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Author Topic: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?  (Read 22425 times)

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Offline WorldsAway

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Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
« Reply #255 on: November 30, 2022, 06:48:07 PM »
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    • Bumping an older thread here but I have been thinking about the morality of illicit drugs, namely marijuana and cocaine. Since there has been no definitive Church teaching on those two drugs in particular, I would equate their sinfulness with that of drunkenness as "loss of reason", among other things, seems to be why some consider said drugs mortally sinful. I have read that there are three degrees of drunkenness with only the third being mortally sinful, unless circuмstances render the first and second mortal. They are;

    First Degree: Reason becomes slightly disturbed
    Second Degree: The disturbance extends to the bodily organs
    Third Degree: Complete privation of the use of reason

    The signs of the Third Degree: inability to distinguish between good and evil, forgetfulness of what one has said or done while drunk, an unusual or foolish behavior

    Now I do not use marijuana or cocaine, but to the extent of my knowledge neither (used in moderation) leads to a complete privation of the use of reason. Does anyone have thoughts on this, or traditional teaching regarding these drugs?

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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #256 on: November 30, 2022, 08:36:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: WorldsAway on November 30, 2022, 06:48:07 PM
    Bumping an older thread here but I have been thinking about the morality of illicit drugs, namely marijuana and cocaine. Since there has been no definitive Church teaching on those two drugs in particular, I would equate their sinfulness with that of drunkenness as "loss of reason", among other things, seems to be why some consider said drugs mortally sinful. I have read that there are three degrees of drunkenness with only the third being mortally sinful, unless circuмstances render the first and second mortal. They are;

    First Degree: Reason becomes slightly disturbed
    Second Degree: The disturbance extends to the bodily organs
    Third Degree: Complete privation of the use of reason

    The signs of the Third Degree: inability to distinguish between good and evil, forgetfulness of what one has said or done while drunk, an unusual or foolish behavior

    Now I do not use marijuana or cocaine, but to the extent of my knowledge neither (used in moderation) leads to a complete privation of the use of reason. Does anyone have thoughts on this, or traditional teaching regarding these drugs?
    I am curious. Did you read the thread? If I remember well this has been well and truly thrashed out right here in this thread. I don’t like to see a dead horse thrashed. 
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    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #257 on: November 30, 2022, 08:44:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on November 30, 2022, 08:36:57 PM
    I am curious. Did you read the thread? If I remember well this has been well and truly thrashed out right here in this thread. I don’t like to see a dead horse thrashed.
    I skimmed it. Saw quite a bit of personal attacks and nonsense posts from the first page onward, so I didn't read it carefully. I guess I should have made a new thread as I am actually more interested in user's thoughts on cocaine usage, but I included marijuana to fit the subject of the thread.
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    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Online Mark 79

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #258 on: November 30, 2022, 08:58:46 PM »
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    • [sigh] At the risk of another flame war…

    There is a solid case supported by Catholic moral theology for the judicious use of MJ medically and recreationally by certain people. (see the thread)

    I do not believe the same can be said for cocaine because of the risks to your temple of the Holy Ghost.
    • high potential for rapid development of addiction, especially for free-basing, crack, and IV use
    • pre-COVID the cardiac irritant combined with coronary artery spasm effects made cocaine the #1 cause of heart attacks in teens and young adults
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    Offline Donachie

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #259 on: November 30, 2022, 09:18:41 PM »
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    • Marijuana is not the same as alcohol or tobacco. Jesus would never have smoked dope with the apostles or anybody else. Marijuana is a gateway drug and cocaine's not good either. If they say some people usded to smoke rope and rope was hemp, the kind of hemp that is used for rope is not the same as the plant and leaf that is used for marijuana. The varierty of plant used for marijuana is much more concentrated than the the hemp George Washington grew, for example, since some people want to act like George Washington was a hemp famer extraordinaire, etc., and that would justify smoking weed.

