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Author Topic: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic  (Read 899 times)

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Offline sebo3e

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What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
« on: May 04, 2020, 08:06:51 PM »
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  • I have an question for everyone on cath info forum i whould like to know what s your opinion on finaly fantasy series since that game promotes magic in it withcraft basically there s white magic and black magic and what s interesting i learned that white magic is nothing diffrend from black even so it feels like less hamrfull white one it trick us actually its like camuflaged since even astrology act as white but later this creates a problem

    That s why i whould like to know have enyone on this forum ever play final fantasy series trough your childhood life and how did this game affect your life etc do you think that this game should be avoided as catholic?

    Allright afther i asked a question i whould like to answer why i asked this question

    The reason why i asked this question is because afther i repented for some time i started to have some kind of feeling while playing final fantasy games i dont know how to explain yet when i whould use "Magic" in the game i whould actually feel kind of guilt awkward feeling its a bit hard to express my freinds if you get me i mean? that s why i whould like to know what do you all think because many times i have read this

    Its a just a game,its fiction its not real,magic in video game is not real,this isnt real world since its video game which have pixels yet!

    Fiction can have effect on person trough which is called desentize yet i never actually feelt eny much of change by enything of this or becomed violent because i played that game trough i wasnt really acting as catholic back then unitil i repented


    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #1 on: May 04, 2020, 10:42:23 PM »
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  • I played and still do play some video games sometimes. I played the original FFI and FFII on the Gameboy. If you look at the "magic" in that game, you will notice there is a certain distinction that White magic is that of healing and black magic is that of destruction. In some games like Tales of Symphonia they dont call it white magic but rather use terms such as Divine Power or Healing Magic. Different games have different backgrounds and implications of what that power is.
      In tales of Symphonia, magic relies on mana, the conversion of energy. In the Final Fantasy series as far as I know, they dont go into that so much as it's not too relevant to the story.

    Yes, it's fantasy. Yes, it can have an effect on your mind, depending on various factors. Yes, some of (a lot of) these stories are based on pagan mythology. Yes, video games can be a waste of time...


    My recommendation to you is that if it does not bother your spiritual life and there is no grave content in the particular game presented for judgment, be it FF 1,2,3,4,etc, and you aren't neglecting other duties,  go ahead and play it.

    Otherwise, if you have scruples, make a decision about whether or not you want any part with these things and stick to that decision.
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #2 on: May 05, 2020, 08:52:09 AM »
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  • Magic in video games (speaking of Final Fantasy and most of them; there might be some exceptions to this) is not real magic; it has nothing to do with the devil. You're not reciting any incantations of any kind. You click a menu item and then some fire engulfs one of the monsters on the screen, and he loses some hit points. If his hit points go to 0 or lower, he fades away accompanied by a catchy sound effect.

    It's harmless fantasy, just like Dungeons and Dragons, or basically any board game.

    I played such RPGs on the Super Nintendo when I was a teenager, and I never got any closer to wicca, sorcery, new age, or devil worship. So apparently there's no connection there.

    What attracted me was the story, the characters, the music, and the nobility of the world presented.

    If I could point to one thing that playing RPGs might have influenced me to do -- it would be Enter the seminary. I'm serious. My favorite RPG was Final Fantasy II. I remember comparing my Seminary experience to Cecil going to Mount Ordeals and emerging a Paladin. Just like Cecil was a different and better man after the experience, so was I. In other words, it was a modern, poor man's hero story. This could have been done with countless different books instead.

    FYI, the composer of the music for Final Fantasy II, Nobuo Uematsu, was heavily influenced by Beethoven. His music is highly ordered and structured, which is why it's so good.

    THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, they don't make 'em like Final Fantasy II anymore. Read on...

    The biggest danger of Role Playing Games (RPGs) is the waste of time they represent. No other game is so compelling as to convince you to spend TENS OF HOURS A WEEK playing them. Players spend hours "grinding" or gaining levels to get stronger, so enemies can be defeated easier, or defeated at all. RPGs are the most addictive form of game there is.

