Author Topic: Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men  (Read 2841 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
« on: May 29, 2013, 06:53:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Charlemagne
    I'm stern and yes, occasionally angry. But the idea that a man can't show anger and has to be his children's "friend" is a result of feminism and modernism.


    This deserves discussion.

    Should men be angry? How should they show it, and to what degree?

    Should they shout at the top of their lungs? Lose their temper? Show that they are angry, but with moderation?

    Why do I find, "Was I angry?" under the 5th Commandment in all the various "Examination of Conscience" books I read?

    Why was Our Lord shown to be angry only once in Scripture, and this was a holy/just anger called "righteous indignation"?

    Why does Scripture also say, "The anger of man worketh not the justice of God."?

    Some food for thought, and matter for discussion, at least.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #1 on: May 29, 2013, 06:54:59 PM »
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  • So the ideal Catholic man is to be a feared tyrant in his family, who chooses to be kind/gentle when it pleases him? After all, even a tyrant demands to be allowed to be nice if he FEELS like it.

    I don't think that's how St. Joseph would have behaved.

    Demanding respect, and NOT being your child's "friend" is one thing. Being an ogre is another.

    It has nothing to do with feminism or modernism.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #2 on: May 29, 2013, 07:00:05 PM »
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  • Ladies -- another thing to watch out for. Does your man show an ability to control himself while he's angry?

    Does he ever "lose it" completely? Where he might throw things, hit you or others, damage property, etc.?

    I know personally of a very sad case along these lines. There was a young N.O. Catholic divorced man with 2 young daughters that he had partial custody of. He was engaged to a young lady we know, and everyone seemed happy.

    Then one day, the man took a nap and his 2 daughters colored all over the walls. He went overboard in spanking them, then it was discovered at Catechism  that the girls had physical marks from the spankings.

    Child Protective Services was called, of course.

    The young lady he was engaged to was so horrified/shocked that he could do something like this, that she broke off the engagement. Furthermore, the young man is now going to lose the last 10% custody that he had of his 2 girls. Now the man is going to be completely alone.

    He could have had a wife, occasional visitation of his 2 daughters, and possibly future children. Now he has nothing. And even worse, the 2 girls lost the future mom they were looking forward to. They got along famously.

    All because of uncontrolled anger in a man.

    See how the devil uses anger to create great evils? See how the anger of man doesn't work the justice of God?
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    Offline Charlemagne

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #3 on: May 29, 2013, 07:18:12 PM »
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  • I guess now I see why people chose to post anonymously in the original thread. I would've done the same had I known a simple sentence from my post would be used to start a new thread and be held up to ridicule.
    "Kindness is for fools! They [modernists] want to be treated with oil, soap, and caresses, but they ought to be beaten with fists. In a duel, you don't count or measure the blows, you strike as you can. War is not made with charity. It is a struggle, a duel." -- Pope St. Pius X

    Offline Matto

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #4 on: May 29, 2013, 07:27:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    He could have had a wife, occasional visitation of his 2 daughters, and possibly future children. Now he has nothing. And even worse, the 2 girls lost the future mom they were looking forward to. They got along famously.


    What are you talking about, Matthew? Are you suggesting that this man should have gone forward with a second Marriage that would have been null and void because he was already married to his first wife since marriage lasts until death, and that this false marriage would have been a good thing? I must have missed something or maybe I misunderstood you.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #5 on: May 29, 2013, 07:32:30 PM »
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  • I'm pretty sure Telesphorus must understand how you feel about it, Charlemagne. It is wrong of Matthew to do this. By the way, Tele has the same right as anyone to post anonymously.

    Besides  it seems the guy in question has been prevented from contracting into a bigamous "marriage". It's a sad story though not real appropiate example in my opinion.  

    Anger needs to be controlled. I do agree with your original remark, made innocently enough.


    Offline Sigismund

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #6 on: May 29, 2013, 07:51:43 PM »
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  • Matthew,
    A minor point, but Our Lord was angry at least twice in Scripture:

    With the money lenders in the Temple.

    With the Pharisees who challenged Him about healing on the Sabbath.

    It seems to me that He was angry when He cursed the fig tree as well.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #7 on: May 29, 2013, 09:19:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    Matthew,
    A minor point, but Our Lord was angry at least twice in Scripture:

    With the money lenders in the Temple.

    With the Pharisees who challenged Him about healing on the Sabbath.

    It seems to me that He was angry when He cursed the fig tree as well.  


