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Author Topic: What are we to do?  (Read 2216 times)

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Offline Marys Anawim

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What are we to do?
« on: May 20, 2020, 10:00:27 AM »
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  • Hello...I would like to hear from other trad catholics who are seeing all that is going on. It is definitely demonic and a sign of the times we are in. My husband and I thought we had another 1-2 years before all this type of craziness...the catalyst would begin. We are praying and doing extra penance, but our main concern is our children. I don't know how many of you know about the evil pedophila that has been reigning in our nation for at least 40 years. We must do all we can to protect our children. Also the fact that Child protective services (CPS) is a front agency to help the pedophilia rings. 
    So now this trace testing and operation warp speed using the military to basically force vacs...we already must move from our current location due to our landlord basically saying that we cannot live here if we are not vaccinated. 
    what do we do if/when the trace contacts come to the door to test us? I am against testing because of the consequences such as taking our children away because we test "positive" and who knows what will happen past that. 
    we ae placing our trust in God but we have to be prudent about the situation and when you look at the Bible and church history...God's people didn't just sit around and say we are trusting in God to protect us. No Noah built an ark, Lot ran out of the city, the macabeens hid in the mountains, the early christians hid in the catacombs, and when the faith was "legalized" and then threatened the Christians fought the enemy.
    I don't believe we are in the time of fighting because we are in the time of persecution and so in order to guard the faith we must go underground, but how, where, when?
    They have these drones everywhere...will it be possible to refuse the vaccines or say no to testing? Should we flee before the testers come?  


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #1 on: May 20, 2020, 10:17:56 AM »
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  • First of all, your landlord has just exposed himself to a major lawsuit for housing discrimination.

    Secondly, Trump has said that the vaccine will be voluntary.

    Thirdly, depending on what state you are in, you can refuse testing.

    Fourthly, if the vaccine contains aborted fetal matter, you must fight to the death not to take it, lest you lose your soul.  This will be the moral obligation of Catholics worldwide.

    Fifthly, supposing you don’t mind being property of the state, or have any health concerns regarding the vaccine, you could take it if it did not contain aborted fetal matter IF YOU CHOOSE TO.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Mr G

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #2 on: May 20, 2020, 10:28:15 AM »
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  • Hello...I would like to hear from other trad catholics who are seeing all that is going on... ...I don't believe we are in the time of fighting because we are in the time of persecution and so in order to guard the faith we must go underground, but how, where, when?
    They have these drones everywhere...will it be possible to refuse the vaccines or say no to testing? Should we flee before the testers come?  
    If you are able to move to another apartment that is less restrictive, then do that, or you may have to move to another state that is less restrictive. But first you might want to contact some anti-vaccine group or other organization and file a law suit. Call the Thomas More Society and see what options you have.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #3 on: May 20, 2020, 10:47:39 AM »
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  • Fourthly, if the vaccine contains aborted fetal matter, you must fight to the death not to take it, lest you lose your soul.  This will be the moral obligation of Catholics worldwide.

    I think, all you have to do is say and show that the injection is against your will.

    If e.g. your choice is either to kill someone or to get the injection, you may choose not to kill. Also, you may choose the injection over being killed.

    There may even be fetal tissue in food (I'd say that's highly improbable but not impossible). You won't lose your soul if you're fooled into eating it.


    How do you justify saying "you must fight to the death"?
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #4 on: May 20, 2020, 10:51:02 AM »
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  • Trump has said that the vaccine will be voluntary.


    Although Trump may not force us to take the vaccine, the State Health Official can. It was this case that allowed for the forced sterilization. Unless certain states do not cooperate with the NWO eugenics/population reduction goal, it appears this situation may result in physical confrontations.


    https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/mandatory-vaccination-legal-time-epidemic/2006-04
    "When determining the legality of a statute enacted to protect public health and safety, the Court found it immaterial that a portion of the medical community thought the vaccination worthless or even injurious. The state has the right to choose between opposing medical theories and to refer the matter to a board composed of persons residing in the affected location who are qualified to make a determination. The courts do not become involved in legislation formed under the state’s police power as long as it relates substantially to public health, morals, or safety and is not a plain, palpable invasion of rights secured by fundamental law [5]. Furthermore, it is immaterial whether or not the vaccine is actually effective, so long as it is the belief of state authorities that the mandatory vaccine will promote common welfare and is a reasonable and proper exercise of the police power [6]. It is of paramount necessity that a community have the right to protect itself from an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members."

    "The only exception to a mandatory vaccination is an offer of apparent or reasonably certain proof to the state’s board of health that the vaccination would seriously impair health or probably cause death [8]."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #5 on: May 20, 2020, 10:53:44 AM »
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  • I think, all you have to do is say and show that the injection is against your will.

    If e.g. your choice is either to kill someone or to get the injection, you may choose not to kill. Also, you may choose the injection over being killed.

    There may even be fetal tissue in food. You won't lose your soul if you're fooled into eating it.


