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Author Topic: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?  (Read 1476 times)

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Offline Disputaciones

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Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
« on: December 26, 2020, 12:51:38 PM »
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  • With Lent just around the corner, I wanted to get to the bottom of this issue. 

    According to the traditio.com fasting guidelines here, it says you can have milk at any time during fast days, but I don't know where they get that from.

    All it says is "as observed since 1952" but they don't give any source.


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #1 on: December 26, 2020, 01:48:07 PM »
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  • Milk has not been prohibited in my lifetime. I don't believe it has been prohibited in the history of the Church. We are not vegans. We are Catholics.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline Matto

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #2 on: December 26, 2020, 01:55:40 PM »
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  • Milk has not been prohibited in my lifetime. I don't believe it has been prohibited in the history of the Church. We are not vegans. We are Catholics.
    Milk and cheese and eggs used to be prohibited on some fast days, including Lent. I think it still is in some of the Eastern Rites and it is among some of the Eastern Orthodox. Fasting rules used to be much stricter but the Catholic Church became lenient a little at a time, not just after Vatican II. 
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #3 on: December 26, 2020, 02:01:23 PM »
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  • With Lent just around the corner...

    All it says is "as observed since 1952" but they don't give any source.
    Lent is just around the corner?

    As to your question, I would ask you "Did Vatican II start AFTER 1952?"  

    Drink milk; or don't.  Your call.  Chocolate milk is another matter altogether.  ;)
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Disputaciones

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #4 on: December 26, 2020, 02:29:44 PM »
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  • Lent is just around the corner?

    As to your question, I would ask you "Did Vatican II start AFTER 1952?"  

    Drink milk; or don't.  Your call.  Chocolate milk is another matter altogether.  ;)
    It's a month and a half away, that's pretty close. 


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #5 on: December 26, 2020, 02:40:34 PM »
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  • It's a month and a half away, that's pretty close.

    So, is that enough time to do some actual research?  Or have we become THAT lazy?

    There are numerous, easily-located resources which will provide the history and the answer.

    got milk?
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #6 on: December 26, 2020, 02:54:34 PM »
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  • Milk has not been prohibited in my lifetime. I don't believe it has been prohibited in the history of the Church. We are not vegans. We are Catholics.
    At one point, both Eastern and Western Christianity forbade dairy during Lent, so it's a valid question. Now it's just the East.
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #7 on: December 26, 2020, 03:05:45 PM »
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  • At one point, both Eastern and Western Christianity forbade dairy during Lent, so it's a valid question. Now it's just the East.

    It has been quite some time since it was not an issue in the West. The Liturgical Year, among other readily available sources, provides the entire history.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #8 on: December 26, 2020, 04:54:19 PM »
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  • Milk and cheese and eggs used to be prohibited on some fast days, including Lent. 
    Can you or Minnesota provide more information, please? I don’t worry my self about what eastern rites or the Orthodox prescribe.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Matto

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #9 on: December 26, 2020, 05:04:19 PM »
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  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting_and_abstinence_in_the_Catholic_Church

    It's wikipedia, I know, not the best source, but it goes into the history a bit and I don't see why they would lie about this topic.

    Also the Catholic encyclopedia:

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05789c.htm

    and

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm
    R.I.P.
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    Offline Disputaciones

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #10 on: December 26, 2020, 05:45:07 PM »
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  • So, is that enough time to do some actual research?  Or have we become THAT lazy?

    There are numerous, easily-located resources which will provide the history and the answer.

    got milk?
    You're quite the prick aren't you? If I knew where to find the answer I wouldn't be asking here would I? 


    Offline tdrev123

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #11 on: December 26, 2020, 05:53:15 PM »
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  • From Thomas Aquinas

    Offline tdrev123

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #12 on: December 26, 2020, 05:53:50 PM »
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  • From Thomas Aquinas
    Ash Wednesday and Good Friday were “black fasts.” This means no food at all.
    Other days of Lent: no food until 3pm, the hour of Our Lord’s death. Water was allowed, and as was the case for the time due to sanitary concerns, watered-down beer and wine. After the advent of tea and coffee, these beverages were permitted.
    No animal meats or fats.
    No eggs.
    No dairy products (lacticinia) – that is, eggs, milk, cheese, cream, butter, etc.
    Sundays were days of less liturgical discipline, but the fasting rules above remained.

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #13 on: December 26, 2020, 06:03:21 PM »
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  • https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05789c.htm


    Ecclesiastical approbation. Nihil Obstat. May 1, 1909. Remy Lafort, Censor. Imprimatur. +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.



    Quote
    In some places eggs, milk, butter, cheese and fish are prohibited, while bread, cake, fruit, herbs and vegetables are allowed. In other places, milk, eggs, cheese, butter and fish are permitted, owing either to custom or to Indult. This is the case in the United States. However, in order to form judgments perfectly safe concerning this point, the Lenten regulations of each diocese should be carefully read. Finally, a little tea, coffee, chocolate or such like beverage together with a morsel of bread or a cracker is now allowed in the morning. Strictly speaking, whatever may be classified under the head of liquids may be taken as drink or medicine at any time of the day or night on fasting days. Hence, water, lemonade, soda, water, ginger ale, wine, beer and similar drinks may be taken on fasting days outside meal time even though such beverages may, to some extent, prove nutritious. Coffee, tea, diluted chocolate, electuaries made of sugar, juniper berries, and citron may be taken on fasting days, outside meal time, as medicine by those who find them conducive to health. Honey, milk, soup, broth, oil or anything else having the nature of food, is not allowed under either of the two categories already specified.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Was milk allowed during Lent before Vatican 2?
    « Reply #14 on: December 26, 2020, 06:07:05 PM »
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  • https://www.cmri.org/adsum/adsum-2016-12.pdf




    Quote
    On a fast day, such as a weekday in Lent or an Ember day, those who are obliged to fast may drink between meals, as often as they wish, liquids which are not very nourishing. Such liquids would be tea, coffee, wine, beer, and (according to the generous interpretation of most of the bishops of the United States in their regulations concerning fast and abstinence) milk, and undiluted fruit juices. But on a fast day one who is obliged to fast may not take between meals such liquids as soup, egg-nog, cream, etc., which are practically as nourishing as solid food.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.