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Author Topic: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like  (Read 2460 times)

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Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2022, 01:20:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on May 18, 2022, 11:33:35 AM
    Just like what us in tradland are suffering without a legitimate Pope.

    It's Traddieland, DL.  I am pretty sure I coined the term and probably should have obtained some sort of trademark :laugh1:
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #16 on: May 19, 2022, 02:00:47 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 18, 2022, 08:48:13 AM
    We fling this term around a bit too loosely, but here’s an actual example of a formal act of apostasy:

    Ironically, you are using the term rather loosely -- that is, incorrectly -- in this instance.  Falling into schism -- i.e., joining a schismatic sect -- is not the same thing as apostatizing.  Heresy, schism and apostasy are three distinct things, thus three different terms.


    https://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=930

    "Perfidiæ is the complete and voluntary abandonment of the Christian religion, whether the apostate embraces another religion such as Paganism, Judaism, Mohammedanism, etc., or merely makes profession of Naturalism, Rationalism, etc. The heretic differs from the apostate in that he only denies one or more of the doctrines of revealed religion, whereas the apostate denies the religion itself, a sin which has always been looked upon as one of the most grievous..."
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #17 on: May 19, 2022, 02:24:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 18, 2022, 09:11:45 AM
     Maybe this priest is sincere and has come to believe in Orthodoxy, but that does not render him a merely material schismatic.  He's a formal schismatic at this point.  Period.

    Yet, SJ, who clearly considers himself extremely well-informed about such matters, is absolutely and embarrassingly wrong in this instance.  I remember when I popped up after a lengthy absence and he told me I wasn't even in his league (Homey said WHA?!?!?!?).  He clearly had no idea who I am and what I'd done on CI before his ignorant ass was even here.  To be fair, although he irks me from time to time with his arrogance and ignorance, I am morally certain he's a good dude and we'd have a blast hanging out, drinking some top-notch bourbon and smoking a few Cubans.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #18 on: May 19, 2022, 06:13:50 AM »
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    • (Blushing)
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #19 on: May 19, 2022, 06:39:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on May 19, 2022, 01:18:04 AM
    Just look at Assisi (1986, The Deuce) if you want to see apostasy in action.  This is child's play in comparison and, unless I am mistaken, he is not actually abandoning the Christian religion altogether, which is what it means to apostatize. See Mortalium animos.

    Yes, technically apostasy refers to infidelity, i.e. adopting a false religion that denies the core essential mysteries, the Holy Trinity and Incarnation.  I think it's often used loosely (and this causes confusion) as applying to someone who formally or officially abandons the Church ... vs. those who continue to show up at Novus Ordo churches while believing maybe 10% of what the Church teaches and that only because it suits them.  I think I saw a number somewhere that nearly half of Novus Ordites question even the existence of God.

    That's in fact the S&S position, that one remains a member of the Church unless one either formally renounces the Church or gets kicked out (excommunicated) by name ... and thus their assertion that Joe Biden is actually a Catholic, while SVs are not.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #20 on: May 19, 2022, 06:40:26 AM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on May 19, 2022, 01:20:37 AM
    It's Traddieland, DL.  I am pretty sure I coined the term and probably should have obtained some sort of trademark :laugh1:

    He altered it slightly precisely so as not to infringe on your intellectual property.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #21 on: May 19, 2022, 06:42:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on May 19, 2022, 02:24:54 AM
    ... I am morally certain he's a good dude and we'd have a blast hanging out, drinking some top-notch bourbon and smoking a few Cubans.

    Just don't bring any marijuana and you're probably right.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #22 on: May 19, 2022, 06:52:20 AM »
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    • There was an indult dude here that I used to butt heads with all the time (Pete Vere), but I actually liked him: Motorcycles, MMA, hunting, cheap beer, etc.  What’s not to like?

    Actually, it’s the fighters on the forum that appeal to me most (2Vermont, Ladislaus, GV, QVD, Pax):

    You have to respect an eloquent fighter, even when disagreeing.  At least, I do.
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    Offline Sir Percival

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #23 on: May 19, 2022, 07:42:00 AM »
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    • Mass formal apostasy

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    “How can the ignorant teach others? How can the licentious make others modest? And how can the impure make others pure? If anyone hates peace, how can he make others peaceable ? Or if anyone has soiled his hands with baseness, how can he cleanse the impurities of another? We read also that if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the ditch [Matt. 15:14]. But first correct yourselves, in order that, free from blame , you may be able to correct those who are subject to you.”

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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #24 on: May 19, 2022, 07:45:12 AM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on May 19, 2022, 01:20:37 AM
    It's Traddieland, DL.  I am pretty sure I coined the term and probably should have obtained some sort of trademark :laugh1:
    I preferly Tradlandia myself
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #25 on: May 19, 2022, 08:23:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 19, 2022, 06:39:21 AM
    Yes, technically apostasy refers to infidelity, i.e. adopting a false religion that denies the core essential mysteries, the Holy Trinity and Incarnation.  I think it's often used loosely (and this causes confusion) as applying to someone who formally or officially abandons the Church ... vs. those who continue to show up at Novus Ordo churches while believing maybe 10% of what the Church teaches and that only because it suits them.  I think I saw a number somewhere that nearly half of Novus Ordites question even the existence of God.

    That's in fact the S&S position, that one remains a member of the Church unless one either formally renounces the Church or gets kicked out (excommunicated) by name ... and thus their assertion that Joe Biden is actually a Catholic, while SVs are not.
    Maybe I’m wrong, but while Assisi would be an act of idolatry it wouldn’t technically be apostasy right?  Like I’d assume the SIN of worshipping with Muslims is different than repudiating Christianity in favor of Islam, at least if we’re being technical which clearly we are here 
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    Offline epiphany

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #26 on: May 19, 2022, 09:39:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on May 19, 2022, 01:20:37 AM
    It's Traddieland, DL.  I am pretty sure I coined the term and probably should have obtained some sort of trademark :laugh1:
    You must be Mr. Paul Hernandez, aka Pablo, aka Pablo the Mexican, aka the lay exorcist, aka chief in charge, because I heard him use that phrase near a decade ago.
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    Offline epiphany

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #27 on: May 19, 2022, 09:43:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 19, 2022, 06:42:49 AM
    Just don't bring any marijuana and you're probably right.
    :laugh1::laugh2:
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    Offline RomanTheo

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #28 on: May 19, 2022, 10:22:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 18, 2022, 08:48:13 AM
    We fling this term around a bit too loosely, but here’s an actual example of a formal act of apostasy:



    Actually, it would be formal heresy, since he entered a church that still professes to be Christian.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: What Formal Apostasy Looks Like
    « Reply #29 on: May 19, 2022, 03:33:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 19, 2022, 06:52:20 AM
    There was an indult dude here that I used to butt heads with all the time (Pete Vere), but I actually liked him: Motorcycles, MMA, hunting, cheap beer, etc.  What’s not to like?

    Actually, it’s the fighters on the forum that appeal to me most (2Vermont, Ladislaus, GV, QVD, Pax):

    You have to respect an eloquent fighter, even when disagreeing.  At least, I do.
    Wow.  OK, now I'm blushing....lol.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)
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