    How do you justify saying "you must fight to the death"?
    Why couldn’t the early martyrs burn incense to the Roman Gods while saying and showing they did so against their will?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #6 on: May 20, 2020, 11:00:48 AM »
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  • There may even be fetal tissue in food. You won't lose your soul if you're fooled into eating it.


    What if you are not fooled, and you were told that one of the ingredients is aborted babies, but you had to eat it (just once per year) or else you go to prison?

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #7 on: May 20, 2020, 11:15:35 AM »
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  • Why couldn’t the early martyrs burn incense to the Roman Gods while saying and showing they did so against their will?

    Burn the incense is a visible act of apostacy. It's a question concerning the Faith. Different rules apply.

    To be forcefully made a cannibal against one's declared will, is no sin. You didn't kill the unborn child and you didn't choose to inject the tissue.

    What if they put a gun at your son's head and let you choose to get the injection or your son is killed?
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #8 on: May 20, 2020, 11:21:23 AM »
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  • What if you are not fooled, and you were told that one of the ingredients is aborted babies, but you had to eat it (just once per year) or else you go to prison?

    You have to weigh the overall consequences.

     - eat parts of a human corpse against your will
     - leave your family without the father

    Which of the results is the minor offense against God?
     

    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #9 on: May 20, 2020, 11:42:36 AM »
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  • Burn the incense is a visible act of apostacy. It's a question concerning the Faith. Different rules apply.


    Are you sure that the rules apply differently between sins of Faith and those of Morals? 
    St. Maria Goretti died for Catholic morals.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #10 on: May 20, 2020, 11:42:47 AM »
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  • Although Trump may not force us to take the vaccine, the State Health Official can. It was this case that allowed for the forced sterilization. Unless certain states do not cooperate with the NWO eugenics/population reduction goal, it appears this situation may result in physical confrontations.


    https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/mandatory-vaccination-legal-time-epidemic/2006-04
    "When determining the legality of a statute enacted to protect public health and safety, the Court found it immaterial that a portion of the medical community thought the vaccination worthless or even injurious. The state has the right to choose between opposing medical theories and to refer the matter to a board composed of persons residing in the affected location who are qualified to make a determination. The courts do not become involved in legislation formed under the state’s police power as long as it relates substantially to public health, morals, or safety and is not a plain, palpable invasion of rights secured by fundamental law [5]. Furthermore, it is immaterial whether or not the vaccine is actually effective, so long as it is the belief of state authorities that the mandatory vaccine will promote common welfare and is a reasonable and proper exercise of the police power [6]. It is of paramount necessity that a community have the right to protect itself from an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members."

    "The only exception to a mandatory vaccination is an offer of apparent or reasonably certain proof to the state’s board of health that the vaccination would seriously impair health or probably cause death [8]."

    From the same article:

    “The Court decision in Jacobson v Massachusetts is just over 100 years old and has not been revisited in any meaningful way. The Court follows the doctrine of stare decisis, which directs it to follow existing judicial decisions when the same points arise in litigation unless there is sufficient justification for departing from precedent [7]. In this case the Jacobson Court’s ruling has stood—not allowing a single individual to refuse vaccination while he or she remains within the general population on the grounds that to make such an exception would strip the legislative branch of its function to care for the public health and safety when threatened by epidemic disease [8].”

    Commentary:

    1) According to the article, stare decisis (ie., case law precedent) does not necessarily apply if it can be shown that there is sufficient reason (eg., new points arise in litigation, such as freedom of religion in the present case).

    In other words, the cause of action regarding the unconstitutionality of mandatory vaccination in 2020 might be blocked if it arose from a 14th Amendment claim, but the same cause of action arising from freedom of religion is an entirely different argument, and therefore could be considered.

    2) Note also, the the legal opinion above regarding the alleged constitutionality of forced vaccination prevails only against those who “remain within the general population.”
    This seems to imply that, so long as you were willing to remain quarantined, you would not be forced to be vaccinated.
    But indefinite voluntary house arrest is a poor consolation, and a level of tyranny hitherto unknown in world history.

    3) And insofar as such a vaccine would contain aborted fetal matter, obliging every Catholic to reject it, such a policy would be tantamount to the worldwide indefinite suppression of the Catholic religion.

    4) Finally, I note the similarity in the “public interest” rationale allegedly justifying mandatory vaccination, and China’s policy of mandatory abortion: in both cases, the same public interest rationale fails to trump the moral obligation to refuse either requirement.

    PS: The one gray area, promoted even by SSPX priests, is a paper from the Vatican under JPII, which more or less declares that vaccines using cells from aborted embryos lines constitutes “indirect and remote cooperation in evil,” and more or less opened the door to use them.