    But these single-player RPGs are NOTHING compared to any virtual world or role-playing game with a multiplayer or Internet element. When you have actual human beings in the game world, you can never get sick of it or exhaust the game. The worlds in so-called Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games have new things added, new items, new quests, and thousands of people to meet and talk to. This type of game will take over your life, if you get into the game to any degree deeper than "trying it out once". I never played that kind myself, but I've seen plenty of others get sucked in. I've looked into these games and I'm familiar enough with them.

    I remember one of the first Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games, Everquest had two nicknames among the player community: EverCrack (as in the super addictive drug), and NeverRest.

    Any sins committed playing video games would have to be in the REAL WORLD, such as time wasting, or disobeying of parents to play the game itself. But there is no morality or sin inside the game world. Ultimately, you're just manipulating 0s and 1s in a bank of RAM. If you smash a block in Super Mario World, you're not violating the Seventh Commandment which forbids theft and destruction of property.

    And what is the morality of shooting actual demons in Hell, in games like Doom?

    Should we confess the sin of Avarice when we defeat and "bankrupt" our family members in the game of Monopoly?
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    Offline sebo3e

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #3 on: May 05, 2020, 10:42:25 AM »
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  • Magic in video games (speaking of Final Fantasy and most of them; there might be some exceptions to this) is not real magic; it has nothing to do with the devil. You're not reciting any incantations of any kind. You click a menu item and then some fire engulfs one of the monsters on the screen, and he loses some hit points. If his hit points go to 0 or lower, he fades away accompanied by a catchy sound effect.

    It's harmless fantasy, just like Dungeons and Dragons, or basically any board game.

    I played such RPGs on the Super Nintendo when I was a teenager, and I never got any closer to wicca, sorcery, new age, or devil worship. So apparently there's no connection there.

    What attracted me was the story, the characters, the music, and the nobility of the world presented.

    If I could point to one thing that playing RPGs might have influenced me to do -- it would be Enter the seminary. I'm serious. My favorite RPG was Final Fantasy II. I remember comparing my Seminary experience to Cecil going to Mount Ordeals and emerging a Paladin. Just like Cecil was a different and better man after the experience, so was I. In other words, it was a modern, poor man's hero story. This could have been done with countless different books instead.

    FYI, the composer of the music for Final Fantasy II, Nobuo Uematsu, was heavily influenced by Beethoven. His music is highly ordered and structured, which is why it's so good.

    THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, they don't make 'em like Final Fantasy II anymore. Read on...

    The biggest danger of Role Playing Games (RPGs) is the waste of time they represent. No other game is so compelling as to convince you to spend TENS OF HOURS A WEEK playing them. Players spend hours "grinding" or gaining levels to get stronger, so enemies can be defeated easier, or defeated at all. RPGs are the most addictive form of game there is.

    But these single-player RPGs are NOTHING compared to any virtual world or role-playing game with a multiplayer or Internet element. When you have actual human beings in the game world, you can never get sick of it or exhaust the game. The worlds in so-called Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games have new things added, new items, new quests, and thousands of people to meet and talk to. This type of game will take over your life, if you get into the game to any degree deeper than "trying it out once". I never played that kind myself, but I've seen plenty of others get sucked in. I've looked into these games and I'm familiar enough with them.

    I remember one of the first Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games, Everquest had two nicknames among the player community: EverCrack (as in the super addictive drug), and NeverRest.

    Any sins committed playing video games would have to be in the REAL WORLD, such as time wasting, or disobeying of parents to play the game itself. But there is no morality or sin inside the game world. Ultimately, you're just manipulating 0s and 1s in a bank of RAM. If you smash a block in Super Mario World, you're not violating the Seventh Commandment which forbids theft and destruction of property.

