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Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: InfiniteFaith on September 07, 2015, 06:14:26 PM

Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 07, 2015, 06:14:26 PM
Christ states that we should love our neighbor as ourselves. But who are our neighbors? The family living next door to your house? Other Baptized, true believing Catholics? All Baptized believing Christians? Everyone in general?
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: Arvinger on September 07, 2015, 06:24:24 PM
St. Paul teaches us to do good to all people, not only believers.

Galatians 6:10 "Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers."

Likewise, St. Peter teaches to show respect to all people.

1 Peter 2:17 "Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor."

This of course ties in with universal salvific will of God (1 Timothy 4:10, 1 John 2:2, Hebrews 2:9) - we should show love to everyone, sicne God is willing to save every single person in our way.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 07, 2015, 07:30:55 PM
Quote from: Arvinger
St. Paul teaches us to do good to all people, not only believers.

Galatians 6:10 "Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers."

Likewise, St. Peter teaches to show respect to all people.

1 Peter 2:17 "Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor."

This of course ties in with universal salvific will of God (1 Timothy 4:10, 1 John 2:2, Hebrews 2:9) - we should show love to everyone, sicne God is willing to save every single person in our way.


I am going to play the skeptic role and bring about some questions concerning  the verses you quoted. Note how in Galatians it says "especially to..the family of believers".

In this verse, and and in the others, there seems to be a distinction between believer and non believer on some level. Yes I think we should love non believers. It says that we should love even our enemies. But do we love them as our neighbors and ourselves? I'm not so sure this question has been answered. I ask because it seems that if we treat every single person the same then would that not lead to communism? Communism being, of course, against Catholic teaching.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: Matto on September 07, 2015, 07:35:20 PM
I think Bishop Williamson's recent letter is relevant to this thread Here is a link to it. (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/ELEISON-COMMENTS-Sept-4-AD2015-CDXXV-425)
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: TKGS on September 07, 2015, 07:57:11 PM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Christ states that we should love our neighbor as ourselves. But who are our neighbors? The family living next door to your house? Other Baptized, true believing Catholics? All Baptized believing Christians? Everyone in general?


Obviously, the parable of the Good Samaritan doesn't apply here....
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: TKGS on September 08, 2015, 06:12:23 AM
Quote from: poche
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Christ states that we should love our neighbor as ourselves. But who are our neighbors? The family living next door to your house? Other Baptized, true believing Catholics? All Baptized believing Christians? Everyone in general?


Obviously, the parable of the Good Samaritan doesn't apply here....

Why not?


It's call sarcasm.  Providing the dumbest answer one possibly can to an incredibly dumb question.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: clare on September 08, 2015, 06:39:15 AM
Catechism of Trent on the Fifth Commandment (http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/trent/tcomm05.htm)
Quote
Love Of Neighbour Inculcated

The mandatory part of this Commandment, as Christ our Lord enjoins, requires that we have peace with all men. Interpreting the Commandment He says: If therefore thou offer thy gift at the altar, and there thou remember that thy brother hath anything against thee; leave there thy offering before the altar, and go first to be reconciled to thy brother, and then coming thou shalt offer thy gift, etc.

Charity To All Commanded

In explaining this admonition, the pastor should show that it inculcates the duty of charity towards all without exception. In his instruction on the precept he should exhort the faithful as much as possible to the practice of this virtue, since it is especially included in this precept. For since hatred is clearly forbidden by this Commandment, as whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer, it follows, as an evident consequence, that the Commandment also inculcates charity and love.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: Stubborn on September 08, 2015, 06:55:37 AM
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: poche
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Christ states that we should love our neighbor as ourselves. But who are our neighbors? The family living next door to your house? Other Baptized, true believing Catholics? All Baptized believing Christians? Everyone in general?


Obviously, the parable of the Good Samaritan doesn't apply here....

Why not?


It's call sarcasm.  Providing the dumbest answer one possibly can to an incredibly dumb question.


Yes exactly.

The exact question of this thread was put to Our Lord and Our Lord answered it. Read Luke 10:29-37
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 08, 2015, 08:25:15 AM
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: poche
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Christ states that we should love our neighbor as ourselves. But who are our neighbors? The family living next door to your house? Other Baptized, true believing Catholics? All Baptized believing Christians? Everyone in general?


Obviously, the parable of the Good Samaritan doesn't apply here....

Why not?


