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Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Jacob III on November 26, 2012, 02:34:36 PM

Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Jacob III on November 26, 2012, 02:34:36 PM
What kind of general activities are good for building a strong marriage?

What kind of things should a couple do before they have children so that family tradition and bonds are strong?

Thanks -  :smile:
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Catechist99 on November 26, 2012, 02:58:22 PM
Well...if they are already married they should......have babies!  To wait is contrary to Sacred Tradition and is a mortal sin.

Taken from the SSPX.org website about using natural means to avoid children until the couple wants them:

Quote
This is the case of those selfish couples who are determined to limit the size of their family from the beginning of their marriage. They are truly married, although their marriage is not pleasing to God, and they will never be able to communicate to their children generosity, the spirit of sacrifice, the love of the Cross, of souls and the Church.

Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Jacob III on November 26, 2012, 03:02:11 PM
Quote
Well...if they are already married they should......have babies!  To wait is contrary to Sacred Tradition and is a mortal sin.


We've been married only 4 months.

As I told a family member, we work on having children "a little bit every day".

What I meant by the question is what can we do now so that the children we will eventually have will have a good Catholic upbringing?
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: MaterDominici on November 26, 2012, 11:21:12 PM
This is a good time to work on establishing holiday practices that you'd like to be second-nature year after year. Even something as simple as deciding when you'll put up a Christmas tree and how long it will stay after Christmas will streamline things in the future.

Here, we love music and it's hard not to pull out our favorite Christmas hymns right about NOW, but we'll be doing our best to focus on Advent and prioritize prayer and study until Christmas is actually here. If it were just the two of us, we'd probably do both, but with children around it's better to be more deliberate in keeping the season in order.

In general, this period of your marriage is a great time to study your Faith more in-depth. Read some good religious books together and discuss them. If nothing else, a good book on Catholic family life should interest you both. I have We and Our Children: How to Make a Catholic Home (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1887593330/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1887593330&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20) from Mary Reed Newland sitting here on my desk -- you two get a copy and read it for me as I seldom find the time to read more than a few pages.  :wink:
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Matthew on November 27, 2012, 12:06:15 AM
Quote from: Catechist99
Well...if they are already married they should......have babies!  To wait is contrary to Sacred Tradition and is a mortal sin.

Taken from the SSPX.org website about using natural means to avoid children until the couple wants them:

Quote
This is the case of those selfish couples who are determined to limit the size of their family from the beginning of their marriage. They are truly married, although their marriage is not pleasing to God, and they will never be able to communicate to their children generosity, the spirit of sacrifice, the love of the Cross, of souls and the Church.



I appreciate your zeal for the truth, but you have to be careful to not come across as that heartless Trad that goes up to people and tells them off ("You're going to hell, you know.") or judges people, even when you might be totally wrong about them and not know what you're talking about.

For example, this post.

You assume they're using NFP or birth control, rather than assuming (as I did) that they were recently married.

You don't always hit the jackpot on the first try, you know. And not everyone has maximum fertility, so even 6 months into a marriage there is no guarantee that any non-contracepting couple will be pregnant. In fact, this becomes more of an issue the older a couple is.

People read about 52 year old women giving birth, and they think mankind has somehow evolved super-fertility in the 21st century. (This is the classic delusion for moderns that use birth control.) The fact is that fertility declines gradually, and at some point dives off a cliff. That point is different for each woman. And mens' fertility declines as well, though the "cliff" is not as certain.
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Catechist99 on November 27, 2012, 12:30:17 AM
It's true I interpreted "before" as they were choosing to wait to have children until they were ready.

My apologies!!!
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Jacob III on November 27, 2012, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: Catechist99
It's true I interpreted "before" as they were choosing to wait to have children until they were ready.

My apologies!!!


Apology accepted! :cheers:

Thanks for the good advice Mater and Matthew.
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Sigismund on November 27, 2012, 08:55:26 PM
Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: Catechist99
Well...if they are already married they should......have babies!  To wait is contrary to Sacred Tradition and is a mortal sin.

