Author Topic: Vocations to Marriage (Read 3545 times)

Vladimir · « **on:** November 22, 2011, 09:42:10 AM »

This is a question for a priest, but I'm curious about some of your opinions.

To test a vocation to religion, one enters a seminary or monastery. What is the equivalent testing ground for marriage? It seems more difficult to discern a vocation to this state since all men have a strong natural urge to become a father and it seems impossible to enter into any marriage without being motivated by a degree of self-interest.

s2srea · « **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2011, 09:54:16 AM »

I wonder if there's really equivalent, especially in our day and age. Add to that the fact, as you say, and urge for men to father (though I wonder if its truly all men?) to become a priest, I believe, is a higher calling than marriage? Don't priests enjoy a higher form or the beatific vision? Its a more difficult life, I believe.

I would personally counsel my own son, or daughter, that if they even consider that the religious state may be a possibility for them, that they should attend a religious house or seminary to be able to truly discern their vocation; doing so, I believe, would take them from the distractions of the world and allow them to hear what God wants for them.

Vladimir · « **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2011, 10:04:39 AM »

The thing about entering a seminary is that if you are dismissed, you still must discern between a vocation to celibacy or married life. Add to this the concept that whatever you are tempted in the most you must strive to overcome, and a young man seriously inclined to marriage may have trouble discerning whether the urge is a vocation or simply a predominant passion.

On a natural level, it seems that all are inclined to satisfy the flesh, but as Catholics we all grasp, perhaps on but a vague level for most of us, that the religious/priestly life is superior to the married. Logically, all Catholic should be more inclined to the religious/priestly life than the married...so it seems.

So for example, a young traditional Catholic man is discerning his vocation. The priesthood is attractive to him because he knows it will be easier to secure his salvation in the religious/priestly state, but so is the devout traditional Catholic girl in the next pew. How does he know?

Vladimir · « **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2011, 10:22:48 AM »

Apologies for the double post.

Another indicator of a vocation may be the presence of impediments. But even this is highly subjective when it comes to marriage. For example, a single child taking care of his parents and responsible for ensuring the continuation of his family line cannot seriously discern a vocation to the priesthood. But in marriage, the only concrete impediment seems to be close relation. One can argue that if a young man doesn't have a good job to theoretically support a family then he shouldn't think about marriage, but it seems rather fuzzy what is a good job and what is not.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #4 on:** November 22, 2011, 10:46:49 AM »

A vocation is a "calling" - I've heard a sermon where it was said marriage is not technically a vocation.

s2srea · « **Reply #5 on:** November 22, 2011, 12:37:20 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

A vocation is a "calling" - I've heard a sermon where it was said marriage is not technically a vocation.

Really? I could have sworn to have heard that vocations include both married life and the religious state... if I come across anything, I'll post it.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2011, 12:42:07 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: Telesphorus
A vocation is a "calling" - I've heard a sermon where it was said marriage is not technically a vocation.

Really? I could have sworn to have heard that vocations include both married life and the religious state... if I come across anything, I'll post it.

I guess the distinction can be seen in that people are not really called to be married, it's part of their nature, whereas embracing the religious life is a special calling from God. Perhaps that it explains it?

MaterDominici · « **Reply #7 on:** November 22, 2011, 02:23:50 PM »

I've only skimmed this thread, but you might find something helpful in the second post here: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Marriage-and-Parenthood

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2011, 03:45:57 PM »

Quote from: Vladimir

The priesthood is attractive to him because he knows it will be easier to secure his salvation in the religious/priestly state

One would certainly think that, but actually that does not appear to be the case. Numerous Saints over the years have said that few priests make it to Heaven because God judges them more harshly. If you are a priest, then you have an entire flock to care for, and God will judge you on how well you "fed" your flock.

In other words, laypeople look to priests as an example. If they see their priest doing something holy, then they will feel more willing to do something holy. At the same time, if they see their priest doing something sinful, they will be more likely to commit sin themselves. This is one reason why the Church is in a crisis. The priests and Bishops (and sadly, even the man who sits in the Chair of Peter) are doing very sinful things and as a result, they endanger the souls that follow/look up to them. This is one big problem with the Novus Ordo church. The laypeople put so much trust in their parish priests and Bishops (and Benedict) that they do as they say no matter what, and we all know the result of that. The devil knows that if he can get a priest to fall, he can get an entire "flock" of laymen to fall with him.

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2011, 11:39:18 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

I've only skimmed this thread, but you might find something helpful in the second post here: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Marriage-and-Parenthood

Link edited without the "." so people can click on it now.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2011, 02:02:40 AM »

Quote from: PartyIsOver221

Quote from: MaterDominici
I've only skimmed this thread, but you might find something helpful in the second post here: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Marriage-and-Parenthood

Link edited without the "." so people can click on it now.

Thank you! I fixed the first one now too.

Man of the West · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2011, 06:31:29 AM »

In response to the question in the OP, I think you may "know," with a faithful and prudential certainty, that you are called to a vocation of marriage, when you meet a girl/boy whom you desire to love for God's own sake, unto their salvation and yours; and because you discern a certain aspect of Godliness in them which you cannot help but cherish. For such a love is true charity, and charity cannot be wrong. The key is to let the pure love of God serve as the undercurrent and foundation of all your earthy loves. Any Catholic who finds himself "falling in love" with a girl, in the faith and for the sake of the faith, ought to feel confident that God has given His blessing to the marriage and intends it to take place. At that point, the only doubt that remains to him is the rather pedantic and hairspliting epistemological worry over "how do I know that this is real charity and not some passion of mine disguising itself as charity?" But he who asks that question is only dithering, hiding himself, holding something back; usually out of fear, or out of an ingrained habit of irony left over from the long years of waiting and disappointment. The matter is fairly easy to settle if you are honest with yourself, especially with the help of a kindly parent or priest. (One of the reasons that married life has suffered so horribly in recent years is that so many parents and priests are utterly without prudence themselves; and lacking this spiritual sight, they are unable to guide others in the right ways. Therefore, young people are left to find their own way to the mark; and if they manage to reach it at all -- an increasing rarity -- they do so late, and only after many mistakes.)

