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Author Topic: We get the pope we deserve. 2005 Bulletin. Pray and God rewards our efforts.  (Read 471 times)

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Offline Twice dyed

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I found this old Parish Bulletin from 2005. It was printed just after the Pope was elected. One great takeaway from this short article is that Catholics should pray for the pope, and for priests too! And we get the Pope we deserve -  because of our sins and lack of faith, we justly suffer 'no so great' popes. God may allow a miracle, He is in control.
I  substituted Benedict XVI with the name of an imaginary Pope John XXIV, for easier reading.

Unofficial!!


Drastically adapted from a SSPX Bulletin & Mission Letter:

(Original subject was about the newly elected Pope Benedict XVI.)
May 2005
***************

John XXIV, what can we do?

I. A Realistic and Supernatural Attitude

  We must remember that the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ of which we and Pope John XXIV are members. We are in this crisis and life together for better or for worse. The first error we can have regarding the new Pope is to look upon him someone totally exterior to us upon whom we have no influence. Just as it would be wrong for a Pope to think his acts have no effect upon the Church, so it is wrong for us to forget that our acts have an influence
upon the Pope.

I. A man

    No, doubt, John XXIV, with all his qualities or defects, whichever you prefer to look at, is a man, and as a man, he could go either way. Is he at this moment moving toward God and thus slowly helping the Church, or moving away from Him and thus little by little destroying the Church?

  Some were perhaps awaiting a Pope where all would be clear: A progressive liberal calling for women priests and approving ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity; or a staunch traditionalist, taken from one of our bishops. God, was not of the party.


2. We get the leaders we deserve

  We get the pope we merit. 'I'  firmly believe that if all faithful Catholics had fasted but one day on bread and water, for the intention of a traditional pope, we would most certainly have gotten one. Miracles are possible. There is a divine economy however. God does not deal out miracles like a sugar Daddy but like a Father who is pleased to see the efforts of his children.

True, some no doubt did some serious penance for a fully traditional pope, is not enough when we are asking a favour for the whole Church. Yet prayers may have obtained deliverance from worse and in fact a certain blessing in the election of Cardinal N.

Good publicity for the Church

... The more in fact the media paints the Pope as ultra-conservative, the more God-seeking souls will turn to Catholicism....-

Bulletin, May - June

4. What the Pope is and is not

  What the Pope is not is perhaps more easy to answer. The Pope is not, at present, a Traditionalist in the full sense of the term, and it is unlikely according to supernatural economy that he ever will be. Do not expect great and stunning changes in favour of Tradition. As much as we say that is what he ought to do, it is not likely from his point of view, clouded by modernist theology and years of life within the post-conciliar Church, that he sees things that way. Perhaps, too, God knows that too quick a return to Tradition would cause the loss of too many souls.

    Will the Pope head toward Tradition? Which direction will he go? 'I' think the answer depends in part upon us.

  Certainly, Cardinal N.N., as a man seemed to be evolving back from liberalism to a more conservative Catholicism. He seemed to express a true concern for the present fate of the Church if we are to believe some witnesses.
At other times, he seemed to hesitate or cede to human respect and even speak and act like an outright liberal. How will he rule the Church? Once again, 'I'  think the answer depends in part upon us.

5. Temptation and influence
    We too soon forget that the Pope is a man. In this case an old man. He may be easily influenced. He will be tempted by the devil, by his own weakness and modernist formation. It is for all of these reasons that we must pray for him.


III. Our Attitude

  Rather than a wait and see attitude,..the only solution for us is to wait and pray. It is not a question for us to sit back and watch the Pope as idle spectators. We live in something similar to an interactive computer game where players can intervene and change the way a character acts. We too can obtain graces for the Pope daily. Each day, every moment of the day, the Pope will be confronted with choices as to what to say, who to name to which position, what to attend, what not to attend, which reforms to make. In each of these choices he will have to battle against the spirit of the world (perhaps in many of those who surround him), but also the devil, and his own human nature. We must indeed pray for the Pope.


