The conversation on the other thread, the one including "courting 18 year olds" in the title, made me think about the attitude of suspicion and offense taken by myself and other women in regard to an older man wishing to marry a much younger woman.

I started thinking about why, say, a 5 year age difference was one thing, but a 10 year age difference was starting to be "creepy."  It also matters of course how young the young woman is.  If she's 25 and he's 35, that's different.

In my opinion,  it's seemingly related to the suspicion that since very few 18 year old girls are actually capable of being intelligent, hardworking, supportive and self-sacrificing wives.  

Now the difference of course is that we're talking about an 18 year old Catholic homeschooled girl.  Hopefully, she's been raised with traditional values and therefore should be ready to be a wife and mother.

I guess the suspicion is about the fact that since we live in a time where even the more conservative and traditional among us are raising our daughters to go to college and pursue "important" careers, we seem to conclude that a man seeking a younger woman must only be seeking her in a lustful way.  Because she's not going to be much help to him otherwise.

100 years ago it was different.  A young woman was prepared to be a wife and mother and a man 10 years older was seen as being a potentially good provider.  Someone who'd passed the most difficult, tempting years of early manhood and had something to offer for the young woman.

When I was 18, my friends and I had an ingrained perception of what was an acceptable age difference to us.  It seems that our preferences had to do with more vanity and sɛҳuąƖ attraction than whether or not the man was decent and hardworking.  We were interested in someone who was less than 5 years older than us, if he was "cute" but edging up into 10 or more years and we were repulsed.  Unless, unless .. he was exceptionally handsome/fit (the exception to the rule).

But then again, I wasn't raised to be a wife and mother.  I wasn't raised to be practical in matters related to raising a child.  It's only been since I've become a Catholic and matured that I recognized the potential value in a more mature man being able to lead the family with authority, plus having had a headstart in a career and earning a good living.

The other thing about that thread and the topic though that I think has bothered some of us, is that Telephorus seemed to be indicating that he would ONLY consider someone in the 18 year old range and no one else.  Isolating girls in that particular age group seems wrong to me.  It also, in practical terms will keep him from meeting other young woman who have the qualities he's looking for, who happened to be somewhat older.  

But like he said .. even in trad circles it is very common apparently to focus on equal college educations and pursuits of careers for girls and boys alike.  I think this is even more the case than in evangelical Protestant circles where many girls are staying under their Father's roof past the age of 18 and honoring him as her "authority" until such time as she becomes a wife.  There are dozens of blogs like this by Protestant young women and I can't think of one by a Traditional Catholic girl.

We've noticed this difference just in the focus on so many Catholic homeschool programs.  The curriculum is designed to be a one size fits all ... higher math, science, philosophy, apologetics .. and all designed to send all your kids to college.  

The Protestant programs are not like this.  There are plenty college prep materials for those who want them .. but there are also subjects like home economics, and the subcategories such as budgeting, sewing, cooking ... plus music, arts and crafts etc.  

I don't know why Catholics don't have more room in their educational plans for being a good wife and mother.  I think it might be that for some reason, Catholic women tend to be even more likely to have had some feminist education either in the public schools or in Catholic schools .. or it's just in the water we drink and the air we breathe.

Frankly, I've made many mistakes raising our daughter .. and while I've never emphasized a career to her .. she is very opinionated and tomboyish (having been raised at her older brother's side) due to my poor example all these years.  She often seems to express herself with an focus on subjects related to equality and she's already 17.  I was raised in this culture and didn't become a Christian until the year 2000.  A lot of damage has already been done.  I've tried to change the way I think and act and talk.  But it's deeply ingrained in me .. to my deep regret.

Yes, Tele thinks there are only 2 kinds of girls -- the 18-year old maidens, and ex-party animals in their late 20's who have known men.

Is there no third category? In Tele's mind, apparently not.

I got my wife from that third category, so apparently he's overlooking something.

He assumes that anyone older has "not chosen him first", but the fact is she could have been ignored by all for some reason, and still be a virgin, even at 24 or 25.

Matthew

Catholic, modest, beautiful, young, homeschooled, intelligent, extremely talented, and showing interest in me.

I think anyone can understand my reaction.

Catholic, modest, beautiful, young, homeschooled, intelligent, extremely talented, and showing interest in me.

I think anyone can understand my reaction.

Yes, unfortunately Tele, you were blindsided by the reality that most 18 year olds don't get to exclusively decide what is best for them.