Taken from the SSPX.org website about using natural means to avoid children until the couple wants them:

Quote
This is the case of those selfish couples who are determined to limit the size of their family from the beginning of their marriage. They are truly married, although their marriage is not pleasing to God, and they will never be able to communicate to their children generosity, the spirit of sacrifice, the love of the Cross, of souls and the Church.



I appreciate your zeal for the truth, but you have to be careful to not come across as that heartless Trad that goes up to people and tells them off ("You're going to hell, you know.") or judges people, even when you might be totally wrong about them and not know what you're talking about.

For example, this post.

You assume they're using NFP or birth control, rather than assuming (as I did) that they were recently married.

You don't always hit the jackpot on the first try, you know. And not everyone has maximum fertility, so even 6 months into a marriage there is no guarantee that any non-contracepting couple will be pregnant. In fact, this becomes more of an issue the older a couple is.

People read about 52 year old women giving birth, and they think mankind has somehow evolved super-fertility in the 21st century. (This is the classic delusion for moderns that use birth control.) The fact is that fertility declines gradually, and at some point dives off a cliff. That point is different for each woman. And mens' fertility declines as well, though the "cliff" is not as certain.


And some couples will never conceive, even if they never use contraception.
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Catechist99 on November 27, 2012, 11:14:56 PM
Sounds like you will be a great daddy since you are making these plans in advance.  All blessings in the family flows through the father and yours will be blessed greatly because you have great love.

The best way to love your children is to love their mommy as Christ loves the Church.  Sacrificially in addition to romantically.  I know you will do that.

Now for the activities.....if you already don't have the habit of praying the daily family Rosary now is the time to start.  Once you acquire that habit you'll miss it if you don't do it.

Familiarize yourself with the Catholic Holy Days and begin to incorporate the celebration of feast days especially the Marian feasts.  

You might also consider discussing whether you will celebrate your child's birthday or saints day.  Some people don't do the birthday but rather the saint's day.  Maybe you can do both!

This may be unpopular....develop the habit now of living WITHOUT television.  

If you have sons it's imperative that you spend a large amount of time everyday engaging them in "rough" and masculine activities.  Even as babies.   Bishop Williamson has long been an advocate of fathers spending more time with their sons then the mother does.  

 :baby:
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Nadir on November 28, 2012, 12:22:41 AM
Quote from: Catechist99

You might also consider discussing whether you will celebrate your child's birthday or saints day.  Some people don't do the birthday but rather the saint's day.  Maybe you can do both!


Also how you will celebrate Christmas. Will you introduce Santa Claus into your family?

Quote from: Catechist99

This may be unpopular....develop the habit now of living WITHOUT television.  
 :baby:


Very wise words, Catechist! It's absolutely essential to ban the TV if you want to do the right thing by yourselves and your children.
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Tiffany on November 28, 2012, 06:38:46 AM
Put the works of mercy in your lifestyle.
Not all but it seems like many children and young adults today are self centered.
I don't know if it's the result of affluence or just the influence of our pagan culture because their parents are often generous people.

When your first baby is born life will become very busy! It will take a planned effort to keep doing things for others, because "tyranny of the urgent" kicks in once you have children. :)
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Traditional Guy 20 on November 28, 2012, 06:47:27 AM
As some have already said:

Cut out television and movies, go to Mass together on Sunday (that should be a given anyway), listen to classical music, so to (some) operas, exercise together (although you can and should do sports your wife should not do), know religious instruction to prepare that instruction for your children, if you do not know how to box learn so you can teach your sons how to defend themselves, if you do not know how to shoot a weapon learn that so you can teach your sons for sport, etc.

As some have said already it is good for the father to teach their sons these things along with outdoor activities and learning to work hard at blue-collar work. For daughters it would be good to center their education on preparing them for motherhood of course.
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Sigismund on November 28, 2012, 09:24:27 PM
Quote from: Catechist99
Sounds like you will be a great daddy since you are making these plans in advance.  All blessings in the family flows through the father and yours will be blessed greatly because you have great love.