It's call sarcasm.  Providing the dumbest answer one possibly can to an incredibly dumb question.


It's something I have been wondering about for a long time.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: Dolores on September 08, 2015, 10:04:38 AM
As others have pointed out, Our Lord Himself answered this question directly:

Quote from: St. Luke 10:29-36
But he willing to justify himself, said to Jesus: And who is my neighbour? And Jesus answering, said: A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, who also stripped him, and having wounded him went away, leaving him half dead. And it chanced, that a certain priest went down the same way: and seeing him, passed by. In like manner also a Levite, when he was near the place and saw him, passed by. But a certain Samaritan being on his journey, came near him; and seeing him, was moved with compassion. And going up to him, bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine: and setting him upon his own beast, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And the next day he took out two pence, and gave to the host, and said: Take care of him; and whatsoever thou shalt spend over and above, I, at my return, will repay thee. Which of these three, in thy opinion, was neighbour to him that fell among the robbers? But he said: He that shewed mercy to him. And Jesus said to him: Go, and do thou in like manner.


The Haydock Commentary for this parable also has some insight:

Quote
Ver. 29. Neighbour? It appears this was a celebrated controversy among the doctors of the law; some probably affirming, that the Jews only were so; while others maintained that their friends alone were their neighbours. (Maldonatus)

Ver. 30. A certain man, &c. This some would have to be a history: others rather judge it spoken by way of parable, to teach us to perform offices of charity towards all men without exception. (Witham) --- Were we to adhere to the mere words of this parable, it would seem to follow, that only those who do us good were to be esteemed our neighbours; for the context seems to intimate, that the Levite and the priest were not neighbours to the man who fell among the robbers, because they did not assist him. But according to the opinion of most fathers, the intent of this parable is the shew, that every person who has need of our assistance is our neighbour. (Maldonatus)
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 08, 2015, 10:20:58 AM
Quote from: Dolores
As others have pointed out, Our Lord Himself answered this question directly:

Quote from: St. Luke 10:29-36
But he willing to justify himself, said to Jesus: And who is my neighbour? And Jesus answering, said: A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, who also stripped him, and having wounded him went away, leaving him half dead. And it chanced, that a certain priest went down the same way: and seeing him, passed by. In like manner also a Levite, when he was near the place and saw him, passed by. But a certain Samaritan being on his journey, came near him; and seeing him, was moved with compassion. And going up to him, bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine: and setting him upon his own beast, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And the next day he took out two pence, and gave to the host, and said: Take care of him; and whatsoever thou shalt spend over and above, I, at my return, will repay thee. Which of these three, in thy opinion, was neighbour to him that fell among the robbers? But he said: He that shewed mercy to him. And Jesus said to him: Go, and do thou in like manner.


The Haydock Commentary for this parable also has some insight:

Quote
Ver. 29. Neighbour? It appears this was a celebrated controversy among the doctors of the law; some probably affirming, that the Jews only were so; while others maintained that their friends alone were their neighbours. (Maldonatus)

Ver. 30. A certain man, &c. This some would have to be a history: others rather judge it spoken by way of parable, to teach us to perform offices of charity towards all men without exception. (Witham) --- Were we to adhere to the mere words of this parable, it would seem to follow, that only those who do us good were to be esteemed our neighbours; for the context seems to intimate, that the Levite and the priest were not neighbours to the man who fell among the robbers, because they did not assist him. But according to the opinion of most fathers, the intent of this parable is the shew, that every person who has need of our assistance is our neighbour. (Maldonatus)


I never once disputed making acts of charity towards all people. I was questioning whether or not our love for others should be the same for all people or different depending on who the person is. Obviously we must love the Lord above ourselves and our neighbors. That being one example of there being an order of how we should love. Someone posted a link to Bishop Williamson's opinion on there being an order to charity earlier in this thread. This was the answer to my question. It's not a stupid question as some are indicating. Thomas Aquinas himself addressed this sort of question.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: jen51 on September 08, 2015, 10:28:26 AM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith


I never once disputed making acts of charity towards all people. I was questioning whether or not our love for others should be the same for all people or different depending on who the person is. Obviously we must love the Lord above ourselves and our neighbors. That being one example of there being an order of how we should love. Someone posted a link to Bishop Williamson's opinion on there being an order to charity earlier in this thread. This was the answer to my question. It's not a stupid question as some are indicating. Thomas Aquinas himself addressed this sort of question.


