Author Topic: What Does God Ordain for a Valid Marriage to Take Place? (Read 2258 times)

Truth is Eternal · « **on:** April 29, 2012, 07:09:42 PM »

I have been hearing for a very long time from many people who call themselves Christian that people should not have sex before Marriage yet most of them do not seem to understand Marriage is much more than just abstaining from sex before Marriage. God gave us Marriage with the sole purpose of bringing Children into the world to train them them in Catholic faith in order to populate heaven.

Can a man and a woman have a valid Marriage if they did not receive the Catholic Sacrament of marriage?

Is order to receive the Sacrament of Marriage does the Traditional Catholic Mass have to be said within the ceremony?

Can a Protestant perform the Catholic Sacrament of Marriage?

Can someone who got married by the justice of peace claim to not have a valid marriage and then receive the Sacrament of Marriage in a Traditional Catholic Church with a new partner?

Can a man and a woman have a strong, intimate and loving relationship without the Sacrament of Marriage?

If someone comes to the knowledge they are in an invalid marriage with illegitimate children, what is their moral duty in this situation?

I am not Married but as the moral fabric of society falls apart I have been asking myself, “What does God ordain for a valid Marriage to take place?"

copticruiser · « **Reply #1 on:** April 29, 2012, 11:26:59 PM »

Im not the one to answer as Im no apologetic but I do try to remember a few jugulars of our faith.

First of all YOU NEED the Council Of Trent Catchism it is so straight forward and encompasses all our faith explaining it thoroughly.

Sacrament of Marriage is valid everywhere including Pagan religions cause the sacrament is between Man and Woman. The priest merely blesses the union.

Muslims who converted to Catholism had to dismiss their 4 wives and the first was recognized.

The catechism clearly states that all marriages pagan or not were valid that is why we have issue with these catholics who say they have found God remarried in the church and its ok cause the previous union wasnt in a church. That is a bunch of BULL.

Marriage is Death till u part and NO it doesnt even have to be a christian marriage it is still a marriage and usually kids are proof of it.

Like I said Im no apologetic but I do know that one and getting that catechism is a life long asset on various topics like these.

Hope that helps

Your friendly canadian :farmer:

Telesphorus · « **Reply #2 on:** April 30, 2012, 01:14:38 AM »

Quote

I have been hearing for a very long time from many people who call themselves Christian that people should not have sex before Marriage

If they didn't say that they couldn't legitimately call themselves Christians.

Quote

yet most of them do not seem to understand Marriage is much more than just abstaining from sex before Marriage

They don't understand that it's more than that? Could you explain?

Quote

God gave us Marriage with the sole purpose of bringing Children into the world to train them them in Catholic faith in order to populate heaven.

That's right. Can you tell us who has been saying otherwise?

Quote

Can a man and a woman have a valid Marriage if they did not receive the Catholic Sacrament of marriage?

Short answer, yes. However, baptized Catholics are required to marry as Catholics.

Quote

Is order to receive the Sacrament of Marriage does the Traditional Catholic Mass have to be said within the ceremony?

Catholic marriage does not have to take place in the context of mass.

Quote

Can a Protestant perform the Catholic Sacrament of Marriage?

In Catholic theology, the form and matter of the sacrament does not depend on the priest. However, to have a valid marriage, usually it is required to have the cooperation of the priest with proper jurisdiction.

Quote

Can someone who got married by the justice of peace claim to not have a valid marriage and then receive the Sacrament of Marriage in a Traditional Catholic Church with a new partner?

That would depend on many things. You would need to talk to a priest about. Civil marriages of baptized Catholics were not traditionally valid.

Quote

Can a man and a woman have a strong, intimate and loving relationship without the Sacrament of Marriage?

Can non-Christians have strong, intimate and loving relationships? I suppose it is possible in some sense, since they have a natural morality engraved in their hearts. However, someone who is a Catholic should marry another Catholic in a sacramental marriage.

Quote

If someone comes to the knowledge they are in an invalid marriage with illegitimate children, what is their moral duty in this situation?

You need to talk to a traditional priest about this. Children of annulled marriages are not considered illegitimate.

Quote

I am not Married but as the moral fabric of society falls apart I have been asking myself, “What does God ordain for a valid Marriage to take place?"

That's a question to ask a traditional priest versed in canon law. But if there were no clear impediments, not the subjective nonsense that's used today to "annull" a marriage, but the impediments that were traditionally held to be impediments, then you should presume that the marriage was valid.

Truth is Eternal · « **Reply #3 on:** April 30, 2012, 11:51:56 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote
I have been hearing for a very long time from many people who call themselves Christian that people should not have sex before Marriage

If they didn't say that they couldn't legitimately call themselves Christians. They

Quote
So many people who cal themselves Christians are right when they say a couple should not have sex before Marriage yet they refuse the Sacramental Graces of Marriage. God is willing to send them.