The best way to love your children is to love their mommy as Christ loves the Church.  Sacrificially in addition to romantically.  I know you will do that.

Now for the activities.....if you already don't have the habit of praying the daily family Rosary now is the time to start.  Once you acquire that habit you'll miss it if you don't do it.

Familiarize yourself with the Catholic Holy Days and begin to incorporate the celebration of feast days especially the Marian feasts.  

You might also consider discussing whether you will celebrate your child's birthday or saints day.  Some people don't do the birthday but rather the saint's day.  Maybe you can do both!

This may be unpopular....develop the habit now of living WITHOUT television.  

If you have sons it's imperative that you spend a large amount of time everyday engaging them in "rough" and masculine activities.  Even as babies.   Bishop Williamson has long been an advocate of fathers spending more time with their sons then the mother does.  

 :baby:


Excellent advice, especially about television.  

We celebrated both birthdays and saint's days for our kids.  Birthdays were just fun.  We tried to make saint's days educational and devotional,

We were fortunate enough to have a room in our house to use as a chapel of sorts.   When my wife and I first married, We placed a large crucifix and icons of the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts there, along with an icon of St. Joseph.  My wife had the idea to place images of our patron saints there too, so we included an Icon of St. Anne and a statue of St. Michael.  We included icons or other images for the patron saints of our children as they were born, and for other family members and friends as well.  
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Sigismund on November 28, 2012, 09:27:46 PM
Quote from: Nadir
Quote from: Catechist99

You might also consider discussing whether you will celebrate your child's birthday or saints day.  Some people don't do the birthday but rather the saint's day.  Maybe you can do both!


Also how you will celebrate Christmas. Will you introduce Santa Claus into your family?

Quote from: Catechist99

This may be unpopular....develop the habit now of living WITHOUT television.  
 :baby:


Very wise words, Catechist! It's absolutely essential to ban the TV if you want to do the right thing by yourselves and your children.


I suggest skipping Sana, but make a big deal out of St. Nicholas.  Tell your kids the story of his life.  We always had the kids put their shoes outside their bedroom door.  When they were asleep, I would draw a Byzantine cross on their doors with red chalk and leave some candy by their shoes.  
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Sigismund on November 28, 2012, 09:29:43 PM
Jacob III ,

Are you Maronite?

I am asking because of your avatar.
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Jacob III on November 28, 2012, 10:54:35 PM
Quote from: Sigismund
Jacob III ,

Are you Maronite?

I am asking because of your avatar.


No, Latin Rite. Jacob is my real name though, so that is why I used St. Jacob of Nisibis. St. Patrick is my patron.
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Mabel on November 30, 2012, 11:55:56 AM
A few suggestions, if I may:
1. build up your library so there are always good books in the house, books on Catholic marriage, family life, the liturgical year, moral theology, even a few on medicine come in handy
2. What people say about works of mercy are true, after kids come, there isn't the amount of time you might need to help others, in fact you might find yourself on the receiving side
3. establish a family prayer habit, like the rosary after dinner or at a set time
4. as others have said, practice life without tv, in other words, start setting up the environment you would like to raise your child in, now
5. pray for children every day, and for a healthy pregnancy
6. go out to eat, if that is your thing, you may never be able to afford it again
7. Ask yourselves, what skills would help me in my duties according to state in life? Knitting, woodworking, fixing the car, cooking etc? And maybe take a class or learn from someone else.
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: MaterDominici on November 30, 2012, 12:32:50 PM
Quote from: Mabel
5. pray for children every day, and for a healthy pregnancy