    And what is the morality of shooting actual demons in Hell, in games like Doom?

    Should we confess the sin of Avarice when we defeat and "bankrupt" our family members in the game of Monopoly?
    Dear freind Matthew thank you for your comment i appreciate it and understand i am glad that you decided to share with me your wiev based on final fantasy experience its nice to know thats  why i am glad and i can agree about the music indeed it was really classic and amazing made even music itself is really well made i miss the times of 90s when music was actually music do you to?

    Also about the dungeon and dragons and other games like doom and call of duty even occultic games was an long talk as well have you ever hear about satanic panic i show you



    *deleted* here read this what do you think?


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #4 on: May 05, 2020, 11:46:08 AM »
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  • The website you linked is not welcome here. It was put up by a puritan heretic.
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    Offline BTNYC

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #5 on: May 05, 2020, 02:05:09 PM »
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  • There's not much to add that Matthew hasn't already covered, but to place particular focus on the case of Dungeons & Dragons - I think that that game (the offspring of the older wargames which HG Wells famously loved, as well as the "father" of modern role-playing games) is a case-in-point on the preeminence of the Protestant / Puritan perspective in the American moral compass. The infamous Jack Chick comic tract "Dark Dungeons" seems to have been the flashpoint for the religious opposition to the game. The central conceit of the tract seems to be that D&D necessarily leads to real-life witchcraft and devil worship due to the usage of magic and wizardry in the game. It's very much like the Puritan opposition to Halloween - a scrupulous over-reaction to superficial aspects with no real analysis of the thing per se, as a whole, or in context.

    I've heard condemnations of Tolkien by these same Puritanical types, on the same scrupulous and superficial grounds. And the settings and character types of D&D are nothing if not warmed over Tolkien (with perhaps a dash of Robert E. Howard). The game, in itself, is, like most other games, morally neutral. It can, or course, be situationally sinful, as any other neutral activity can be, but, in moderation, it can be a useful tool for strengthening mathematical skills, imaginative powers, strategic thought, and, inasmuch as it fosters an interest in Tolkien, can open players up to the works of the 20th Century's greatest Catholic literary figure. Thus, I was perplexed to learn that there apparently exists a pamphlet for examination of conscience, issued by the FSSP, I believe, which categorizes playing Dungeons & Dragons (specifically, by name) as a mortal sin. From what I recall of the text quoted from the pamphlet, the reasons given for the sinfulness of the game were the same tenuous connection to witchcraft posited in the Chick tract. As I've said before, since the Puritan model of piety and morality is the prevailing one in America (and most of the Anglophone world in general), well-meaning American Trad Catholics inevitably fall into using the Puritan's moral yardstick as the de facto standard. I was surprised to learn, however, that that influence could get as high up as a pamphlet published by the FSSP.

    Catholic parents should, of course, strictly filter and monitor what their children consume. And that brings to mind the main secular force behind the moral panic against D&D in the 80's - a woman named Patricia Pulling. After the ѕυιcιdє of her teenaged son, she learned that he was an avid player and collector of D&D manuals and paraphernalia. But, by her own admission, she had had "no idea" what D&D was until after her son's death. That ignorance bespeaks a mother (and, presumably, and more importantly, a father) entirely disengaged from their child's life and interests. It is that disengagement which, I would argue, is the crucial element to blame for their son's tragic end. Mrs. Pulling's entire passionate campaign against the game and its publisher (which she waged until the end of her own life) strikes me as a protracted quelling of a guilty conscience desperate to pin her own complicity in her son's ѕυιcιdє onto a convenient scapegoat.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #6 on: May 05, 2020, 02:16:01 PM »
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  • a woman named Patricia Pulling. After the ѕυιcιdє of her teenaged son, she learned that he was an avid player and collector of D&D manuals and paraphernalia. But, by her own admission, she had had "no idea" what D&D was until after her son's death. That ignorance bespeaks a mother (and, presumably, and more importantly, a father) entirely disengaged from their child's life and interests. It is that disengagement which, I would argue, is the crucial element to blame for their son's tragic end. Mrs. Pulling's entire passionate campaign against the game and its publisher (which she waged until the end of her own life) strikes me as a protracted quelling of a guilty conscience desperate to pin her own complicity in her son's ѕυιcιdє onto a convenient scapegoat.