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    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #260 on: November 30, 2022, 09:20:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on November 30, 2022, 08:58:46 PM

    I do not believe the same can be said for cocaine because of the risks to your temple of the Holy Ghost.
    • high potential for rapid development of addiction, especially for free-basing, crack, and IV use
    • pre-COVID the cardiac irritant combined with coronary artery spasm effects made cocaine the #1 cause of heart attacks in teens and young adults
    Good points. Could the same be said for cigarette smoking? Nicotine dependency can develop very soon after one begins smoking, and cigarette smoking is said to be the leading cause of preventable disease and death in the US
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    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Online Mark 79

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #261 on: November 30, 2022, 09:24:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: WorldsAway on November 30, 2022, 09:20:23 PM

    Good points. Could the same be said for cigarette smoking? Nicotine dependency can develop very soon after one begins smoking, and cigarette smoking is said to be the leading cause of preventable disease and death in the US


    Part of the nervous system is named after its susceptibility to nicotine poisoning. Is there any benefit to smoking tobacco???
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    Offline Donachie

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #262 on: November 30, 2022, 09:28:11 PM »
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    • People have their vices and some are worse than others. One reason out of many not to believe Medjugorje is that the BVM is said to have first appeared to the kids while they were smoking cigarettes out behind a shed. I don't believe the BVM's going to appear to anybody smoking cigarettes, and that's way before weed. I think smoking weed's another vice and worse than alcohol or tobacco.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #263 on: November 30, 2022, 10:20:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: Donachie on November 30, 2022, 09:28:11 PM
    People have their vices and some are worse than others. One reason out of many not to believe Medjugorje is that the BVM is said to have first appeared to the kids while they were smoking cigarettes out behind a shed. I don't believe the BVM's going to appear to anybody smoking cigarettes, and that's way before weed. I think smoking weed's another vice and worse than alcohol or tobacco.

    Why not?  In and of itself, smoking tobacco is no sin. 

    I was sneaking an illicit cigarette in my high school boys' restroom when I got to talking to another student (who did not smoke) about becoming a Catholic, he said "so why don't you?", and I called the priest that afternoon.  (I didn't mention the smoking.)

    I was received into the Church a few months later, baptized and confirmed.

    Who can say what I would have done if I hadn't been in that restroom, smoking that cigarette, and getting in that conversation?  (To be fair, it had been on my mind for some time.)
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    Offline Jimmy

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #264 on: November 30, 2022, 11:12:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on November 30, 2022, 10:20:23 PM
    Why not?  In and of itself, smoking tobacco is no sin.

    I was sneaking an illicit cigarette in my high school boys' restroom when I got to talking to another student (who did not smoke) about becoming a Catholic, he said "so why don't you?", and I called the priest that afternoon.  (I didn't mention the smoking.)

    I was received into the Church a few months later, baptized and confirmed.

    Who can say what I would have done if I hadn't been in that restroom, smoking that cigarette, and getting in that conversation?  (To be fair, it had been on my mind for some time.)
    Haha, I like the conversion story. I had many a good deep conversation with my brother sneaking a cigarette on the roof at 1:00 am. He would never smoke, I was the degenerate, but he would hang out with me :).

    Obviously I'm not a good person to go to for advice, seeing as I am sort of new coming back to the Faith. However, I know many good people who smoke, and I have a good friend who does weed occasionally. He's not a Catholic, but he is still able to regulate and to be in control of his senses, and he's a good guy. I wouldn't recommend getting into drugs, because I also know many folks who ruined their life with the stuff. I work in an area where there are needles everywhere and hoboes all over the place. People usually don't start off with the big drugs, they work their way up. It could lead down a bad road.
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    Offline Drolo

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #265 on: December 01, 2022, 01:11:12 AM »
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    • :cowboy:

    Now seriously. I guess theoretically it can be used sparingly. But I don't know anyone who does. All marijuana smokers I know are or were low-life people. So I wouldn't recommend smoking marijuana. But I'm not a priest or an expert in moral theology.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #266 on: December 01, 2022, 05:05:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on November 30, 2022, 10:20:23 PM
    Why not?  In and of itself, smoking tobacco is no sin.

    I was sneaking an illicit cigarette in my high school boys' restroom when I got to talking to another student (who did not smoke) about becoming a Catholic, he said "so why don't you?", and I called the priest that afternoon.  (I didn't mention the smoking.)