Remember, a vocation to marriage is not simply a call to marriage in general, but marriage to a particular spouse whom God has appointed for you. It would be absolutely contradictory to the goodness of God to suppose that He has destined you for marriage, but left you with no means of determining whom to marry or even whether to marry at all. When you meet her, you will know. Perhaps not right away, but you will know. Likewise if you have a vocation to the religious life. It is important to wait upon the Lord and let Him take charge of the whole proceedings; for then you can be sure not only that you ended up in the right vocation, but thay you ended up with the right spouse.

Unfortunately, the majority of married people do not wait upon the Lord. They choose a spouse to their own liking, based on some rather subjective and flimsy criteria, and go straight for it without having any idea what they're getting themselves into. The results of this strategy are on display in the form of ruined families, divorces, infidelities, illegitimacy, whole generations of dysfunctional children, and worldwide demographic collapse. You do not want to be affiliated with any of that. You want a happy and peaceful home, a strong and virtuous family, and descendents like the stars in the sky, all reigning as kings in heaven, as devoted servants of the Most High. Do you really think that God does not want to give you these good things? Of course He does! If you follow faithfully His commandments you will one day find your vocation all laid out for you like a table in the midst of your enemies. Then you will know that you are called to marriage; but more so to faithfulness and thanksgiving, to marvel eternally at the good things the Lord has done.

Vladimir · « **Reply #12 on:** November 23, 2011, 05:59:00 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Quote from: Vladimir
The priesthood is attractive to him because he knows it will be easier to secure his salvation in the religious/priestly state

One would certainly think that, but actually that does not appear to be the case. Numerous Saints over the years have said that few priests make it to Heaven because God judges them more harshly. If you are a priest, then you have an entire flock to care for, and God will judge you on how well you "fed" your flock.

In other words, laypeople look to priests as an example. If they see their priest doing something holy, then they will feel more willing to do something holy. At the same time, if they see their priest doing something sinful, they will be more likely to commit sin themselves. This is one reason why the Church is in a crisis. The priests and Bishops (and sadly, even the man who sits in the Chair of Peter) are doing very sinful things and as a result, they endanger the souls that follow/look up to them. This is one big problem with the Novus Ordo church. The laypeople put so much trust in their parish priests and Bishops (and Benedict) that they do as they say no matter what, and we all know the result of that. The devil knows that if he can get a priest to fall, he can get an entire "flock" of laymen to fall with him.

If few priests are saved, it is few in comparison to the number of men who become priests, not in comparison to the faithful, for if priests and religious who retire from the world and reject it's pleasures are scarcely saved, what does that say about the rest of us who live in the midst of the world and are exposed to more occasions of sin?

Thank you all for the input.

Man of the West,

Although what you write it true, it still leaves me wondering if even a supernatural love like you describe would be a sign of a "predestined affinity" to marry that person. Because even then it may be a sign that you are called to give up your own interest and sacrifice your life by entering into religion to secure the salvation of your loved ones.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 24, 2011, 02:01:25 PM »

If a man of marriageable age struggles with chastity, should he start looking for a wife? Or should he first conquer that demon of impurity, THEN start looking for a wife/discerning vocation?

I am reminded of St. Paul in the bible "better to marry than to burn with lust."

Yet I also have read that it is more common for men to struggle with chastity and stay in a state of grace when they haven't yet decided on a vocation/state of life.

Vladimir · « **Reply #14 on:** November 24, 2011, 08:47:58 PM »

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

If a man of marriageable age struggles with chastity, should he start looking for a wife? Or should he first conquer that demon of impurity, THEN start looking for a wife/discerning vocation?

I am reminded of St. Paul in the bible "better to marry than to burn with lust."

Yet I also have read that it is more common for men to struggle with chastity and stay in a state of grace when they haven't yet decided on a vocation/state of life.

It's all about purity of intention. I obviously have no more, and most likely less, experience in these matters than you. However, to seek marriage simply to satiate the inconstant desires of the flesh seems extremely foolish. St. Robert writes that those who marry only to gratify the flesh commit mortal sin, since they deceive the world by fornicating behind the mask of holy matrimony. Further, struggling with chastity may be a sign that God wishes you to overcome lust by entering religion, or to inspire you to quit the world, which produces innumerably occasions of sin in this regard.

Obviously, as Seneca writes, the procreative desires of men work towards their own satisfaction. However, if you think about it, most people are not driven 24/7 to procreate, so marrying for this reason alone seems hardly a "good deal" for having to "put up with" the rest of what comes with married life, which by the way, may not even be your vocation if this is your primary motive for marriage, thus excluding you from the manifold graces that Providence had stored for you in another state of life!

If you struggle with chastity, it is a sign that you should at least for a period of time, quit the world and enter religion to see if that is what God is calling you to do. St. Alphonsus writes that priests and religious are exposed to less occasions of sin in this regard and that marriage actually increases the occasions to commit sins of the flesh.