Quote
yet most of them do not seem to understand Marriage is much more than just abstaining from sex before Marriage

They don't understand that it's more than that? Could you explain?

Quote
Many people I have met who call themselves Christians seem to think they are exempt from the Traditional view of Marriage. They convince themselves all they have to tell their children is just believe in Jesus and you are saved.

Quote
God gave us Marriage with the sole purpose of bringing Children into the world to train them them in Catholic faith in order to populate heaven.

That's right. Can you tell us who has been saying otherwise?

Quote
Most Protestants and Vatican 2 people I know do not understand why God created Marriage.

songbird · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2012, 02:43:02 PM »

In order to marry in a True Catholic Church, if both spouses are catholic, IF they desire a Sacrament, they must be in the State of Grace or no sacrament takes place. I have been told in the New Order, that couples who were never married, to show that they are single(maybe for the reason to collect state benefits?)and then are married in the New Order, but they did not have confession, then no sacrament takes place. This is basic Catholic catechism. You may be asking not civil marriage, but sacramental marriage. A big difference.

LordPhan · « **Reply #5 on:** May 01, 2012, 03:13:43 PM »

Quote from: songbird

In order to marry in a True Catholic Church, if both spouses are catholic, IF they desire a Sacrament, they must be in the State of Grace or no sacrament takes place. I have been told in the New Order, that couples who were never married, to show that they are single(maybe for the reason to collect state benefits?)and then are married in the New Order, but they did not have confession, then no sacrament takes place. This is basic Catholic catechism. You may be asking not civil marriage, but sacramental marriage. A big difference.

I advise the OP to ask these questions to his Priest, there is a marriage Catechism that is given to all who are getting prepared for marriage, the one the SSPX uses is pre-vatican 2. Then there are classes that are given.

You are going to get incorrect answers from anyone else.

s2srea · « **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2012, 03:17:12 PM »

Quote from: LordPhan

Quote from: songbird
In order to marry in a True Catholic Church, if both spouses are catholic, IF they desire a Sacrament, they must be in the State of Grace or no sacrament takes place. I have been told in the New Order, that couples who were never married, to show that they are single(maybe for the reason to collect state benefits?)and then are married in the New Order, but they did not have confession, then no sacrament takes place. This is basic Catholic catechism. You may be asking not civil marriage, but sacramental marriage. A big difference.

I advise the OP to ask these questions to his Priest, there is a marriage Catechism that is given to all who are getting prepared for marriage, the one the SSPX uses is pre-vatican 2. Then there are classes that are given.

You are going to get incorrect answers from anyone else.

+1

Cheryl · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2012, 10:40:30 AM »

Quote from: Truth is Eternal

Can someone who got married by the justice of peace claim to not have a valid marriage and then receive the Sacrament of Marriage in a Traditional Catholic Church with a new partner?
/b][/u]"

I can only answer this question with certainty since I have had personally been there, done that.

The answer is yes. My husband and I had to live as brother and sister the week prior to our marriage. On our wedding day we had to go to confession and then we were all set to receive the Sacrament of Marriage.

I would like to thank you for bringing up the question regarding the legitimacy of the children born before the Sacrament of Marriage was bestowed. I really never thought of it before. I have sent an email to Father asking him your question.

liannerenee · « **Reply #8 on:** May 08, 2012, 12:33:29 PM »

What if you had not gone to confession? Would the marriage still be valid?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2012, 12:41:45 PM »

Quote from: liannerenee

What if you had not gone to confession? Would the marriage still be valid?

The validity of sacraments doesn't depend on the state of grace.

Could you imagine someone claiming an annulment on the grounds that they were in a state of sin?

songbird · « **Reply #10 on:** May 08, 2012, 04:01:34 PM »

No Mortal Sin! I am not talking venial. Question was: In the eyes of God, what makes for a valid "sacrament". No mortal sin. Marriage takes place?, but no Sacrament in mortal sin. Makes common sense to me as well as to God.

LordPhan · « **Reply #11 on:** May 08, 2012, 09:32:19 PM »

Quote from: songbird

No Mortal Sin! I am not talking venial. Question was: In the eyes of God, what makes for a valid "sacrament". No mortal sin. Marriage takes place?, but no Sacrament in mortal sin. Makes common sense to me as well as to God.

Tele is right, what you have said in incorrect, the Sacrament takes place, however it is ILLICIT. People seem to confuse the two terms.

Validity is whether something takes place, Licitness is whether it is allowed or not.

If you take communion in a state of mortal sin you still get communion, however you commit the mortal sin of sacrilidge. It is the same in the case of marriage.

Cheryl · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2012, 08:08:28 AM »

To answer the question regarding the legitimacy of children born before a catholic couple receive the Sacrament of Marriage...

The children are considered illegitimate.

And if anyone wants to know where the info came from, it came from my priest.