Author Topic: What kind of crazy is this? (Read 2380 times)

StCeciliasGirl · « **on:** July 20, 2013, 02:48:33 PM »

Someone I know, out of state, diagnosed with bipolar and on "lithium" and "paxil" for mood swings. Just after being diagnosed, she married maybe-trad guy who himself takes something called "suboxone" (secretive about it, but otherwise seemed fine), and the first year, things seem fairytale fine, and they devoted their time to visiting the sick and soup kitchens. Church loves them; they loved the Church. That was five years ago; after the first year or two, they became abusive to each other (as in violent: the police were involved) (often). They never divorced, but he moved out of the state for work, still pays the bills, etc. As odd as it seems, things seemed fine (if weird: they got together once a month, almost seemed to get along for a few days, then they separated swearing never to speak again ...for a week or so).

Last night, she calls and says she's taken a lot of pills, but that she "talked to the Holy Mother" and her time on earth is done. Uh, I put her on speakerphone, and my husband and I kept her talking as I looked up the police for their area (not an easy thing to do, esp if you don't know the county name). Finally got a dispatcher, rattled off the physical address (got questioned myself for calling from another state). But the dispatcher could hear my husband talking to the woman who has ODed down there. The woman kept repeating the Holy Mother told her to do it, but then she said she just missed her husband and he wouldn't answer the phone so she broke her (cell) phone and just started taking pills: 10 lithiums, some methadone, some klonipins, maybe something else. It made NO sense, what she was saying.

The EMTs got there within minutes, and she's in the hospital still today. I called her priest ASAP last night, and the priest said NOT to call the husband. (I didn't; the situation is too freaky for me, and I don't know their business.) Later, I find out the woman had called the husband after drinking charcoal (?) in the ER, AND she's not letting her priest in to see her. (Not sure, but I think she might have been faking something; she laughed maniacally that she would hit the nurse button when the priest approached; he was apparently there for several hours last night.) —Oh, then she got agitated and told me never to talk to her again.

Is that "bipolar", or depression, or just plan CRAZY? From what I've read, she (in her 30s) is going to have to do some dialysis and may have really messed herself up, just to talk to her husband (who their priest told me not to call).

(I'd say the state, but I don't want to give anything away about the priest that might hurt his reputation, though I think he's done an exemplary job and acts like he has everything under control.)

I rarely see her; she used to live in the same town, and we've kept in touch. But where she used to have many friends in her new city, now she has (apparently) nobody except her priest and a few people from her parish --who are scared of her. And tbh, I'm a little scared of her and the husband. They WERE a fun couple to hang around; but I barely know her anymore, and I know NOTHING of "bipolar".

I don't know what to do with this; what my responsibilities are; if I did the right thing (I don't know if 10 lithiums is an OD, or if she wanted attention.)

OH! One last thing: last year, her psychiatrist (court-ordered) said she wasn't "bipolar", but "borderline-" something. She and her husband laughed it off; and she doesn't see the talking kind of shrink, just the prescribing kind. But she had SEEMED FINE for months until last night. A Catholic, trying to commit ѕυιcιdє? (Or trying to get attention?) What do you do with that? I feel weird sending flowers or a card. ???

And I don't know how to pray for her. I tried, but I don't know what to ask except that she "come to her senses". What do you do with ..."suicidal Catholics"? How do you pray for them? Is there a "group" I could try to get her involved in when she's out of the hospital? :scared2:

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2013, 03:26:55 PM »

I am in remission from bi-polar. The given incident could be bi-polar, as it's very nature makes symptoms wide-ranging. Aural and visual hallucinations can be part of the package. If the psychiatrist said 'borderline something' it's probably borderline personality disorder, which is different than bi-polar. There are similarities, but people with borderline don't typically (as far as I recall) hallucinate.

As to the Lithium, it depends on what her does was, but ten would certainly need a stomach pump.

Obviously the Blessed Virgin did not ask her to commit ѕυιcιdє. She is very sick, and her spiritual life needs to improve. No pill I took helped more than regularly praying. Sometimes *some* medication is necessary. But never in place of a prayer life.

Possession is always a possibility, but I am not trained at all in those matters. It is very important for a validly ordained priest to be near her, though-- possessed or not. That she would refuse that is disturbing.