Oh, that reminds me... even if your wife isn't pregnant or at the latest, the minute you know she is, watch The Business of Being Born (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054LZ0VO/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0054LZ0VO&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20).
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Tiffany on November 30, 2012, 05:58:43 PM
One thing is not really faith related but makes life less stressful is to simplify as much as you can. Get rid of clutter and things you can do without.
Learn how to clean a bathroom and kitchen quickly. Get in the habit of doing 2 min cleaning things here and there without the entire job being done. You won't have uninterrupted time to clean like you did before kids. For example in the morning after you brush your teeth wipe down the bathroom sink and take out the bathroom trash. Make your bed as soon as you get out of it. Sometimes you can only wash the dishes & utensils for 5 minutes but not the pot and mixing bowl.  It really helps and keeps things from getting out of hand.
Check out some crockpot cookbooks or look them up online. It will help prevent you from needing fast food or stress about dinner while adjusting to life with a newborn.
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Sigismund on November 30, 2012, 10:38:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob III
Quote from: Sigismund
Jacob III ,

Are you Maronite?

I am asking because of your avatar.


No, Latin Rite. Jacob is my real name though, so that is why I used St. Jacob of Nisibis. St. Patrick is my patron.


Well, may St. Jacob and St. Patrick bless you with their intercession.
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Jacob III on November 30, 2012, 10:47:54 PM
Mabel and Mater, thanks for the great advice!
Title: What family activities should young married couples not yet blessed with
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 04, 2012, 08:53:45 PM
Quote from: MaterDominici
This is a good time to work on establishing holiday practices that you'd like to be second-nature year after year. Even something as simple as deciding when you'll put up a Christmas tree and how long it will stay after Christmas will streamline things in the future.

Here, we love music and it's hard not to pull out our favorite Christmas hymns right about NOW, but we'll be doing our best to focus on Advent and prioritize prayer and study until Christmas is actually here. If it were just the two of us, we'd probably do both, but with children around it's better to be more deliberate in keeping the season in order.

In general, this period of your marriage is a great time to study your Faith more in-depth. Read some good religious books together and discuss them. If nothing else, a good book on Catholic family life should interest you both. I have We and Our Children: How to Make a Catholic Home (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1887593330/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1887593330&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20) from Mary Reed Newland sitting here on my desk -- you two get a copy and read it for me as I seldom find the time to read more than a few pages.  :wink:



This hits close to home.

I couldn't wait to read the whole thread, so forgive me if it's already been
covered.

But Christmas music is traditionally reserved for Christmas Day!  This is
really very important, for when you do it, it makes Christmas really shine.

For, when on Christmas Day the first hymns of Silent Night and Hark! The
Harold Angels Sing, and Adeste Fideles, and Oh, Holy Night, and O Little
Town of Bethlehem, and The First Noel,  and O Come, Little Children, and
Away in a Manger, and God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, and Joy to the World,
Oh Come All Ye Faithful, and What Child Is This?, and Lo How a Rose E're
Blooming, and It Came Upon a Midnight Clear are heard throughout the
land, it is absolutely magical.

What can you do then to prepare for Christmas with music, if you don't
have any Christmas music before December 25th?  

There is a whole season of Advent music that is proper to, well, Advent:

Hark! A Mystic Voice is Sounding
On Jordan's Bank, the Baptist's Cry
Conditor alme siderum
O Come, O Come, Emmanuel
Dixit Maria,
Angel Gabriel
Maria Walks Amid the Thorn
Stella Fulgens (excellent composition by Richard K. Biggs)
Ave Maris Stella (my favorite is by Grieg!)
Creator of the Stars of Night
Sleepers, Awake! (Wachet auf! in German (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCULWK4tNuc)- see 13:25 - 17:10)
Magnificat


The following is from an Episcopal website (http://fullhomelydivinity.org/articles/advent%20hymns.htm), of all things!