    I was received into the Church a few months later, baptized and confirmed.

    Who can say what I would have done if I hadn't been in that restroom, smoking that cigarette, and getting in that conversation?  (To be fair, it had been on my mind for some time.)

    I hope you’re not serious. Do you really think it would be becoming of the Blessed Virgin Mary to smoke a cigarette?
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #267 on: December 01, 2022, 09:10:09 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on December 01, 2022, 05:05:24 AM
    I hope you’re not serious. Do you really think it would be becoming of the Blessed Virgin Mary to smoke a cigarette?
    At Medjugorje (if it is to be believed), it was the youths smoking cigarettes, not Our Lady.

    It's a hard thing to imagine, but if smoking a single cigarette (as opposed to yielding to temptation to habit which could be dangerous to one's health, and often is) is no sin, then if they had existed in Palestine in the first century, then I can't exclude the possibility that she might have done it to help with digestion (and it does), similar to how one might have a cup of coffee.  Tobacco is an herb of the earth that can have medicinal uses, again, digestion, calming of nerves, and so on.  I am forced to eschew tobacco (at least until my Medicare kicks in three years from now) to remain in compliance with my health insurance (they impose a $200/month surcharge for smokers), but I can't condemn occasional usage of it as a sin.

    When I was working, the surcharge was $50/month, which I was willing to pay, but not $200.  I received my first Social Security payment last month, and even with that, my pension, and my 401(k), money is tight and I wouldn't even be able to afford the $50, let alone the $200.  
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #268 on: December 01, 2022, 09:14:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jimmy on November 30, 2022, 11:12:41 PM
    Haha, I like the conversion story. I had many a good deep conversation with my brother sneaking a cigarette on the roof at 1:00 am. He would never smoke, I was the degenerate, but he would hang out with me :).

    Obviously I'm not a good person to go to for advice, seeing as I am sort of new coming back to the Faith. However, I know many good people who smoke, and I have a good friend who does weed occasionally. He's not a Catholic, but he is still able to regulate and to be in control of his senses, and he's a good guy. I wouldn't recommend getting into drugs, because I also know many folks who ruined their life with the stuff. I work in an area where there are needles everywhere and hoboes all over the place. People usually don't start off with the big drugs, they work their way up. It could lead down a bad road.

    Marijuana being a "gateway drug" to "harder stuff" is probably more of a social thing, than anything intrinsic to marijuana itself.

    Not condoning its use, but no less a social philosopher than Snoop Dogg points out that if you get a bunch of gang-bangers in a room, and throw down a bottle of alcohol, someone's going to die, but if you throw down a bag of weed, they'll end up laughing, joking, telling stories, and rapping.  
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What's the purpose of smoking marijuana for Recreation?
    « Reply #269 on: December 01, 2022, 09:28:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: WorldsAway on November 30, 2022, 06:48:07 PM
    Since there has been no definitive Church teaching on those two drugs in particular, I would equate their sinfulness with that of drunkenness as "loss of reason", among other things, seems to be why some consider said drugs mortally sinful.

    As someone else pointed out, this has been dealt with on this thread.  While there's no strictly Magisterial teaching on the matter (IMO none is required, as the moral theologians all seem to be in agreement), the principle behind the intrinsic immorality of drugs is in fact the degree to which it compromises the higher faculties (reason and its direction of the will).

    Grave reason is required to completely deprive someone of the rational faculties, i.e. extreme pain, need to perform surgery, etc.  Lesser reason can justfiy a partial impairment of the faculties.  Total impairment without sufficient justification would be grave sin, while partial impairment without sufficient justificationn would be venial sin.  There would appear to be a sliding scale, where the more one is impaired, the greater the reason one would need to have to justify it.

    There are other extrinsic considerations as well ... illegality, compromising one's job (if use of drugs might cause the loss of a job), etc.

    Those who were arguing that, say, marijuana, is always sinful (and gravel sinful at that) all the time couldn't produce any additional principle to justify the assertion.
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