Grandiosity and delusional thinking are significant parts of bi-polar as well. That could account for some of her behavior.

Frances · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2013, 05:07:05 PM »

If the woman has bipolar disorder, she may have gone off her lithium, become manic, and slipped into a psychotic state. I also question taking both lithium and Paxil. This can destabilize serotonin levels in the brain resulting in a mixed manic suicidal state. I hope this woman is kept in hospital until stable and not released until she has a safe place to get back on track. It sounds to me as if more than a physical problem is at work. She needs ongoing spiritual, psychological as well as physical assistance. I have some personal experience with bipolar symptoms, by God's grace, never to point of psychosis. There are many in both sides of my family, but because it was (and still is) a taboo topic, nobody talked about it, even when children began to exhibit the same behaviors as relatives who were "put away" in the state asylum or who committed ѕυιcιdє. The most recent victim is the 46 year-old who leaped to her death from a 10th floor balcony after being taken off all her meds in an experiment of a psychiatrist. She had been hallucinating and paranoid for several weeks without respite, even in sleep. Her husband is suing the doctor.
Whatever happens, be sure someone is with this woman 24/7.
Don't discount the possibility of demonic influence. Devils prey upon the vulnerable.

Lighthouse · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2013, 05:54:10 PM »

Just a few pieces of your puzzle that you don't seem to be aware of:

Suboxone is primarily used for maintenance of opioid addiction, an indication of a severely disordered and difficult life situation.

I'm sure she was referring to Borderline Personality Disorder, a very serious condition. The ѕυιcιdє rate for this condition is around ten percent.

I'm not an expert in these areas, but I do known that what's involved is a good deal more ominous than personality swings.

I'm not any fan of Freudian psychology, but there are ways to deal with these kinds of problems and at least get some alleviation.

If you're the kind that sees a spark on the lamp pole in front of your house, grabs a wrench, and goes climbing up the pole, then go ahead and jump in.

Prayers are especially made for situations such as this. I'll certainly pray for you and your friend. It's a tough situation, but all too common in today's culture.

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2013, 07:56:51 PM »

Oh, I said it wrong: I asked if she SAW or heard anything from an actual apparition (which I would have known was suspect), but she said she "just knew" it was okay to take the pills, and that her time on earth was done. (We kept her talking as much as possible until we could reach the authorities). She made the Holy Mother's "approval" sound more like "a feeling" than an actual vision or auditory experience. But she was crying when she said it; obvious depression (mixed with some of those pills she had popped).

I called to check up on her today; a neighbor became somewhat involved (let the priest into her home), and some parishioners tried to visit, but she's in a locked ward. I got her security code so I could talk to the doctors, and they took my name and number. They said she'd gotten there in time to get the lithium and other drugs out of her stomach, but that she'd certainly taken lethal doses. They've still got to clear her physically, then "psych" has to clear her. They consider her a danger to herself and maybe others; she has to have a "sitter", and her memory is going in and out. (She tried to leave, but fell.)

I did mention that I didn't know if she were bipolar or borderline, but the nurse said they'd do a full workup because her drugs didn't make sense for either diagnosis.

I believe the priest thinks there is something criminal or demonic involved (a few things he found in the house, according to the neighbors), but he's been very careful (though nice) in talking to me. He is apparently NOT talking to the husband, who just arrived late this afternoon.

I don't like the medications she's on. I'm familiar with stuff like schizophrenia (visiting asylums once I learned they existed, because nobody visits them), but I don't know much about these new "designer" depression drugs (Prozacs and Paxils). And nothing about lithium (that lithium stuff sounds dangerous, especially if someone is prone to hurting themselves!)

edit: just saw the last post, and no, I stick to prayer more than messing with stuff like this. It's just that we've gone to (what used to be 'illegal') Masses before (legit RCC priests who celebrated Mass the old way) and in that sense, she's like a sister. I'd mainly like to understand if she "snapped", or if she might have been possessed. (I've got kids; I've got to be very careful what I expose them to.) Thx!

poche · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2013, 11:33:34 PM »

It could very wwell have been a bipolar event. These are situations that need a lot opf prayers.

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #6 on:** July 24, 2013, 01:12:09 PM »

I have an update!

