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Author Topic: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!  (Read 14749 times)

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Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2018, 09:30:36 PM »
You just described your own maneuvering the whole time and projected onto me. I've given plenty of facts (basis) for my claims.

The motives you attribute to people who are opposed to prenups are not facts.  They are something that you have fabricated from your imagination.

Facts:
1) Courts exponentially favor women over men; and courts are subversive & legislate from the bench
2) There is a much higher probability of "divorce" than a marriage lasting "until death do us part"
3) When these "divorces" occur, the courts give the equity & houses to women, and women are given at least half of all other assets, wealth and savings, despite the man acquiring & building all of it or having owned it before they even got married.
4) "Trad Catholics" are not immune to the epidemic of "divorces". Plenty of "divorces" among trads.
I agree with these and accept them as facts.

Nothing you proposed about what Catholics should do is a true aegis (insurance plan or defense) for men to protect themselves from women preying on everything men built and acquired on their own. One of human conditions the Catholic Church warns us about is people failing what they should do, and teaching us to take measures to protect ourselves from the enemy - spiritual or temporal - who do the opposite of what they should do

Thus, the only viable option to protect men, who are considering marriage, is to get a prenup (and, even better, to reject getting a State marriage license).  

Nothing you have proposed is a solution to protect men. Everything you have stated is based off of a Catholic utopia that doesn't exist, nor will it ever exist, before Christ returns and establishes His Heavenly kingdom on earth. But that's what (you) Jews are good at, right? They draft up those utopias and sell them to gullible people. Look at communism, socialism, "social justice", "equality", etc. They offer no real solutions to help or protect people, rather they subject them to more deceit & ills.
Ain't no stopping the truth.

Another subjective opinion with no substance justifying the rejection of prenups. You haven't posted one Catholic citation to support your argument.

I know that marriage without divorce is possible, not because of utopian beliefs, but because I have been married for 38 years.  I know, from personal experience, that the main thing that prevents divorce is the determination never to resort to divorce.  If a person as sinful and flawed as I am can manage to remain married, then it is possible for just about anybody.

I have a lot of sympathy for men as they face so much injustice around marriage, but I don't see going into marriage expecting to get divorced as a good solution.  I also see your emphasis on protecting men as problematic since it is difficult to reconcile with the Catholic understanding of marriage, shown in a passage in Ephesians 5.

Right after a verse that says a wife must obey her husband, we see:

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it.

Our Lord did not protect himself.  He gave His life for the Church.  And that is the model for the husband's relationship the wife.

Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2018, 09:43:52 PM »
I don't mean to be rude, but this should have been obvious from the start of this whole discussion.  There's nothing that a prenup could do to change a sacrament.  The entire conversation is based around the notion that civil divorces are financially unjust to men.  It has nothing to do with the sacrament, or with promoting re-marriage.  The purpose of a prenup is to prevent court-approved, unjust theft from men, should a woman initiate a sinful divorce.  It would also include language which would deter men from spousal abuse and cheating and if a woman was given a church-approved reason to separate from her husband due to violence, then she would be financially taken care of.
There is no Catholic tradition of prenups.  It is a secular custom, usually employed by people with a secular (i.e. false) understanding of marriage.  It is not at all obvious how this custom could be incorporated into Catholic marriage. 

A Catholic prenup would need to explicitly protect the Sacrament of Matrimony, something that is already under attack in many ways. It cannot be assumed as a given.

What you suggest above sounds reasonable.


Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2018, 09:46:17 PM »
Quote
I also see your emphasis on protecting men as problematic since it is difficult to reconcile with the Catholic understanding of marriage, shown in a passage in Ephesians 5.

Right after a verse that says a wife must obey her husband, we see:

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it.

Our Lord did not protect himself.  He gave His life for the Church.  And that is the model for the husband's relationship the wife.
This is a horrible comparison of Christ's fidelity to the Church, who keeps His commandments, and expecting man to remain in fidelity to a woman who "divorces" him for financial gain and to be "free". In case you don't know, Christ has no fidelity to people outside the Catholic Church. A woman who "divorces" a man is analogous to the people who reject Christ and abandon the Church. In denying Christ, and when they stand before Him during judgement, He'll tell them, "Depart from Me, I never knew you".


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but I don't see going into marriage expecting to get divorced as a good solution.
If men expected to get "divorced", they wouldn't get married. No man gets married knowing it'll ultimately end in divorce, especially when the court system is so hostile to men by awarding almost everything to women, regardless of fault or reason for the divorce. But it's prudent for him to have a prenup in case the unfortunate event of divorce arises, considering the epidemic of divorces in these latter days.


Quote
 If a person as sinful and flawed as I am can manage to remain married, then it is possible for just about anybody.
Of course it's possible, but the unfortunate reality is it's rare. Men must protect themselves from women seeking divorce as a means to steal everything he owns & built.





Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2018, 09:53:59 PM »
This is a horrible comparison of Christ's fidelity to the Church, who keeps His commandments, and expecting man to remain in fidelity to a woman who "divorces" him for financial gain and to be "free". In case you don't know, Christ has no fidelity to people outside the Catholic Church. A woman who "divorces" a man is analogous to the people who reject Christ and abandon the Church. In denying Christ, and when they stand before Him during judgement, He'll tell them, "Depart from Me, I never knew you".
The prenup does not take place after a divorce. It is a man being unwilling to give himself up for the woman he is marrying.  He is placing protecting himself as his first priority.  It is not following the Scriptural teaching on the husband's role.

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Re: When A Woman Says You're Not Listening To Me!
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2018, 09:58:34 PM »
Quote
Of course it's possible, but the unfortunate reality is it's rare.
It's rare for non-trad catholics because they don't have the grace of a sacramental marriage.  Still, they have plenty of actual graces to fulfill their marriages because God will not permit one to be tempted beyond their strength.