Author Topic: When can a married man date other women? (Read 2751 times)

Matthew · « **on:** June 20, 2007, 05:11:02 PM »

No, I'm not getting sick of my wife Jennifer

Back to being serious...

There is a thread on FE, started by Mornac, which tries to answer this question definitively.

Unfortunately for some people, Mornac never received a good answer. It would seem that the Catholic Church has made no exceptions to the rule, "till death do us part" in cases where a valid marriage has taken place.

The Catholic Church doesn't follow the modern philosophy of "expediency" ("we have to do this, because of the circuмstances").

Expediency is where something is wrong, but "we have to make an exception here, because 'come on! what else are we going to do?'"

I'd like to start a discussion about expediency, how most "moderns" (people living in the modern world) subscribe to this way of thinking, and even how it applies to Fisheaters.

Matthew

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2007, 05:15:24 PM »

For example, one hypothetical case put forward was,

"A prince brings peace to his kingdom by arranging a marriage with a princess from the rival kingdom -- even though his lawful wife is on her deathbed..."

1. That is far-fetched as can be.
2. He should be praying for/helping his wife -- as per his duties as as husband, and his solemn marriage vows, and not worry about finding another wife until his current wife is dead.

All cases of "expediency" can be summed up as: lack of trust in God and His providence.

God will provide, and you can be sure He will NEVER require you to break his laws, not even a little bit.

Matthew

Carolus Magnus · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2007, 05:33:12 PM »

I believe King Henry VIII of England was a firm believer in expediency of this kind. :devil2:

Matthew · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2007, 05:39:36 PM »

Another case someone gave:

"A woman is a complete [expletive] to her husband: she verbally abuses him, and treats him like crap. At length, she falls terminally ill. Her husband lets a sweet woman (who he was merely friends with) know his intention to marry her upon the death of his nagging wife."

This case also has PLENTY of problems.

1. The man is still validly married to his nagging wife -- how she treats him (or he treats her) has no bearing on the validity of the Sacrament.
2. What part of "for better or WORSE" don't you understand?

Matthew

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2007, 05:42:19 PM »

Someone else claimed that if a man beats his wife (even if he started doing so 15 years into the marriage) it would be good grounds for annulment -- because he obviously had no intention of cherishing his wife, etc.

This one deserves no response.

Do you see how people are confusing the modern notion of divorce (when a marriage goes bad -- "oh darn, time to call it quits!") with annulment (when a marriage never existed, because of a pre-existing impediment AT THE TIME OF THE MARRIAGE)?

And people claim that watching TV has no bearing on their Faith -- I disagree strongly. If you watch enough modern movies, you will start to think as The World thinks -- expediency, relativism, subjective truth, etc.

Matthew

Matthew · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2007, 05:51:46 PM »

Matthew · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2007, 05:55:38 PM »

Another case of expediency:

Quote

A woman is on her death bed. Her cousin is widowed with twelve kids and destitute. The dying woman is married. On her death bed she asks her husband to marry her cousin in order to provide for her and the children and to be a good father to them.

The man agrees and states his intention to marry her cousin upon the death of his wife.

By the way, how is this ANYTHING AT ALL like Vox & Quis hooking up? They were both married, neither one is dying (neither are their spouses), and the only reason they got together was a prior "platonic" friendship -- which turned into something more.

Matthew

Carolus Magnus · « **Reply #7 on:** June 20, 2007, 06:34:39 PM »

Expediency is a self serving act and shows disbelieve in the supernatural power of Almighty God. We must remember always to have God's will not our own done.

Carolus Magnus · « **Reply #8 on:** June 20, 2007, 06:37:03 PM »

Quote from: ChantCd

For example, one hypothetical case put forward was,

"A prince brings peace to his kingdom by arranging a marriage with a princess from the rival kingdom -- even though his lawful wife is on her deathbed..."

1. That is far-fetched as can be.
2. He should be praying for/helping his wife -- as per his duties as as husband, and his solemn marriage vows, and not worry about finding another wife until his current wife is dead.

All cases of "expediency" can be summed up as: lack of trust in God and His providence.

God will provide, and you can be sure He will NEVER require you to break his laws, not even a little bit.

Matthew

The Prince failed in his duties to his wife, God would never condone this abandonment as it is unjust, good cannot come from doing bad and just because something may seem to have a good effect in this life does not mean God has accepted it as right.

Magdalene · « **Reply #9 on:** June 20, 2007, 11:31:46 PM »

I agree with Carolus. Expediency in a situation does not justify commiting a sin. So, for the case of the prince, even if danger threatened his kingdom if he did not marry the princess, he has to wait until his wife dies first before he can even marry the other woman.

Magdalene · « **Reply #10 on:** June 20, 2007, 11:38:08 PM »

Quote from: ChantCd

Another case of expediency:

Quote
A woman is on her death bed. Her cousin is widowed with twelve kids and destitute. The dying woman is married. On her death bed she asks her husband to marry her cousin in order to provide for her and the children and to be a good father to them.

The man agrees and states his intention to marry her cousin upon the death of his wife.

I see nothing wrong with this situation because 1) the husband is not romanticaly involved with the cousin or has not been desiring to be with her and 2) it is an agreement to marry only after the wife is dead. #1 and #2 have to both be present. For instance, if the husband agrees to marry the cousin after his wife's death yet had been having romantic feelings/relations with the cousin or wanting her all along, then he is guilty of adultery.

Matthew · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2007, 07:41:01 AM »

I was thinking that too...

It was the only one I couldn't shoot down :)

Anyhow, the way you can tell right/wrong is

1. Is it selfless, putting God first?
2. Is there self-control/mortification, not only of the body but of the mind and WILL also?
3. Is there complete fidelity to marriage vows (better or worse, helping your spouse spiritually, helping spouse to become a (better) Catholic, etc.

If those 3 are present, then it's ok.

I could probably add to and/or revise those 3 -- but there must be some guidelines to make things clear.

Matthew

MichaelSolimanto · « **Reply #12 on:** June 25, 2007, 06:16:46 PM »

The primary error is that we are to cherish our wives, even if they do not cherish us. You cannot think of marrying another until you cherish the wife you have today.

The same goes for wives to husbands. We aren't to think of marrying another until we know the first marriage is over. In the case of annulments the Church has always presumed validity until otherwise proven. The members of the Church must also assume validity until proven otherwise.

Today we have it all backwards.

Wife&Mother · « **Reply #13 on:** July 03, 2007, 06:11:28 AM »

Many of the married saints, had trials and suffering in their marriages.....yet.....they managed to endure with their spouses throughout their entire lives; without complaining or thoughts of seperation or divorce.

St. Rita
Feastday: May 22
Patron of impossible cases
1457

St. Rita was born at Spoleto, Italy in 1381. At an early age, she begged her parents to allow her to enter a convent. Instead they arranged a marriage for her. Rita became a good wife and mother, but her husband was a man of violent temper. In anger he often mistreated his wife. He taught their children his own evil ways. Rita tried to perform her duties faithfully and to pray and receive the sacraments frequently. After nearly twenty years of marriage, her husband was stabbed by an enemy but before he died, he repented because Rita prayed for him. Shortly afterwards, her two sons died, and Rita was alone in the world. Prayer, fasting, penances of many kinds, and good works filled her days. She was admitted to the convent of the Augustinian nuns at Cascia in Umbria, and began a life of perfect obedience and great charity. Sister Rita had a great devotion to the Passion of Christ. "Please let me suffer like you, Divine Saviour," she said one day, and suddenly one of the thorns from the crucifix struck her on the forehead. It left a deep wound which did not heal and which caused her much suffering for the rest of her life. She died on May 22, 1457. She is the patroness of impossible cases. Her feast day is May 22.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #14 on:** July 03, 2007, 04:59:19 PM »

Thanks W&M! Welcome to the forum!