Does anyone want to give their perspectives on whether or not Catholics of any variety are emphasizing homemaking as a goal for their daughters?  As I mentioned in the original post, it seems to me that whether we're talking about Novus Ordo Catholic or Traditional, the focus for all children seems to be rigorous academic education and goal set for college degree and career to follow.

It seems as if the pursuit of professional careers is the norm amongst Catholics, and they often don't allow for the thought of pursuing vocational careers.  I think we need to allow our children to consider everything from carpentry to law ... But I think there's a kind of attitude against more basic jobs and I wonder if it's not made up of some fear about being able to meet non-believers out in the world on their terms. That Catholics won't be taken seriously in they're not in professional positions.  

But I think we need to have Catholics in every walk of life, just like we always have .. and this seems to be a very haughty attitude about value and worth in the world that our Lord indicated repeatedly wasn't the case.  There's nothing wrong with a humble laborer.

And with this economy, maybe we're moving back to that more simple way of life, many of us against our wills .. but back to the basics, anyway.

Mrs Z - I think a problem is that the emphasis is on work as an end in itself - or that work is seen as the social validation of a person.

St. Joseph was a carpenter, St. Paul was a tent-maker.

A girl who is planning to marry hopes to become a mother.

Now how does preparing for a more respected career prepare her for that?  It usually does just the opposite.

The expectations of today's parents raised since the 50s has made them make bad choices as a matter of course - they really have internalized much more of the modern values than they realize.

Homeschooling is one way to resist, but if the homeschooling track merges with the college educated professional track - especially for girls - then one is doing much to defeat the purpose of homeschooling.

It doesn't help that Mexicans are now considered basically the only ones suitable for blue-collar work.  Try finding a white maid in California.  

In France, it's the same problem, but with Eastern European immigrants and Muslims.  Native white Frenchman are considered to be losers if they aren't office drones.  The result is that you have this giant bureaucracy that is sucking the state dry, so many politicians and bureaucrats who are doing nothing except blowing hot air.

Yes, it is almost over.  The Great Monarch prophecies say that people in that time will be almost all poor, and ALL will be saints.  I think it's plain to see it will be an agrarian, rural society.   :geezer:

I think a young man who takes on a trade and perseveres and works hard, can make a decent living as long as the woman he marries understands thrift and sacrifice herself.  I think they can do very well.  And a young woman is supposed to be discerning through her teen years whether she is called to the religious life or to marriage.  She should be given ample opportunity to learn the homemaking skills necessary to be a good wife and helpful to her husband.  It's not that she shouldn't have academic schooling as well .. but it doesn't have to be focused on pursuit of a college degree.

Now about the younger woman older man scenario: ... my view of a young woman marrying an older man has to do with an exchange of what is valuable (and most importantly, necessary) to each.

Assuming that the man is devout and wants to marry for the right reasons: to start a family and to avoid temptation to sin ... he wishes to marry someone young enough to have children, to be healthy and strong and someone who hasn't been subject to temptations being out in the world "too long."  

Just as Telesphorus has said repeatedly.  However, there's the other side to this, that Telesphorus has insisted has nothing to do with this subject and shouldn't even be discussed.  I disagree.

On the woman's side  ... why would she, while she's not wrapped up in the emotionalism of it all .. choose a poor older man?  What is in it for her?  She may as well marry a devout young man with good prospects for making a comfortable living, who is young, strong and likely (nowadays) all things considered, to live nearly as long as she. Even with being close in age, the man is often the first one to become ill in the elder years and many wives nurse their husbands for several years before they die.  If a man is 10+ years older, than it is even more likely that she'll spend the last years of her life trying to care for her ailing husband.  And how will she fare if her H is much older and hasn't made much money or provided much financial cushion in those years of illness?  Isn't it the man's responsibility to work very hard to provide as much security as possible?

Does that sound superficial?  Well, I think many of the arguments about this topic can sound superficial.  However, when you are in the planning and preferring stage of contemplating marriage, why not take it all into account?  Obviously, anything can and does happen over a lifetime, as it's been said, there are no guarantees.  All you can do is make the best decision possible, balancing faith and temporal concerns and then make the leap.

Side note:  what should be attractive to a young or even older man who is devoutly Catholic, first and foremost, should be a sweetness of character, a generosity of spirit, a kindness and gentleness of demeanor.  This will last in a woman and it will give her a softness and loveliness in her older age, that a good spiritually mature husband will value and cherish.