1. Pros and cons
    John XXIV is not a born eagle to soar with the formation of a St. Pius X, but a bird with clipped wings with a fifties formation and post-Vatican II experience.
In some things he has some things in his favour. For one, he is an old man, and thus he knows he will die soon. Hopefully, he will make his decisions with more care. The downside of this is that he could be manipulated more easily by others.

  Secondly, John XXIV, knows the ins and outs of modernism due to his past. If he is sincerely going in the right direction this could be a valuable asset.

    Thirdly, thanks to his former position as head of the Congregation for the [….], he knows what is going on in the Church, probably much more than Francis I, due to the unending travels of this last. Hopefully, considering his age, he will opt not to be a traveling pope, but a governing pope. But still all of this depends upon us and our prayers.

2. Good Friday reflections

    We note that if he keeps to his reflections he made during the Stations of the Cross on Good Friday, there is some room for hope. We note in particular, the reflection on Jesus' third fall under the weight of the cross: "Ought we not call to mind how much Christ has to suffer in HIS own Church? How many times we celebrate only ourselves without so much as taking Him into consideration! How much filth there is in the Church, even among those who, by virtue of their priesthood, ought to belong entirely to Christ! How much vainglory, how much self-complacency! How little respect we show the Sacrament of Reconciliation, in which He awaits us to raise us up again every time we fall!"


  There were reflections in which he spoke of the Church as a "boat on the point of sinking, a boat taking in water on all sides. And also in Thy field we see more darnel than wheat. To see the vesture and visage of Thy Church so filthy throws us into confusion. Yet it is we ourselves who have soiled them! It is we who betray Thee time and time again, after all our lofty words and grand gestures.” (Pope Benedict XVI.)

  Two days later, near the Vatican, Cardinal N.N. met on the street a retired curial monsignor who asked him the reason for giving what seemed a discouraging reflection. "We must pray much, we must pray much, " answered the future Pope, "You weren't born yesterday; you understand what I'm talking about; you know what it means -- We priests! We priests!" he concluded in a tone of pleading, adding, "Remember the prayer to the Sacred Heart, in which we ask particular pardon for the sins of priests. I know it hurts to say the boat's taking in waterfront every side, but it's true, it's true. We priests…”    Struck by thc manner in which the Cardinal said, "we priests, we priests, " the monsignor recognized his inner suffering and asked him nothing further.


Conclusion

  In closing. urge you also to take the resolution to pray for your priests and also for this new Pope. It would not be out of place for most of us to add a sixth decade to our Rosary to pray especially for him. Some, with more time, could add even an entire five decade Rosary. We forget too easily our role and the effect of our actions (good and bad) upon the Mystical Body of Christ. We can not expect the Church to be restored if we do not do our part.

N.N. priest.
**************
Unofficial!!
So we get the pope we deserve...that is a good point.
And we must pray for the Pope and priests, a better point.


La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                 St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

Offline Predestination2

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New antipope. False prophet either. Leader of a false church. You do realise what you are doing is tantamount to praying the next “archbishop” of Canterbury will be good?
Vatican 2 was worse than both WW1 and WW2 combined.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 
Tried 6,000,000 pushups, only got to 271K


Online Gray2023

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New antipope. False prophet either. Leader of a false church. You do realise what you are doing is tantamount to praying the next “archbishop” of Canterbury will be good?
Then what should we be praying for?
1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

Offline Predestination2

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Then what should we be praying for?
That either we get a true pope from that CATHOLIC BISHOPS or at least that we do not betray Christ when the antichrist comes 
Vatican 2 was worse than both WW1 and WW2 combined.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 
Tried 6,000,000 pushups, only got to 271K

Offline SimpleMan

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Depending on who he is, he might have a "sixties" or "seventies" formation, rather than a "fifties" one.

Not good.


Offline Twice dyed

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New antipope. False prophet either. Leader of a false church. You do realise what you are doing is tantamount to praying the next “archbishop” of Canterbury will be good?
I believe Our Lord when He said that the gates of hell shall not prevail against THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. (Matt XVI ,16 - 18).
 I also believe His Most Holy Mother when she oftentimes request prayers for the POPE.

We just had the feast of St. Athanasius, where Pope Liberius was a weak pope. Simply because a pope is weak,  or spreading heresies (only MATERIAL by the way),  the Church recognizes these weak leaders as still occuping the Chair of Peter. 