    I am not competent or confident of working my way through the moral theology of that one, but present the argument merely for the sake of objectivity.  Needless to say, I have grave reservations regarding the moral uprightness of the arguments adduced in that article in favor of using vaccines derived from abortive fetal cells.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #11 on: May 20, 2020, 12:23:16 PM »
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  • Quote
    Fourthly, if the vaccine contains aborted fetal matter, you must fight to the death not to take it, lest you lose your soul.  This will be the moral obligation of Catholics worldwide.
    A moral obligation might exist, if it can be proven that such fetal matter is involved.  Most healthcare professionals are ignorant of the vaccine contents (as are most Americans), which is why vaccines are accepted by the sheeple.  However, one cannot know if fetal cells are in a vaccine by just looking at it, so the moral obligation to avoid such things doesn't come into play.
    .
    There's reports that Mountain Dew has been using fetal cells for years.  How can anyone know this or prove it?  Unless you're a chemist, it would be impossible.  Therefore, in absence of certainty, the moral obligation is non-existent.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #12 on: May 20, 2020, 01:06:46 PM »
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  • A moral obligation might exist, if it can be proven that such fetal matter is involved.  Most healthcare professionals are ignorant of the vaccine contents (as are most Americans), which is why vaccines are accepted by the sheeple.  However, one cannot know if fetal cells are in a vaccine by just looking at it, so the moral obligation to avoid such things doesn't come into play.
    .
    There's reports that Mountain Dew has been using fetal cells for years.  How can anyone know this or prove it?  Unless you're a chemist, it would be impossible.  Therefore, in absence of certainty, the moral obligation is non-existent.

    It is well known that some vaccines contain fetal cell matter (eg., MMR, tetanus, etc), and a Catholic who is aware of that has an obligation to inquire regarding the vaccines they are considering.

    A strategy of “don’t ask/don’t tell” as a strategy to evade culpability would itself be morally illicit in such cases, insofar as it implies moral indifference to good and evil.

    Ignorance in good faith vs deliberate ignorance are not the same thing, morally.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Cera

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #13 on: May 20, 2020, 01:12:21 PM »
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  • There's reports that Mountain Dew has been using fetal cells for years.  How can anyone know this or prove it?  Unless you're a chemist, it would be impossible.  Therefore, in absence of certainty, the moral obligation is non-existent.
    You didn't know, but now you know.
    although There are no aborted embryonic or fetal cells in any of PepsiCo’s final products.
    But: Aborted cells are used in the development of artificial flavor enhancers by biotech company Senomyx, with which PepsiCo signed a four-year, $30 million agreement in 2010 for research and development. No Pepsi products containing Senonymx flavor enhancers should be expected until 2013.
    Senomyx’s disputed cell line is HEK-293, derived from the kidney cells of an aborted baby.

    See more here:
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/confused-about-the-pepsi-fetal-cell-issue-here-are-the-facts
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: What are we to do?
    « Reply #14 on: May 20, 2020, 01:57:18 PM »
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  • Tangentially related:

    "In a three-page letter to Governor Gavin Newsom, the Dept. Of Justice said the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution required churches and other houses of worship be given equal treatment under the law, even when a health emergency has been declared.  “Simply put, there is no pandemic exception to the U.S. Constitution and its Bill of Rights,” Assistant Attorney General Eric Dreiband wrote in the letter."

    Above, I made the argument that, although the 1905 case declaring 14th Amendment arguments could not preclude the state from administering mandatory vaccinations, the decision could be revisited under complaints stemming from violation of the 1st Amendment.

    This rebuke of the California governor by the Department of Justice implicitly (but probably unwittingly) recognizes that argument:

    Essentially, the DOJ is rejecting what the 1905 court explicitly declared: A pandemic cannot be used for an excuse to override/reject the Bill of Rights.

    In fact, by the same rationale, it would seem objections to mandatory vaccination from the 14th Amendment would/should also be back on the table.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-california/u-s-department-of-justice-warns-california-governor-over-pandemic-church-closings-idUSKBN22W04O




    U.S. Department of Justice warns California governor over pandemic church closing

    LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Justice on Tuesday warned California’s governor that his COVID-19 restrictions discriminated against places of worship by preventing them from meeting while businesses and film studios are allowed to carry on working.
    In a three-page letter to Governor Gavin Newsom, the DOJ said the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution required churches and other houses of worship be given equal treatment under the law, even when a health emergency has been declared.
    “Simply put, there is no pandemic exception to the U.S. Constitution and its Bill of Rights,” Assistant Attorney General Eric Dreiband wrote in the letter.

    A spokesman for Newsom, asked for comment, said only that the governor’s office had received the DOJ letter.
    California has one of the strictest stay-at-home orders still in place in response to the coronavirus pandemic. The governor’s four-stage plan allows each of California’s 58 counties to gradually open based on the number of tests, cases, hospitalizations and deaths, among other factors.
    Newsom this week eased restrictions for some counties, making it easier for them to move toward reopening retail stores and restaurants for sit-down dining. He said the state was in discussions with major sports leagues about resuming play..

    The governor also said some workers may begin returning to offices where working from home was not practical, including the entertainment industry in a list of businesses exempted from restrictions.
    “California has not shown why interactions in offices and studios of the entertainment industry, and in-person operations to facilitate nonessential ecommerce, are included on the list as being allowed with social distancing where telework is not practical, while gatherings with social distancing for purposes of religious worship are forbidden, regardless of whether remote worship is practical or not,” the DOJ said in its letter to Newsom.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."