If that's what you wanted to know, then why isn't that the question you asked in the OP? You asked "who is our neighbor?" And that is the answer you got.  :confused1:
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 08, 2015, 11:24:59 AM
Quote from: jen51
Quote from: InfiniteFaith


I never once disputed making acts of charity towards all people. I was questioning whether or not our love for others should be the same for all people or different depending on who the person is. Obviously we must love the Lord above ourselves and our neighbors. That being one example of there being an order of how we should love. Someone posted a link to Bishop Williamson's opinion on there being an order to charity earlier in this thread. This was the answer to my question. It's not a stupid question as some are indicating. Thomas Aquinas himself addressed this sort of question.


If that's what you wanted to know, then why isn't that the question you asked in the OP? You asked "who is our neighbor?" And that is the answer you got.  :confused1:


I wanted to know who our neighbors are so that I would know whether or not I should love all people equally or differently. Knowing who our neighbors are is sufficient enough to determine the rest. If everyone is our neighbor then we must love everyone equally. If only some people are our neighbor then charity should be practiced discriminately. It appears that some people in this thread thought that everyone is our neighbor. While Bishop Williamson's letter expresses the contrary.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 08, 2015, 12:31:59 PM
This thread just makes me want to marry an Asian woman that much more.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: clare on September 08, 2015, 12:42:12 PM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
I wanted to know who our neighbors are so that I would know whether or not I should love all people equally or differently. Knowing who our neighbors are is sufficient enough to determine the rest. If everyone is our neighbor then we must love everyone equally. If only some people are our neighbor then charity should be practiced discriminately. It appears that some people in this thread thought that everyone is our neighbor. While Bishop Williamson's letter expresses the contrary.

Well, that doesn't follow. Why should loving everyone mean loving them all equally? No one does that.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 08, 2015, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: clare
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
I wanted to know who our neighbors are so that I would know whether or not I should love all people equally or differently. Knowing who our neighbors are is sufficient enough to determine the rest. If everyone is our neighbor then we must love everyone equally. If only some people are our neighbor then charity should be practiced discriminately. It appears that some people in this thread thought that everyone is our neighbor. While Bishop Williamson's letter expresses the contrary.

Well, that doesn't follow. Why should loving everyone mean loving them all equally? No one does that.


Generally speaking...liberals claim to.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: clare on September 08, 2015, 01:07:21 PM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: clare
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
I wanted to know who our neighbors are so that I would know whether or not I should love all people equally or differently. Knowing who our neighbors are is sufficient enough to determine the rest. If everyone is our neighbor then we must love everyone equally. If only some people are our neighbor then charity should be practiced discriminately. It appears that some people in this thread thought that everyone is our neighbor. While Bishop Williamson's letter expresses the contrary.

Well, that doesn't follow. Why should loving everyone mean loving them all equally? No one does that.

Generally speaking...liberals claim to.

And we have to love them as well!
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 08, 2015, 01:31:06 PM
Quote from: clare
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: clare
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
I wanted to know who our neighbors are so that I would know whether or not I should love all people equally or differently. Knowing who our neighbors are is sufficient enough to determine the rest. If everyone is our neighbor then we must love everyone equally. If only some people are our neighbor then charity should be practiced discriminately. It appears that some people in this thread thought that everyone is our neighbor. While Bishop Williamson's letter expresses the contrary.

Well, that doesn't follow. Why should loving everyone mean loving them all equally? No one does that.

Generally speaking...liberals claim to.

And we have to love them as well!


I agree
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: Capt McQuigg on September 08, 2015, 02:46:27 PM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
This thread just makes me want to marry an Asian woman that much more.


Make sure that she's a Traditional Catholic woman who understands her role as a Catholic wife and mother.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: TKGS on September 08, 2015, 03:43:19 PM
You really need to learn the Catholic faith rather than whatever it is you've learned.

Not even Jesus loved everyone the same, though he loved everyone perfectly.  Love, in this respect, is not an emotion; it is an act of the will.  You love your wife differently than you love any other person in the world.  You love your brothers and sisters (biological brothers and sisters, that is) differently than other people.  You love your children differently than other anyone else.  You love your relations in a different way than your immediate family.  You love your friends and acquaintances differently than you love the stranger that you do not know.  But you have love for all.