We both see the Church in Disaster Mode. We also both hope that the Church will some day soon, teach correctly.  When precisely do you claim, as a theologian, that Mother Church is no more...?  And if you are not a Theologian, study your basic Catechism.
A free Lady Gaga concert is today's religion for the wanton mass(es)...
Pray  +


La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                 St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

Online Ladislaus

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Simply because a pope is weak,  or spreading heresies (only MATERIAL by the way),  the Church recognizes these weak leaders as still occuping the Chair of Peter.

:facepalm:  Bergogio, weak?  Sadly we have quite a few Old Catholic heretics masquerading as Traditional Catholics, those who do not believe that legitimate papal authority cannot wreck the Church, cannot teach heresy, cannot promulgate a Rite of Mass that displeases God and harms souls.  This is not about a "weak" pope or a "bad data".

You types are the FIRST ONES that need to be condemned by the Holy Pope when God restores the Church.

Online Ladislaus

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I believe Our Lord when He said that the gates of hell shall not prevail against THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. (Matt XVI ,16 - 18).

Riiiight.  So as long as we have some clown wearing a white cassock prancing around that means the gates of Hell haven't prevailed, right?

So said clown can lead souls to Hell, teach heresy, promote a sacrilegeous Mass, and that's not Hell prevailing, as long as he keeps his cassock dry-cleaned.

You people are ridiculous ... no, actually, retarded.


Offline Predestination2

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I believe Our Lord when He said that the gates of hell shall not prevail against THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. (Matt XVI ,16 - 18).
 I also believe His Most Holy Mother when she oftentimes request prayers for the POPE.

We just had the feast of St. Athanasius, where Pope Liberius was a weak pope. Simply because a pope is weak,  or spreading heresies (only MATERIAL by the way),  the Church recognizes these weak leaders as still occuping the Chair of Peter.

We both see the Church in Disaster Mode. We also both hope that the Church will some day soon, teach correctly.  When precisely do you claim, as a theologian, that Mother Church is no more...?  And if you are not a Theologian, study your basic Catechism.
A free Lady Gaga concert is today's religion for the wanton mass(es)...
Pray  +
Yeah… THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, the novus ordo anti church not the same thing. It is a completely different church. The Catholic Church is smaller and currently in sedevacante - that it not the gates of hell. In fact the gates of hell are the mouths of heretics. So if roncalli-bergoglio were the pope the gates of hell would have prevailed. Also the pope is the gate of the church, now if the gates of hell were the gates of the church that would make the church….. hell
Vatican 2 was worse than both WW1 and WW2 combined.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 
Tried 6,000,000 pushups, only got to 271K

Offline Twice dyed

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Yeah… THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, the novus ordo anti church not the same thing. It is a completely different church. The Catholic Church is smaller and currently in sedevacante - ...
Let's present this idea a bit differently. Credo:...And in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Are we still on the same page?  Some equate the pope with the Chair of Peter, which is erroneous...we know that. The comparison is like the captain of a ship and the ship itself. The temporal person at the helm, the pope,  can be safe and prudent, or bad and reckless; but he is not the ship, the barque of Peter.
The Church was divinely founded, and guaranteed to withstand till the very end of the world. That's my position. As Cardinal Ratzinger said: the boat is taking in water from all sides...We priests!
The magnificent vessel is listing, but it will one day become buoyant. Schismatics are jumping in uncharted waters, treading, and hopeless. Where will the true pope be elected, if not in the Church? A real pope will consecrate Russia, but it will be late...
Trust in Mary too!, Star of the Sea.