    No one denies this.

    I think Matthew's point is that a man should be able to express his anger without losing it.


    Offline shin

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 01:22:43 AM »
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  • I expect for many, anger is a form of self indulgence, rather than something appropriate to a situation that will cause a good result to come about.

    One has to be practical in the end about these things. You may want your anger to actually achieve something, but in reality it's a double edged tool that is far more often used when something else instead would be what works, but isn't what you want.

    There's theory and wishful thinking and ideals, and then there's real life and real results.
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 01:28:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: Nadir
    I'm pretty sure Telesphorus must understand how you feel about it, Charlemagne. It is wrong of Matthew to do this. By the way, Tele has the same right as anyone to post anonymously.

    Besides  it seems the guy in question has been prevented from contracting into a bigamous "marriage". It's a sad story though not real appropiate example in my opinion.  

    Anger needs to be controlled. I do agree with your original remark, made innocently enough.



    Thank you Nadir.  There is obviously a lot of confusion about what is decent behavior and how Catholics are supposed to treat their neighbors.




    Offline Telesphorus

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 01:30:47 AM »
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  • There are many different kinds of anger.  I am actually fairly easy-going in my native state.  

    I can tell you that some experiences will breed intense anger, that is quite unlike anything experienced before.  In particular, the sense of being grievously betrayed.  Nothing stings like that.  Be grateful if you haven't been in such a situation.

    It's not the same as frustration or being high strung and high tempered.  It's quite different.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 02:03:53 AM »
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  • .


    It seems to me that mothers are largely responsible for how their
    sons learn to control or cope with their anger.  When I have known
    grown men to whine or fuss or complain, I have found that their
    mothers are prone to give them comforting attention to 'calm them
    down.'  Then they grow up thinking that throwing a tantrum is a
    way to get what they want.  They might not even be aware
    they're doing it, because it comes naturally to them.  

    So too with anger.  I knew a man who went into fits of rage when
    some simple thing didn't go his way.  He would place his feet apart
    about 36 inches, bend his knees, put his hands on his knees,
    hyperventilate, and start ROARING.

    I think the cartoonist who draws Dilbert (Scott Adams) must have
    known him! (Maybe he knows a close relative?)

    There is no way he never did that as a child.  This was quite
    repulsive to see.  A video of that would be enough to make any
    woman lose interest in him in two seconds.

    Another man, who was a concrete coring man, when the machines
    didn't work to his expectations, would throw down an expensive
    diamond blade on the ground and stomp on it.  What does he
    expect to accomplish?  Certainly any woman who sees that would
    have an entirely different outlook on him.  

    I don't think that anger itself is such a bad thing, but rather what a
    man chooses to do with it is what is important. It can be a great
    motivator, but out of control it is quite unseemly.

    I know a trad priest who preaches that hatred or anger, and murder
    are the same thing, and that anger is forbidden by the 5th
    Commandment, for when one communicates anger to someone, it
    is the same thing as killing love, and since God is love, well, you
    get the picture?  



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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 02:15:46 AM »
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  • .

    Dilbert on programmed hatred:





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    Offline Matthew

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #13 on: May 30, 2013, 02:19:00 AM »
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  • Quote from: Charlemagne
    I guess now I see why people chose to post anonymously in the original thread. I would've done the same had I known a simple sentence from my post would be used to start a new thread and be held up to ridicule.


    RIDICULE?

    Are you serious?

    Now your response (above) might deserve ridicule, but I wasn't ridiculing you in the OP.

    What part of

    Quote
    "This deserves discussion."


    is ridicule?

    Can't I start a decent, philosophical discussion/thread without a bunch of thin-skinned "sensitives" getting all bent out of shape about it?

    Was I to assume you were ashamed of a post that you publicly made?
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Whether Anger is a virtue or a vice for Men
    « Reply #14 on: May 30, 2013, 07:25:16 AM »
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  • .


    I have to admit that the expressed concern of several members over
    this aspect of 'being held up to ridicule' is puzzling to me.  We should
    be better than that, so we can step back from our own situation and
    look at the topic without feeling our personal attachment is somehow
    inescapable.  

    Step one: let go of your anger.  Don't be so possessive of it.  It is not
    the same as you.  It is a thing, and you are a person.  

    Anger is one of the passions of man, but it is not inherent.  You can have
    the same man with, or without, anger.  When an angry man relinquishes
    his attachment to anger, he does not become 'a different person.'



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