Who is your neighbor?  All of the people I identified above (which means everyone) is your neighbor, but you do not have the same kind of love for all of them.  On the other hand, you must have the love of all people for God's sake in your heart.  You must even have love for an armed intruder that you kill in self-defense, which, ultimately, means that you have sorrow that you were forced to kill him and sorrow that he died during the act of committing a mortal sin and likely condemned himself to hell for eternity.  

It seems that your concept of "love" is merely a sappy, emotional love--one that is often more lust than love.  If what replies you have seen on this topic make you desire to marry an "Asian woman", then you are likely beyond understanding until you mature a little more.  You seem to have the emotional state of a sixteen year old boy.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: TKGS on September 08, 2015, 03:45:00 PM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: clare
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
I wanted to know who our neighbors are so that I would know whether or not I should love all people equally or differently. Knowing who our neighbors are is sufficient enough to determine the rest. If everyone is our neighbor then we must love everyone equally. If only some people are our neighbor then charity should be practiced discriminately. It appears that some people in this thread thought that everyone is our neighbor. While Bishop Williamson's letter expresses the contrary.

Well, that doesn't follow. Why should loving everyone mean loving them all equally? No one does that.


Generally speaking...liberals claim to.


Liberals claim a lot of things, almost all of it false.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 08, 2015, 04:30:25 PM
Quote from: TKGS
You really need to learn the Catholic faith rather than whatever it is you've learned.

Not even Jesus loved everyone the same, though he loved everyone perfectly.  Love, in this respect, is not an emotion; it is an act of the will.  You love your wife differently than you love any other person in the world.  You love your brothers and sisters (biological brothers and sisters, that is) differently than other people.  You love your children differently than other anyone else.  You love your relations in a different way than your immediate family.  You love your friends and acquaintances differently than you love the stranger that you do not know.  But you have love for all.

Who is your neighbor?  All of the people I identified above (which means everyone) is your neighbor, but you do not have the same kind of love for all of them.  On the other hand, you must have the love of all people for God's sake in your heart.  You must even have love for an armed intruder that you kill in self-defense, which, ultimately, means that you have sorrow that you were forced to kill him and sorrow that he died during the act of committing a mortal sin and likely condemned himself to hell for eternity.  

It seems that your concept of "love" is merely a sappy, emotional love--one that is often more lust than love.  If what replies you have seen on this topic make you desire to marry an "Asian woman", then you are likely beyond understanding until you mature a little more.  You seem to have the emotional state of a sixteen year old boy.


Hey guy. If you can't approach me in a charitable manner then bug off. I'm getting sick and tired of your attitude.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: OHCA on September 08, 2015, 05:40:58 PM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
This thread just makes me want to marry an Asian woman that much more.


Why do you say that?
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 08, 2015, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: OHCA
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
This thread just makes me want to marry an Asian woman that much more.


Why do you say that?


It was sarcasm. I was thinking about how people are always trying to make me look stupid but in reality they are just making themselves look stupid and me mad. It also makes me realize that if I am to ever marry that perhaps I should marry someone with an above average intelligence.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: TKGS on September 08, 2015, 07:47:03 PM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: OHCA
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
This thread just makes me want to marry an Asian woman that much more.


Why do you say that?


It was sarcasm. I was thinking about how people are always trying to make me look stupid but in reality they are just making themselves look stupid and me mad. It also makes me realize that if I am to ever marry that perhaps I should marry someone with an above average intelligence.


No one responding to you is making you look stupid.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 08, 2015, 07:56:23 PM
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: OHCA
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
This thread just makes me want to marry an Asian woman that much more.


Why do you say that?


It was sarcasm. I was thinking about how people are always trying to make me look stupid but in reality they are just making themselves look stupid and me mad. It also makes me realize that if I am to ever marry that perhaps I should marry someone with an above average intelligence.


No one responding to you is making you look stupid.


When you say things like "this question is stupid" it sure seems that way. It is not a stupid question BTW. Bishop Williamson and St. Thomas addressed this one before as well.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: TKGS on September 08, 2015, 08:08:33 PM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: OHCA
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
This thread just makes me want to marry an Asian woman that much more.


Why do you say that?


It was sarcasm. I was thinking about how people are always trying to make me look stupid but in reality they are just making themselves look stupid and me mad. It also makes me realize that if I am to ever marry that perhaps I should marry someone with an above average intelligence.


No one responding to you is making you look stupid.