La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                 St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

Offline Predestination2

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Let's present this idea a bit differently. Credo:...And in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Are we still on the same page?  Some equate the pope with the Chair of Peter, which is erroneous...we know that. The comparison is like the captain of a ship and the ship itself. The temporal person at the helm, the pope,  can be safe and prudent, or bad and reckless; but he is not the ship, the barque of Peter.
The Church was divinely founded, and guaranteed to withstand till the very end of the world. That's my position. As Cardinal Ratzinger said: the boat is taking in water from all sides...We priests!
The magnificent vessel is listing, but it will one day become buoyant. Schismatics are jumping in uncharted waters, treading, and hopeless. Where will the true pope be elected, if not in the Church? A real pope will consecrate Russia, but it will be late...
Trust in Mary too!, Star of the Sea.
My head hurt reading this fallacious nothing burger. The fact is the pope cannot be a public notorious heretic, but even if you dispute this THE POPE CANNOT INFALLIBLY TEACH HERESY. The church is INDEFECTIBLE. The pope is infallible in not only his extraordinary magisterium but also ORDINARY MAGISTERIUM. We can use epikeia to show the necessity of cardinals does not bind in a state of prolonged sedevacante. The pope cannot be morally evil but he cannot CANNOT teach heresy to the faithful. The pope also can’t promulgate FALSE SACRAMENTS or celebrate a FALSE MASS. You cannot object to theological conclusions based on dogmatic church teaching with private revelation…… repent 
Vatican 2 was worse than both WW1 and WW2 combined.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 
Tried 6,000,000 pushups, only got to 271K


Offline Twice dyed

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Pirates have wormed their way onto the Catholic Ship , taken over the tiller and the captain's chair. They have power and an agenda. The serious Catholics found a bit of protection from the pirates by sitting in the lifeboats   hanging beside the main ship, hoping God will save the daze.
La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                 St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

Online Ladislaus

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My head hurt reading this fallacious nothing burger. The fact is the pope cannot be a public notorious heretic, but even if you dispute this THE POPE CANNOT INFALLIBLY TEACH HERESY. The church is INDEFECTIBLE. The pope is infallible in not only his extraordinary magisterium but also ORDINARY MAGISTERIUM. We can use epikeia to show the necessity of cardinals does not bind in a state of prolonged sedevacante. The pope cannot be morally evil but he cannot CANNOT teach heresy to the faithful. The pope also can’t promulgate FALSE SACRAMENTS or celebrate a FALSE MASS. You cannot object to theological conclusions based on dogmatic church teaching with private revelation…… repent

Yeah, I think they come up with various platitudes that sound good when taken out of context ... "faith is greater than obedience", "bad dad", "not everything a pope teaches is infallible, etc."

Because they sound good, they cling to these.

But they don't think through that what they're saying is actually heretical, and the longer they cling to these notions, the closer they are to losing the faith.

Now, SVs can overreact by exaggerating the scope of infallibility ... to combat R&R, but the simple fact is that if you hold that legitimate exercise of papal authority can substantially alter the Church to where it's a new religion, where it harms souls, where the teaching corrupts the faith, and where the public worship of the Church displeases God and harms souls (and likely isn't even valid) ... to where Catholics are permitted to and even in conscience required to separate from submission to and communion with the Catholic hierarchy, nothing short of a defection of the Church, one that is not salvaged by a clown walking around Rome in a white cassock and having his picture up in SSPX vestibultes.  That would justify and validate all the revolts from the Church over the centuries, from the Eastern Orthodox to the Old Catholcs.  And at that point cares if there's some clown in a white cassock?  What good is it?  With that kind of "papacy", where it can wreck your faith and your soul ... we'd say to Our Lord, "thanks but no thanks ... we'd rather not have had a papacy at all and take our chances".  But that would be blasphemous, and it's precisely the R&R mentality.  Ah, so let's limit infallibility to the point of absurdity.  OK, then how do you know that Pius IX was right to condemn Religious Liberty?  Maybe he was wrong, and Vatican II represents a needed correction?  It's nonsensical, self-contradictory, and simply not Catholic.

Now, no, a Pope isn't infallible every time he passes wind ... but he can't corrupt the faith so badly that we can't in good conscience stay in union with him due to his teaching and the public worship he promulgated.

Online Ladislaus

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Pirates have wormed their way onto the Catholic Ship , taken over the tiller and the captain's chair. They have power and an agenda. The serious Catholics found a bit of protection from the pirates by sitting in the lifeboats  hanging beside the main ship, hoping God will save the daze.

Indeed, but let's not throw the Church under the bus to save Jorge or his predecessors.