    Definitely!

    She is trying to redirect the blame, when she was obviously disengaged from her son completely. Did she ever take time out of her busy career to talk to him?
    Parental neglect and lack of love -- that is where ѕυιcιdє comes from.

    I have a theory (and no one's going to convince me otherwise) that virtually all the busybody ladies who call Child Protective Services or the police on families when they leave their kid in the car, let their kids play outside, etc. had abortion(s) in their own dark past, and over-protecting others' children is the way they rationalize or "make up for" their own sins.

    It makes sense. By killing her own child(ren) because "she wasn't ready", "couldn't spend enough time with them", etc. what do you suppose she would think of a big family, who goes ahead and has all the wonderful, joy-bringing children? All she can do is focus on "Well, THEY aren't any more ready than I was -- they're neglecting them." and so she rationalizes tattling to the authorities. She's secretly jealous of that large family full of love, and so she wants to destroy it. It's the sin of Envy. The devil's own proper sin. He can never be happy, and so he wants to take it away from others at least.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #7 on: May 05, 2020, 02:48:59 PM »
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  • Quote
    After the ѕυιcιdє of her teenaged son, she learned that he was an avid player and collector of D&D manuals and paraphernalia. But, by her own admission, she had had "no idea" what D&D was until after her son's death. That ignorance bespeaks a mother (and, presumably, and more importantly, a father) entirely disengaged from their child's life and interests.
    Yeah, and who knows if he was playing the Ouija board or Tarot cards...far more real and sinister.  And if he was into this without her knowing, was he also into drugs too?  Probably.
    .
    Quote
    And that brings to mind the main secular force behind the moral panic against D&D in the 80's
    Let's not forget the "satanic panic" of the 80s too...which was based on real concerns/threats, but always causes an over-reaction.  The media, of course, made fun of those who believed in the rise of Satanism/witchcraft, but the evidence was there.  Hard to fault parents on seeing D&D as a threat, but they should've concentrated on rock-n-roll and such "stars" such as Madonna.  They are far more dangerous than D&D.
    .
    Thanks for the info on D&D.  I have never played it, and always heard it was evil.  Never knew (or cared) to confirm.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #8 on: May 05, 2020, 03:19:00 PM »
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  • I appreciate the sober analysis, Matthew and BTNYC.
    .
    I used to play video games much more than I do today, and especially single player CRPGs.  Nowadays, if I have time, I mostly stick to strategy games.
    .
    Something that I have noticed over the last ten or fifteen years is that the 'time sink' aspect of single player games has been increasing exponentially.  I remember playing Oblivion when I was about fifteen or so, and then playing Skyrim when I was like twenty-one.  Although both are fantasy-based single player RPGs, and although both are 'open world' (i.e. you aren't forced to play a single, linear quest line), Skyrim was much more of a time sink.  They had houses in-game, hunting, fishing, etc.  There were 'radiant' quests-- that is, quest lines that procedurally generated and were therefore theoretically infinite.  While Oblivion managed to be an epic quest (and indeed a time sink) it was nothing compared to Skyrim which could set itself up as an alternate reality.  And we're almost ten years removed from its release and people are still playing it, still modding it, etc.  That's not because it has a great heroic quest line, not because it has variability or replay value, but because it's more of a platform than a game.  You can create a whole alternative life in it, if you want.  And by what I hear, it's rather primitive by 2020 standards in that regard.  It's like, once you're itching to play a game not to slay dragons or rescue a civilization from certain doom but to do something totally mundane-- like kill an elk and harvest some tomatoes so you can make a stew-- something's off.
    .
    Anyways, none of this reflects on games per se but it's just to echo Matthew's point about being judicious with the way that a person chooses to spend their time.  I think that games are being increasingly designed as substitute realities.  With the way that graphics are today, I think many young men are unwittingly falling into this trap (indeed, this is another reason why I've made the 'switch' to strategy games when I do play-- because they're mostly non-graphical or to the degree that they are graphical they are not immersive, they can't be confused with 'the real thing.').  While there's of course nothing sinful about playing a game for an hour (or two!), once you are spending more than that (or even that much?) every day, every month, every year, what exactly is it that you're doing with your life?  Talk about demoralizing.  Talk about destruction of virility and motivation.  
    .
    Ask a young man 'what do you like to do?'  How common is the answer 'not much'?  I take that as code for 'as soon as I get home I play video games until I fall asleep.'  People don't even want to admit it.  They're ashamed.  As they should be.  But really, they need to be empowered and helped out, because they're being made slaves to these alternate realities and they don't know how to escape, I think (all of this is infinitely more true of pornography, by the way).
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline sebo3e

