --- hamburgers, French fries, pizza, fried chicken, ice cream, and so on --- and serve it in a way that is easily accessible, fairly economical, and doesn't require home preparation.


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #11 on: February 24, 2023, 07:35:23 AM »
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  • "Darnes" (it takes an "e") --- learned a new word today.  At first I thought it was a typo.

    Fish is a great food, great source of protein, but it goes bad quickly, and oftentimes, it smells bad when it's cooking.  I love salmon patties but I have to open the kitchen window while they're cooking, and let the house air out afterwards.  It's also hard to cook from scratch at home, so I normally either get frozen battered fillets and bake them, or go to a seafood restaurant.  Part of the genius of many a fast-food enterprise is to take something that is either difficult, or messy, or both, to make at home --- hamburgers, French fries, pizza, fried chicken, ice cream, and so on --- and serve it in a way that is easily accessible, fairly economical, and doesn't require home preparation.

    I initially wrote darnes but up came a red underlining and darns seemed to be recommended instead. The same has happened as I write this reply. I thought it was one of those English Englishes and American Englishes differences. In English English words like rumour, favour are written rumor and flavor in American English. This causes many on each side thinking they cannot spell. So thanks SimpleMan for calling mine a typo.

    What I often eat on a Friday is a salmon darn wrapped in puff pastry with cream and dill sauce. Put in oven for 30 minutes and its more of a treat than Friday fish. We can get them in supermarkets or you can make them yourself.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #12 on: February 24, 2023, 08:48:22 AM »
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  • Quote
    And fish is certainly not an inferior flesh than meat. A friend of mine has salmon darns three times a week for dinner and I don't think he even goes to Mass on Sunday. Ask any doctor and he or she will tell you fish is better for health than meat. Maybe we are told to eat fish on Friday to keep us healthy?
    I do think there is some symbolism with Noah, the Ark and fish surviving the Flood on their own.  Let's not forget that the holy name of "Maria" comes from the latin meaning "seas/oceans".  And God used the seas/oceans to purify the land, which was filled with sin.  So it stands to reason that water/fish would also purify/cleanse a body during a fast. 


    Also, after the flood was the first time that God allowed mankind to eat flesh from animals, no?  Before the Flood, men who followed God's laws ate a vegan diet.  They did not kill animals for food.  They followed the 'Garden of Eden' rules, where God gave man "seeds" to be thy food. 

    29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.  (Genesis 1:29)

    It's not stated in the bible, but I think many saints talk about how after the Flood, God made all manner of changes to men and the earth. 
    1) shortened man's lifespan from hundreds of years to only 1 hundred, at max.
    2) due to man's weakened nature, God allowed man to eat animals for strength.  He also told Noah how to make wine, also for strength.
    3) nature/weather and the animal kingdom were at odds with mankind, whereas before the Flood, were much more calm and docile.

    I think the Church Fathers talk about how the evil men in the days of Noah fell away from God and started eating meat and killing animals.  This increased their aggression, they started wars and this caused all manner of chaos and suffering.

    St Thomas also talks about how eating flesh meat and animal products can cause an increase of energy and possibilties for "carnal desires".  Whereas fish does not produce the same effects.  In other words, if you eat a lot of flesh meat and animal products (i.e. eggs, cheese, etc), this increases testosterone, which increases your libido.

    Since the point of Lent is to reflect, pray, and subject one's body, then it stands to reason that this is why the Church limits intake of meat and animal products.  It's easier to mediate and reflect when you're not fighting temptations of the flesh.  Thus, eating fish (since we still need protein) is a great substitute for Lent and any time of fasting.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #13 on: February 24, 2023, 10:39:37 AM »
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  • Of course, a Prot attack against the Church I've seen was that the Pope allowed fish because some wealthy fish merchants paid him off.
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    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Why Catholics don’t eat meat on Fridays during Lent
    « Reply #14 on: February 24, 2023, 11:14:18 AM »
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  • Re Prots disparaging Catholics, there's the Lutheran myth of the origin of lutefisk, a Norwegian "delicacy" that might be familiar to older folks here from Minnesota or Wisconsin:

    Quote
    Who do we have to blame for Lutefisk?
    There are a bunch of stories that float around, but my favorite one says Lutefisk is St. Patrick’s fault
    Once upon a time, Viking raiders were pillaging Ireland (as Vikings do), and St. Patrick thought he’d teach those pesky Vikings a lesson. 
    So he attempted to poison the Vikings by covering their fish stores with lye.  That’ll teach ’em. 
    When the Vikings discovered the fish, they dug in (didn’t die) and declared it a delicacy. 
    It’s a good story, until I ruin it for you and tell you St. Patrick died centuries before the Vikings started plundering northern Europe.

    As for fish during Lent in the Catholic parts of Europe post-1500s, it would have been stockfish (salt cod). Before refrigeration and efficient transportation, fresh fish wasn't usually available inland year-round anyway. Even on the coasts, setting your boats out in late winter weather probably didn't work too well either.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus