Read an Interview with Matthew, the owner of CathInfo

Author Topic: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!  (Read 1756 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jaynek

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3239
  • Reputation: +1576/-912
  • Gender: Female
Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2018, 09:30:36 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • You just described your own maneuvering the whole time and projected onto me. I've given plenty of facts (basis) for my claims.

    The motives you attribute to people who are opposed to prenups are not facts.  They are something that you have fabricated from your imagination.

    Facts:
    1) Courts exponentially favor women over men; and courts are subversive & legislate from the bench
    2) There is a much higher probability of "divorce" than a marriage lasting "until death do us part"
    3) When these "divorces" occur, the courts give the equity & houses to women, and women are given at least half of all other assets, wealth and savings, despite the man acquiring & building all of it or having owned it before they even got married.
    4) "Trad Catholics" are not immune to the epidemic of "divorces". Plenty of "divorces" among trads.
    I agree with these and accept them as facts.

    Nothing you proposed about what Catholics should do is a true aegis (insurance plan or defense) for men to protect themselves from women preying on everything men built and acquired on their own. One of human conditions the Catholic Church warns us about is people failing what they should do, and teaching us to take measures to protect ourselves from the enemy - spiritual or temporal - who do the opposite of what they should do

    Thus, the only viable option to protect men, who are considering marriage, is to get a prenup (and, even better, to reject getting a State marriage license).  

    Nothing you have proposed is a solution to protect men. Everything you have stated is based off of a Catholic utopia that doesn't exist, nor will it ever exist, before Christ returns and establishes His Heavenly kingdom on earth. But that's what (you) Jews are good at, right? They draft up those utopias and sell them to gullible people. Look at communism, socialism, "social justice", "equality", etc. They offer no real solutions to help or protect people, rather they subject them to more deceit & ills.
    Ain't no stopping the truth.

    Another subjective opinion with no substance justifying the rejection of prenups. You haven't posted one Catholic citation to support your argument.

    I know that marriage without divorce is possible, not because of utopian beliefs, but because I have been married for 38 years.  I know, from personal experience, that the main thing that prevents divorce is the determination never to resort to divorce.  If a person as sinful and flawed as I am can manage to remain married, then it is possible for just about anybody.

    I have a lot of sympathy for men as they face so much injustice around marriage, but I don't see going into marriage expecting to get divorced as a good solution.  I also see your emphasis on protecting men as problematic since it is difficult to reconcile with the Catholic understanding of marriage, shown in a passage in Ephesians 5.

    Right after a verse that says a wife must obey her husband, we see:

    Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it.

    Our Lord did not protect himself.  He gave His life for the Church.  And that is the model for the husband's relationship the wife.

    Offline Jaynek

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3239
    • Reputation: +1576/-912
    • Gender: Female
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #16 on: June 23, 2018, 09:43:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't mean to be rude, but this should have been obvious from the start of this whole discussion.  There's nothing that a prenup could do to change a sacrament.  The entire conversation is based around the notion that civil divorces are financially unjust to men.  It has nothing to do with the sacrament, or with promoting re-marriage.  The purpose of a prenup is to prevent court-approved, unjust theft from men, should a woman initiate a sinful divorce.  It would also include language which would deter men from spousal abuse and cheating and if a woman was given a church-approved reason to separate from her husband due to violence, then she would be financially taken care of.
    There is no Catholic tradition of prenups.  It is a secular custom, usually employed by people with a secular (i.e. false) understanding of marriage.  It is not at all obvious how this custom could be incorporated into Catholic marriage. 

    A Catholic prenup would need to explicitly protect the Sacrament of Matrimony, something that is already under attack in many ways. It cannot be assumed as a given.

    What you suggest above sounds reasonable.


    Offline Croix de Fer

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3219
    • Reputation: +2306/-2192
    • Gender: Male
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #17 on: June 23, 2018, 09:46:17 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!3
  • Quote
    I also see your emphasis on protecting men as problematic since it is difficult to reconcile with the Catholic understanding of marriage, shown in a passage in Ephesians 5.

    Right after a verse that says a wife must obey her husband, we see:

    Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it.

    Our Lord did not protect himself.  He gave His life for the Church.  And that is the model for the husband's relationship the wife.
    This is a horrible comparison of Christ's fidelity to the Church, who keeps His commandments, and expecting man to remain in fidelity to a woman who "divorces" him for financial gain and to be "free". In case you don't know, Christ has no fidelity to people outside the Catholic Church. A woman who "divorces" a man is analogous to the people who reject Christ and abandon the Church. In denying Christ, and when they stand before Him during judgement, He'll tell them, "Depart from Me, I never knew you".


    Quote
    but I don't see going into marriage expecting to get divorced as a good solution.
    If men expected to get "divorced", they wouldn't get married. No man gets married knowing it'll ultimately end in divorce, especially when the court system is so hostile to men by awarding almost everything to women, regardless of fault or reason for the divorce. But it's prudent for him to have a prenup in case the unfortunate event of divorce arises, considering the epidemic of divorces in these latter days.


    Quote
     If a person as sinful and flawed as I am can manage to remain married, then it is possible for just about anybody.
    Of course it's possible, but the unfortunate reality is it's rare. Men must protect themselves from women seeking divorce as a means to steal everything he owns & built.




    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Jaynek

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3239
    • Reputation: +1576/-912
    • Gender: Female
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #18 on: June 23, 2018, 09:53:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is a horrible comparison of Christ's fidelity to the Church, who keeps His commandments, and expecting man to remain in fidelity to a woman who "divorces" him for financial gain and to be "free". In case you don't know, Christ has no fidelity to people outside the Catholic Church. A woman who "divorces" a man is analogous to the people who reject Christ and abandon the Church. In denying Christ, and when they stand before Him during judgement, He'll tell them, "Depart from Me, I never knew you".
    The prenup does not take place after a divorce. It is a man being unwilling to give himself up for the woman he is marrying.  He is placing protecting himself as his first priority.  It is not following the Scriptural teaching on the husband's role.

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4251
    • Reputation: +2639/-1211
    • Gender: Male
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #19 on: June 23, 2018, 09:58:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    Of course it's possible, but the unfortunate reality is it's rare.
    It's rare for non-trad catholics because they don't have the grace of a sacramental marriage.  Still, they have plenty of actual graces to fulfill their marriages because God will not permit one to be tempted beyond their strength.






    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4251
    • Reputation: +2639/-1211
    • Gender: Male
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #20 on: June 23, 2018, 10:05:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it.
    No one is obligated to give their money to a robber and accept a beating from a violent criminal.  They are allowed to protect themselves.  Men are not obligated to allow their wives to steal from them nor take their children from them through the unjust and anti-catholic court system.  Spiritual love does NOT condone sin.  Therefore, men are not obligated to support their wives who sinfully destroy a marriage.

    Men are obligated to support their wives and children, as they see fit, according to their conscience, and they will be judged EXTREMELY harshly by God on the judgement day.  The court system should not be involved, except in cases of violence.


    Offline Croix de Fer

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3219
    • Reputation: +2306/-2192
    • Gender: Male
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #21 on: June 23, 2018, 10:13:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The prenup does not take place after a divorce. It is a man being unwilling to give himself up for the woman he is marrying.  He is placing protecting himself as his first priority.  It is not following the Scriptural teaching on the husband's role.
    Wrong analysis. The man does, indeed, want to give himself up (sacrifice himself) to the woman whom he thinks he's marrying. However, when the woman files for "divorce", she truly isn't the woman whom the man loved. That person was a facade. The prenup protects himself from being sacrificed for the real (insidious) woman who hid her true nature or, for whatever reason, changed and became something monstrous during the marriage.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 22911
    • Reputation: +20059/-240
    • Gender: Male
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #22 on: June 23, 2018, 11:02:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I see no problem whatsoever with this thread.

    A very interesting discussion.

    Carry on.
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!


    Offline Croix de Fer

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3219
    • Reputation: +2306/-2192
    • Gender: Male
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #23 on: June 23, 2018, 11:06:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I see no problem whatsoever with this thread.

    A very interesting discussion.

    Carry on.

    Regarding your comment about "Manosphere", "Red Pill", etc. on the other thread you locked, I've never been to those sites. I've never read their material. I really know nothing about them except for hearing people mention their names only a few times.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 22911
    • Reputation: +20059/-240
    • Gender: Male
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #24 on: June 23, 2018, 11:16:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Regarding your comment about "Manosphere", "Red Pill", etc. on the other thread you locked, I've never been to those sites. I've never read their material. I really know nothing about them except for hearing people mention their names only a few times.

    You've denied this before, but you must be a frequent consumer/poster of similar content on other sites. The so-called "Man-o-sphere" is a network of sites on the Internet dedicated to opposing feminism, bringing back true masculinity, teaching men how to live and thrive in today's world, etc.

    From what I've seen of such sites, they are A) predominantly non-Catholic, B) they only give lip service to those who are seeking a monogamous relationship ("these techniques can be used to get that life-long partner, if that's what you're after...") but C) most of the men there are worldly/neo-pagan, and are seeking to use, abuse, play with, and throw away women in a sort of bitter, anger-fueled revenge spree. They seek to learn the true psychology of male/female relationships in order to exploit it for their own perverted sexual exploits.

    They have some truth (which makes their doctrine attractive) but a LOT of error, and certainly the wrong spirit (bitterness, complete distrust and hatred of women, etc.)

    I've visited such sites on occasion -- mostly out of curiosity or when I had lots of free time -- and you sound *exactly* like them. You use all the slang terms (MGTOW, LARP, beta/alpha male, incel, etc.)

    I'm sure there's a lot of crossover between such anti-feminist quarters of the Net and white supremacist sites, for example. Why wouldn't a bunch of white supremacists be against feminism and looking out for themselves? In fact, I'd be surprised if they weren't!
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

    Offline Croix de Fer

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3219
    • Reputation: +2306/-2192
    • Gender: Male
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #25 on: June 23, 2018, 11:30:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You've denied this before, but you must be a frequent consumer/poster of similar content on other sites. The so-called "Man-o-sphere" is a network of sites on the Internet dedicated to opposing feminism, bringing back true masculinity, teaching men how to live and thrive in today's world, etc.

    [...]

    I've visited such sites on occasion -- mostly out of curiosity or when I had lots of free time -- and you sound *exactly* like them. You use all the slang terms (MGTOW, LARP, beta/alpha male, incel, etc.)

    I'm sure there's a lot of crossover between such anti-feminist quarters of the Net and white supremacist sites, for example. Why wouldn't a bunch of white supremacists be against feminism and looking out for themselves? In fact, I'd be surprised if they weren't!
    Yeah, I've been to only a few other sites where people do use those terms (soy boy, LARP, alpha/beta males, etc.), but these same sites have actually criticized MGTOW and the "manosphere", too. I've actually heard "manosphere" more than just a few times (to correct what I said earlier about that word specifically). I thought you were talking about a particular site rather than the general term for a network of like-minded men discussing issues impacting men. I've never heard of the site "Red Pill".




    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)


    Offline MaterDominici

    • Owner's Wife
    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 4924
    • Reputation: +3663/-68
    • Gender: Female
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #26 on: June 24, 2018, 12:45:54 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • It's simple. A woman gets absolutely nothing in the wake of a "divorce" she files against her husband. No house, no assets, no wealth, no car, no savings account. Also, barring any provable threat to the safety of their children, the kids stay with him.

    The only thing she keeps is what the husband gave her in the marriage.  He shouldn't take anything back that he gave or bought for her. "Benedict Arnolds" are no good.
    You're going to have to do better than that. If he commits adultery an she exercises her right to leave as permitted by the Church, she should have the right to take her children with her.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline Croix de Fer

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3219
    • Reputation: +2306/-2192
    • Gender: Male
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #27 on: June 24, 2018, 01:53:19 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!3
  • You're going to have to do better than that. If he commits adultery an she exercises her right to leave as permitted by the Church, she should have the right to take her children with her.

    Yes, if his adultery is provable, then she can exercise her rights as permitted by the Church, and carry out whatever is written out in the prenuptial agreement regarding spousal adultery (committed by the husband or wife), if it were to occur.

    The problem with NOT having a prenup is a woman can "divorce" a man for no reason at all, and steal everything for which he's worked & built.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Jaynek

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3239
    • Reputation: +1576/-912
    • Gender: Female
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #28 on: June 24, 2018, 09:48:46 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Men are obligated to support their wives and children, as they see fit, according to their conscience, and they will be judged EXTREMELY harshly by God on the judgement day.  The court system should not be involved, except in cases of violence.
    So if a man decides to abandon his wife and children, leaving to fend for themselves, nobody should intervene?  The children can be left to starve because we know the man will face a harsh punishment after he dies?

    This seems neither just nor practical.  I don't see it as any improvement over the current, admittedly unfair, treatment of men.

    Offline Jaynek

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3239
    • Reputation: +1576/-912
    • Gender: Female
    Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
    « Reply #29 on: June 24, 2018, 09:58:02 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Wrong analysis. The man does, indeed, want to give himself up (sacrifice himself) to the woman whom he thinks he's marrying. However, when the woman files for "divorce", she truly isn't the woman whom the man loved. That person was a facade. The prenup protects himself from being sacrificed for the real (insidious) woman who hid her true nature or, for whatever reason, changed and became something monstrous during the marriage.
    You are apparently assuming that there no good reasons for a woman to file for a civil divorce and that it only happens because the wife is evil and wants to steal the man's money. 

    Back before there was "no-fault divorce" people had to prove there was a good reason for a divorce and it was harder to take advantage of the system.  You seem to want to use a prenup to compensate for the problems caused by "no-fault divorce".  I think that a better solution is get rid of no-fault divorce.

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16