http://fullhomelydivinity.org/articles/advent%20hymns.htm

Hymns of Advent

The ubiquitous "sounds of Christmas," in shops, elevators, and on radio and TV, are among the most powerful influences on us to think about Christmas, rather than Advent, from the middle of November on. As a parody once put it, "Hark, the herald angels cry,/ telling us, 'Go out and buy.'" Once a catchy tune (even, sometimes, a bad tune!) begins ringing in our ears and repeating again and again in our head, it is difficult to get it out. And the subconscious effect on our mood and our attitudes is substantial. Thus, one of the ways we can work on rediscovering Advent is to learn some of the rich hymnody that has been composed for the season.  It is not likely to replace the music that is piped into public places, but iPods and other portable devices now make it possible to have our own musical backgrounds, no matter what is going on around us. We also have the ability to startle those around us by programming cell phone ring tones with short bursts of seasonal tunes. The truth is that modern technology has the potential to become the best defense (and revenge!) against the intrusions of modern culture. A selection of Advent CDs is available at our bookshop.

As we have noted elsewhere, hymns can be profoundly theological. Indeed, for many people they are a primary source of theological understanding, and this is as it should be in a Church that takes seriously the rule lex orandi lex credendi ("we believe what we pray"). Most of the hymns we highlight here are found in The Hymnal 1982 ("TH 82" below) of the Episcopal Church in the U.S., but we also draw on other sources. If a hymn title is underlined, clicking on it will take you to a page of one of the online hymnals that provide further information and, often, a midi recording of the tune. There are a lot of good Advent hymns and we have not attempted to include them all here, but you will find some of the best (in our opinion) and a few that may be new to you.


Apparently Episcopals have their own musical tradition for Advent going
back to the 16th century.  I'll admit I don't know much about that......
I thought this was interesting:


Remaking Christmas (http://thinkingworship.com/category/liturgical-year/advent/)
24 11 2012

Advent begins next Sunday – but the stores have been decorated and pumping out Christmas music for weeks already. This year makes a record for me: I saw my first tree on August 29. Well done Costco. Each year the music seems to get louder. The tinsel seems more garish. Each year Santa Claus gets bigger, and the manger fades just a little farther into the background. Even in Christian churches. Even in Christian homes. Even in Christian hearts.

That is what makes me saddest.

“How insidiously did the enemy work to slowly hijack Jesus’ birth and hand it over on a silver platter to Big Marketing, tricking His own followers into financing the confiscation? We all know it. We all feel it. Every year we bear this tension. Each December, the world feels off kilter. But in the absence of a better plan or an alternative rhythm or – let’s just say it – courage, we feed the machine yet again, giving Jesus lip service while teaching our kids to ask Santa for whatever they want, because, you know, that’s really what Christmas boils down to.”

A friend of mine shared Jen Hatmaker’s 2011 post “The Christmas Conundrum” on facebook, and I want to share it with you – because it spoke to me, and it might speak to you as well. In it, Jen asks the question: “What if a bunch of us pulled out of the system? What if we said something very radical . . . like: ‘Our family is going to celebrate Jesus this year in a manner worthy of a humble Savior who was born to two poor teenagers in a barn and yet still managed to rescue humanity.’”

What if.

Please follow the link to read the whole post. This woman’s got some great ideas: http://jenhatmaker.com/blog/2011/11/29/the-christmas-conundrum




Contents from the St. John's College Cambridge website, Advent CD:


Drop down ye heavens, Lloyd
Lo! He comes with clouds descending
Advent Antiphons
Adam lay y-bounden, Ord
The Lord at first did Adam make, Guest
Es ist das Heil uns kommen her, Brahms
A spotless rose, Howells
There is no rose, Machonchy
Ave Maria, Mendelssohn
Hymn to the Virgin, Britten
I sing of a maiden, Hadley
This have I done for my true love, Holst
Magnificat (Gloucester), Howells
Benedicamus Domino, Warlock
O little town of Bethlehem, Walford Davis




Overall, the trend I've observed over my own lifetime since before the
most regrettable Council, has been a gradually increasing
commercialization, but one that has advanced with a disturbing pace in
the past 3 or 4 years -- the Obama years, come to think of it!  