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #9 on: May 05, 2020, 03:25:34 PM »
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  • The website you linked is not welcome here. It was put up by a puritan heretic.
    Thank you for the explanation does that mean what there was said about video game was actually not true? about that s sin to play tekken since we punch people or other games there it mention correct? its all false

    Offline BTNYC

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #10 on: May 05, 2020, 03:37:29 PM »
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  • Yeah, and who knows if he was playing the Ouija board or Tarot cards...far more real and sinister.  And if he was into this without her knowing, was he also into drugs too?  Probably.
    .Let's not forget the "satanic panic" of the 80s too...which was based on real concerns/threats, but always causes an over-reaction.  The media, of course, made fun of those who believed in the rise of Satanism/witchcraft, but the evidence was there.  Hard to fault parents on seeing D&D as a threat, but they should've concentrated on rock-n-roll and such "stars" such as Madonna.  They are far more dangerous than D&D.
    .
    Thanks for the info on D&D.  I have never played it, and always heard it was evil.  Never knew (or cared) to confirm.

    Excellent points about the "far more real and sinister" dangers of Ouija, Tarot, pop music, etc. 

    Indeed, it is the failure to distinguish those real and sinister dangers from the more neutral stuff that gets lumped in with the bad that makes the Puritan influence so lamentable. The lumping in of D&D with Ouija and Tarot was repeated a decade or two later when the works of Tolkien (made popular again by the Peter Jackson films) were lumped into the very justified attacks against the Harry Potter and (worst of all) "His Dark Materials" books.

    It muddies the issue by simplifying it down to "it's bad because there's magic in it," failing to take crucial contextual factors into account, namely the reality of the magic and the proximity to same. There's all the difference in the world between fictional magic as a sort of science or craft practiced by the wizards of Middle Earth (having nothing to do with real-life witchcraft, wicca, or demonology) and a story whose central theme is a school where magic is specifically being taught to contemporary children, very much like (and immediately identifiable for) the intended audience of the books - contemporary children. In Dungeons & Dragons, even if the player "is" a magic-user, the whole conceit of the game - role play - serves as a constant reminder that it is the character, in the character's fantasy environment, that is using the magic (which is treated more or less like any other tool or weapon). There's all the difference in the world between that and a Ouija Board, where the interaction with malign spiritual forces is real, direct, immediate and personal.

    Puritan moral panics are like hypochondria. In failing to distinguish between benign and malignant conditions, a state of confusion ensues in which the cancer may go unchecked while every resource is spent battling the sniffles.