First, the hospital dismissed her after a 3-day hold with out-patient care appointments; she's very sick from the OD, and scared of her frame of mind, but her husband is with her, and isn't going to leave her side. They're actually seeking in-patient care at a facility because a psychologist they met with said, from the records, they're not sure if she's bipolar OR borderline, and that needs to be monitored closely by experienced doctors and nurses.

Her priest was furious with her; spitting-mad. He threatened (and might yet!) excommunicate her. He doesn't believe that much in psychiatry, so the husband's pretty mad at (but respectful of) the priest. I guess if she's booted, he would be, too? But the priest isn't happy with any psychiatric explanation; he said she had missed Mass too often, and didn't pray enough, and instead relied too much on doctors to "fix" her instead of the Church.

Still, she wants in-patient care because she doesn't know why she got suicidal, and fears Hell. (Again, she's still suffering from the after-effects of the OD, physically and mentally, so it's not something she's forgetting.) So they're looking for in-patient care and a solution that doesn't require medicines. Husband is willing to fly her anywhere for the care, so they're looking.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #7 on:** July 24, 2013, 04:57:13 PM »

Quote from: StCeciliasGirl

Someone I know, out of state, diagnosed with bipolar and on "lithium" and "paxil" for mood swings. Just after being diagnosed, she married maybe-trad guy who himself takes something called "suboxone" (secretive about it, but otherwise seemed fine), and the first year, things seem fairytale fine, and they devoted their time to visiting the sick and soup kitchens. Church loves them; they loved the Church. That was five years ago; after the first year or two, they became abusive to each other (as in violent: the police were involved) (often). They never divorced, but he moved out of the state for work, still pays the bills, etc. As odd as it seems, things seemed fine (if weird: they got together once a month, almost seemed to get along for a few days, then they separated swearing never to speak again ...for a week or so).

Last night, she calls and says she's taken a lot of pills, but that she "talked to the Holy Mother" and her time on earth is done. Uh, I put her on speakerphone, and my husband and I kept her talking as I looked up the police for their area (not an easy thing to do, esp if you don't know the county name). Finally got a dispatcher, rattled off the physical address (got questioned myself for calling from another state). But the dispatcher could hear my husband talking to the woman who has ODed down there. The woman kept repeating the Holy Mother told her to do it, but then she said she just missed her husband and he wouldn't answer the phone so she broke her (cell) phone and just started taking pills: 10 lithiums, some methadone, some klonipins, maybe something else. It made NO sense, what she was saying.

The EMTs got there within minutes, and she's in the hospital still today. I called her priest ASAP last night, and the priest said NOT to call the husband. (I didn't; the situation is too freaky for me, and I don't know their business.) Later, I find out the woman had called the husband after drinking charcoal (?) in the ER, AND she's not letting her priest in to see her. (Not sure, but I think she might have been faking something; she laughed maniacally that she would hit the nurse button when the priest approached; he was apparently there for several hours last night.) —Oh, then she got agitated and told me never to talk to her again.

Is that "bipolar", or depression, or just plan CRAZY? From what I've read, she (in her 30s) is going to have to do some dialysis and may have really messed herself up, just to talk to her husband (who their priest told me not to call).

(I'd say the state, but I don't want to give anything away about the priest that might hurt his reputation, though I think he's done an exemplary job and acts like he has everything under control.)

I rarely see her; she used to live in the same town, and we've kept in touch. But where she used to have many friends in her new city, now she has (apparently) nobody except her priest and a few people from her parish --who are scared of her. And tbh, I'm a little scared of her and the husband. They WERE a fun couple to hang around; but I barely know her anymore, and I know NOTHING of "bipolar".

I don't know what to do with this; what my responsibilities are; if I did the right thing (I don't know if 10 lithiums is an OD, or if she wanted attention.)

OH! One last thing: last year, her psychiatrist (court-ordered) said she wasn't "bipolar", but "borderline-" something. She and her husband laughed it off; and she doesn't see the talking kind of shrink, just the prescribing kind. But she had SEEMED FINE for months until last night. A Catholic, trying to commit ѕυιcιdє? (Or trying to get attention?) What do you do with that? I feel weird sending flowers or a card. ???