Put together with other news and opinions afoot, and it's not too much
of a stretch to say that Christmas is being abolished as we speak.  For
this year, I saw Christmas displays up before the end of October.  The
Halloween displays were getting picked over but literally, right behind
them, the Christmas goodies were getting lined up, and the morning of
All Saints' Day, it was out with the old and in with the new! All the
costumes were GONE and the stocking stuffers took over the aisles
with a vengeance.  Next year they'll have to provide a Christmas
SECTION during October to top this.

The piped-in Christmas carols began before Halloween, but erupted
full bore, assaulting the ears of shoppers during November.  I heard
strangers saying that they are already tired of Christmas.  And this
was not yet the end of November:   it was not yet Advent.  But it was
"Christ the King" for the Novordiens, instead of Matthew 24.  

They were tired of Christmas, it seems to me, because they were tired
of thinking how tired they are going to become of Christmas by the
time it gets here, because, it seems to me, that keeping up their
enthusiasm for a month has worn them out for many years in a row,
and now they're tired of thinking about being tired of how tired they
will soon be
-- of being tired.  Got it?

Not only do they experience this tiredness on Christ the King Sunday
(improperly moved to the end of November from the end of October
in order to extinguish the idea of  the Social Reign of Jesus Christ,
King) but it now has infected the family gathering of Thanksgiving Day,
when family members they haven't seen in a year or two are all
complaining about how they're surprised to find that Christmas is
feeling too much like a chore this year.  I literally saw many dumpsters
at apartment buildings the day after Thanksgiving Day, filled with
empty boxes from opened large gifts and torn up Christmas wrapping
paper, from gift exchanges that happened a month early because
that's when mommy and daddy meet up and don't argue any more
for only one day so the kids can have one day of family fun out of
365 days of family separation due to divorce, the new sacrament.  

The new trend seems to be that gift giving is over, everyone is eating
holiday foods, the parties are in full swing and everyone is doing their
best to pretend to be having a good time, even though they're tired
of the Christmas theme altogether,  they don't really believe this
manger thing anyway, and thanks to B16's new book, the Church
doesn't either.  So what's the point?  This is how Christmas is being
extinguished.  

The commercialization of Christmas now extends into August, and
maybe it will make it into July in 2013.  But to be sure, by the time
December 25th arrives, it will have been long since over for most
erstwhile participants.  Throw in Ramadan, High Holy Days, Chanukah,
Kwanza, and I don't know what-all, and the jig is up.

Last year, the apartment dumpsters were filled to overflowing with
abandoned Christmas trees, many of which were artificial, the day
after Christmas, a.k.a. the Feast of St. Stephen, Protomartyr.  

And now, for the bright side:

When you only enjoy Advent music during Advent, and save the Christmas
carols for Christmas, you are fully encouraged to continue enjoying
Christmas not only for 12 days, and to January 6th with the Greeks, but
all the way up to February 2nd, Candlemas or the Feast of the Purification
a.k.a. the Presentation -- mystery of the Rosary.   (But not "groundhog
day." That's a good example of the Freemasons invading Church territory.)

You get 33 days of Christmas, 4-1/2 weeks.  And during that time, we can
fully expect to get some strange looks from others who see us having
Christmas for so long.  But that's when we can ask them, "When did you
start having YOUR Christmas this year?" and "I wasn't having Christmas
all during December and Advent, so it's still fresh to me!" and "It's really
great to take full advantage of all the after-Christmas sales!"  That ought
to get under the skin of the merchandisers, the money-changers.

Traditionally, Advent is a penitential season, not as Lent, but to a lesser
degree.  In the infant Church Advent was more penitential than our
Lent is today!  That is the significance of Gaudete Sunday, the third
of 4 penitential weeks, for it tells us, "only one more week to go."  Well,
one more week of what, parties?  No, one more week of voluntary
mortification of the flesh.  If you can't do that during Advent, then how
would you do it during May, June, July, August, September, and October,
like the Fatima shepherd children did so well?  And they're all saints in
heaven!