    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #11 on: May 05, 2020, 03:47:26 PM »
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  • I used to play video games a lot more often than I do now. I would say that the greatest risk that video games pose to your spiritual life is, as other posters have said, is wasting your time by playing them too much. A close second would be that some games can be an occasion of sin for one to indulge in anger as soon as you are dealt a shorthand (facing OP enemies, unexpected death, etc.) by your opponents within the game. The only game I've played for quite some time that has an element of magic in it is Minecraft, with its enchantment system. In that game, you use your XP levels to "enchant" your tools/weapons/armor to give them special bonuses with some kind of made-up language. Like what other posters have indicated, most fantasy magic systems in games are not meant to be taken seriously and have no connection to the occult.

    Of all the games I still play, I mostly stick to Minecraft, due to its relative simplicity and sandbox nature. However, I am quite careful in regulating my hours on there, as "letting myself go", even on the weekends, would probably result in me reducing the amount of prayer and spiritual reading I do each day. Also, if you are playing a more "passive" game in which you do not need to pay much attention, I would suggest playing audio of an instructional nature (think conferences/catechism lessons) in regards to the Faith in the background. However, if you are not the kind of person that can listen to something and understand it while doing something else at the same time, I would not recommend this. 

    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #12 on: May 05, 2020, 04:45:20 PM »
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  • Mithrandylan,
      Pardon me, as it was this one whom has accidentally down-voted you while scrolling. Sorry.
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #13 on: May 05, 2020, 05:42:30 PM »
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  • Thank you for the explanation does that mean what there was said about video game was actually not true? about that s sin to play tekken since we punch people or other games there it mention correct? its all false


    Whatever is "lost" or "missed" by never visiting that website, we can live without.

    You don't drink a glass of mostly good water if it has 1% arsenic. And that website has a lot more than just 1% error/poison.

    And no, punching a person in Tekken is not a violation of the 5th Commandment. The 5th Commandment forbids doing willful harm to the person of others, up to and including murder. No person is harmed in a video game virtual world. "Kuma" or the other characters in Tekken are not matter for the virtue of Charity, so the virtue of Charity cannot be violated with regards to them. They are mere 1s and 0s in a ram chip.

    If the data on RAM chips were covered by the virtue of charity, then running a system utility which involves zeroing out all RAM addresses (for security, etc.) would make one a mass murderer worse than Stalin.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: What s your opinion on Final fantasy and magic
    « Reply #14 on: May 05, 2020, 05:49:09 PM »
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  • It's like, once you're itching to play a game not to slay dragons or rescue a civilization from certain doom but to do something totally mundane-- like kill an elk and harvest some tomatoes so you can make a stew-- something's off.
    .
    Ask a young man 'what do you like to do?'  How common is the answer 'not much'?  I take that as code for 'as soon as I get home I play video games until I fall asleep.'  People don't even want to admit it.  They're ashamed.  As they should be.  But really, they need to be empowered and helped out, because they're being made slaves to these alternate realities and they don't know how to escape, I think (all of this is infinitely more true of pornography, by the way).


    These points are very important.

    Men need to go learn how to hunt and skin a REAL elk, and how to raise real food in a garden -- not waste time growing virtual food in Farmville or some equivalent video game.

    So many hours wasted, which could be spent MASTERING SOMETHING, ANYTHING -- which is the very essence of being a man.

    A lot of these men are single. Well, women are primarily attracted to men who have accomplished/mastered something(s) or other. Not just skills, but knowledge -- especially the Faith in the case of a good Catholic woman. There is plenty to learn, plenty to practice. Young men really can't afford to waste hundreds of hours of their valuable childhood and youth. There is no way you can waste dozens of hours a week on DOING NOTHING and not have it affect your life in the long-term.

    To be more precise, women are attracted to confidence, and there is no shortcut or way to fake confidence. The way a man builds confidence is by DOING all sorts of things, getting good at some of them. Same with knowledge. When a man socializes, he will be confident if he knows he's good at A, B, C, X, Y and Z -- he knows who he is, knows what he can do, and is content with himself. You can't fake that.
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