And I don't know how to pray for her. I tried, but I don't know what to ask except that she "come to her senses". What do you do with ... "suicidal Catholics"? How do you pray for them? Is there a "group" I could try to get her involved in when she's out of the hospital? :scared2:

This sounds to me like a case for 5 saints:

St. Dymphna ~ privately known as the Patroness of Los Angeles,
perhaps because we have so many crazies out here. It seems this city
attracts them, somehow, or you have to be a bit nuts to STAY here... :sad:

St. Maximilian Kolbe (died of lethal drug injection)

St. Padre Pio -- saint for all maladies, all problems, all crises.

St. Philomena -- likewise, saint for all the troubles of life.

Our Mother of Perpetual Help -- likewise, etc., she delegates to other saints,
too, and who said, there is no problem that can afflict you that cannot be
solved by praying the most holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

FaithByProxy · « **Reply #8 on:** July 24, 2013, 05:07:59 PM »

Quote from: StCeciliasGirl

I have an update!

*snip*

Please be assured of my prayers. It sounds like an awful situation all around.

Frances · « **Reply #9 on:** July 24, 2013, 05:46:38 PM »

:pray:Yes, pray, and pray some more. The sick woman should pray the Rosary, even if it is all she can do to INTEND to pray and finger the beads. May I suggest finding a less antagonistic priest? Not a n.o. nut-case, but someone who has experience with the mentally ill and can tell the difference between physical illness and demonic activity? A tall order, I know! Ask OL for the priest. Regardless of whose fault it is, the woman needs help now. Remember the disciples questioned Jesus as to whose sin had made a man a cripple? He said neither his or his parents. God allowed it to show His Glory. Then He healed him. Let Our Lord Jesus Christ be glorified through this poor, tormented soul, and through those trying to help her.

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2013, 08:05:05 PM »

Exactly: thank, Frances. I love her priest, and he does good Mass, the few I've been to, but I don't understand his reaction that well. (She told me today that her pills made her come off as "more sane" than he might have known, and he was taken by surprise.)

Her husband's had to take her to the lower part of Alabama for his new work, so she won't be alone. They're in a hotel, and both complete newbies to Alabama as of today. He's asked me to find them a half-decent parish, and I usually have luck with traditio's directory, but not this time! There's NADA in Alabama within 4 hours. But her priest called her today (yay!) and said she should pray the rosary as much as possible, and suggested they take weekend trips to one of several parishes in FL, esp since she loves the beach, and he'll communicate with the priest of whatever parish they choose. But she needs something more (daily Mass, or at least some Adoration time).

The closest parish in their town is completely Masonic-looking: I ran a virus scan after opening the page it was so bad. But there's a military base nearby, and I might call the chaplain who does Mass there and talk to him. All I know about military chaplains are from re-runs of MASH, but they have to be somewhat traditional, and ...used to emergencies??? (That kumbayah stuff wouldn't help in a war, I'm sure, so they've GOT to be traditional.) (I hope.)

Her husband is obviously busy, but nervous to leave her alone anywhere. I'm actually thinking of trying to find a convent for an extended retreat. He said he'd pay whatever if I could find something like that, but google just gives me ...Queen of Angels convent's Shalom retreat. (Don't click that link. The women look like men and lesbians. They can't possibly be Catholic "Benedictines". There's just no way.)

You're right though, about:

Quote

Remember the disciples questioned Jesus as to whose sin had made a man a cripple? He said neither his or his parents. God allowed it to show His Glory. Then He healed him. Let Our Lord Jesus Christ be glorified through this poor, tormented soul, and through those trying to help her.

These last 5 days have really been eye-opening for those of us even remotely involved.

sedetrad · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2013, 05:57:42 AM »

As a clinician, my advice is to stay far away from this woman.

TCat · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2013, 06:54:07 AM »

Anyone who is fanatical enough in the expression of their faith will be dealt with in the modern society's way of dealing with things, that is to criminalize human nature, and put people into a category box where you can dehumanise them by doing so, subjugate their will to your own and call it "help", dismiss the expressions of their humanity as "sick".

I hate psychiatry, it is a complete and total utter fraud. Im not debating on this but I speak from much experience and much research, I wont debate because my responses to pro-subjugate other human being psychiatry idolizers was one reason I got banned from catholic answers.