When you say things like "this question is stupid" it sure seems that way. It is not a stupid question BTW. Bishop Williamson and St. Thomas addressed this one before as well.


I stand by my statement.  I did not make you look stupid.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: Disputaciones on September 08, 2015, 08:21:36 PM
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: OHCA
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
This thread just makes me want to marry an Asian woman that much more.


Why do you say that?


It was sarcasm. I was thinking about how people are always trying to make me look stupid but in reality they are just making themselves look stupid and me mad. It also makes me realize that if I am to ever marry that perhaps I should marry someone with an above average intelligence.


No one responding to you is making you look stupid.


When you say things like "this question is stupid" it sure seems that way. It is not a stupid question BTW. Bishop Williamson and St. Thomas addressed this one before as well.


I stand by my statement.  I did not make you look stupid.


You actually did but it was inevitable and deserved.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 08, 2015, 08:40:04 PM
Quote from: Disputaciones
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: OHCA
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
This thread just makes me want to marry an Asian woman that much more.


Why do you say that?


It was sarcasm. I was thinking about how people are always trying to make me look stupid but in reality they are just making themselves look stupid and me mad. It also makes me realize that if I am to ever marry that perhaps I should marry someone with an above average intelligence.


No one responding to you is making you look stupid.


When you say things like "this question is stupid" it sure seems that way. It is not a stupid question BTW. Bishop Williamson and St. Thomas addressed this one before as well.


I stand by my statement.  I did not make you look stupid.


You actually did but it was inevitable and deserved.


How was it deserved?
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: Disputaciones on September 08, 2015, 08:53:52 PM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
How was it deserved?


Because your question was so basic and obvious that it's inconceivable a 30 something year old man who claims to be a traditionalist wouldn't already know and LIVE the answer.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: Disputaciones on September 08, 2015, 09:04:01 PM
In fact, this is something every single Catholic within the age of reason is EXPECTED to know, and it's probably sinful not knowing it since it affects your every day life. It's right out of the Catechism.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: OHCA on September 08, 2015, 10:38:17 PM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: OHCA
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
This thread just makes me want to marry an Asian woman that much more.


Why do you say that?


It was sarcasm. I was thinking about how people are always trying to make me look stupid but in reality they are just making themselves look stupid and me mad. It also makes me realize that if I am to ever marry that perhaps I should marry someone with an above average intelligence.


So nothing less than a highly intelligent "10" is suitable for IF, huh...  :roll-laugh1:
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: poche on September 08, 2015, 10:39:32 PM
Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: jen51
Quote from: InfiniteFaith


I never once disputed making acts of charity towards all people. I was questioning whether or not our love for others should be the same for all people or different depending on who the person is. Obviously we must love the Lord above ourselves and our neighbors. That being one example of there being an order of how we should love. Someone posted a link to Bishop Williamson's opinion on there being an order to charity earlier in this thread. This was the answer to my question. It's not a stupid question as some are indicating. Thomas Aquinas himself addressed this sort of question.


If that's what you wanted to know, then why isn't that the question you asked in the OP? You asked "who is our neighbor?" And that is the answer you got.  :confused1:


I wanted to know who our neighbors are so that I would know whether or not I should love all people equally or differently. Knowing who our neighbors are is sufficient enough to determine the rest. If everyone is our neighbor then we must love everyone equally. If only some people are our neighbor then charity should be practiced discriminately. It appears that some people in this thread thought that everyone is our neighbor. While Bishop Williamson's letter expresses the contrary.

You should love everyone. Love of neighbor covers a multitude of sins.
Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: Briget on September 08, 2015, 10:56:05 PM
You know, reading the replies makes me want to vomit some of you out of these message boards. The irony here is amazing. Someone asking about charity and you call them names. You should be ashamed of yourselves. And don't think its just those on this thread. Ive seen it time and again. Do you dare mask it as "charity" to stomp on your brothers and sisters in Christ?

What.are.you.thinking.

Title: Who are our neighbors?
Post by: InfiniteFaith on September 09, 2015, 02:30:25 AM
Quote from: Briget
You know, reading the replies makes me want to vomit some of you out of these message boards. The irony here is amazing. Someone asking about charity and you call them names. You should be ashamed of yourselves. And don't think its just those on this thread. Ive seen it time and again. Do you dare mask it as "charity" to stomp on your brothers and sisters in Christ?

What.are.you.thinking.



I personally think that those are the unbelievers/wicked.