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Author Topic: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized  (Read 17464 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
« Reply #90 on: November 14, 2023, 04:09:54 AM »
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  • Most trans people were manipulated by others. Even if their mutilation is 'permanent' it will easily be restored on the day of judgement. If they truly repent and try to go back to normal to the best of their ability then I don't see the issue.
    Mark I am not sure what the issue is? See the bold above.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #91 on: November 14, 2023, 06:54:24 AM »
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  • I'm not sure I completely understand this debate, as I haven't read every post, but formal repentance is necessary even if materially the damage can't be undone.  If they have the intention to repent, they can be baptized, go to Confession, etc.

    It's similar to any other sin that requires restitution of some kind.  Let's say I steal $10,000 and spent it.  I repent and intend to pay it back, even though I can't right now and may never be able to.  I can be forgiven as long as I intend to do my best to make restitution.  Then you have to try.

    As for public vs. private Baptism, Baptism is inherently public, as it determines membership in the Church, and requires witnesses precisely for that reason.  Yet, it could be quasi-private in the sense that the ceremony need not be performed in front of the broader public.  This may be done to avoid scandal.


    Online Mark 79

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #92 on: November 14, 2023, 10:49:56 AM »
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  • Mark I am not sure what the issue is? See the bold above.
    Blather and digression.   What sinner is not "manipulated"? The "manipulation" is irrelevant to the stated criticism. So, why change the subject to an irrelevant matter?

    As for your bold print, the criticism focused narrowly on those who do NOT "try to go back to normal" presenting manifestly with an appearance that mocks and opposes Catholic morality and dogma.

    Online Mark 79

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #93 on: November 14, 2023, 11:01:10 AM »
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  • I'm not sure I completely understand this debate, as I haven't read every post, but formal repentance is necessary even if materially the damage can't be undone.  If they have the intention to repent, they can be baptized, go to Confession, etc.

    It's similar to any other sin that requires restitution of some kind.  Let's say I steal $10,000 and spent it.  I repent and intend to pay it back, even though I can't right now and may never be able to.  I can be forgiven as long as I intend to do my best to make restitution.  Then you have to try.

    As for public vs. private Baptism, Baptism is inherently public, as it determines membership in the Church, and requires witnesses precisely for that reason.  Yet, it could be quasi-private in the sense that the ceremony need not be performed in front of the broader public.  This may be done to avoid scandal. [emphasis added]
    You have accurately distilled the gravamen.

    The narrow focus of criticism was specifically aimed at those who present with an appearance that suggests no repentance, no "restitution," mocking and opposing Catholic morals and dogma.

    I even provided example photos for the willfully dyslexic and snarky who raised the straw men of "unforgivable sin," "gynecomastia," "hirsuitism," and a load of other irrelevant crap. Since the femboy photo is now missing, I assume it was too risque to remain here, but the photos should have made the point to those who willfully evaded the point, willfully denying that pattern recognition delineates congenital hermaphroditism and virilization/feminization syndromes from willful sɛҳuąƖ self-mutilation, delineates those innocent and repentant from those contumacious and rebellious.

    Online Geremia

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #94 on: November 14, 2023, 05:55:55 PM »
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  • Beards, breasts (store-bought or otherwise), "Adam's apple," male v. female hairline, male v. female hairstyles, and manner of dress are readily apparent.
    None of those things are necessary for baptism.

    Regarding 1917 Canon 748 (which has no equivalent in the 1983 Code), which deals with baptism in the case of deformed or abnormal fetal humans, canonist Charles Augustine, O.S.B., D.D., writes in A Commentary on the New Code of Canon Law, on Can. 748:
    Quote
    There is no difficulty as to hermaphrodites, because sex does not affect the validity of Baptism.

    {Even hermaphrodites with predominate male aspect can be validly (albeit illicitly) ordained.}
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    Online Mark 79

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #95 on: November 14, 2023, 06:02:43 PM »
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  • None of those things are necessary for baptism.

    Regarding 1917 Canon 748 (which has no equivalent in the 1983 Code), which deals with baptism in the case of deformed or abnormal fetal humans, canonist Charles Augustine, O.S.B., D.D., writes in A Commentary on the New Code of Canon Law, on Can. 748:
    {Even hermaphrodites with predominate male aspect can be validly (albeit illicitly) ordained.}

    After ignoring several clear statements of the focused criticism, you continue to engage in straw man arguments.

    Mentioning pattern recognition of features manifesting opposition to Catholic morals and dogma is not a claim that any certain body part is mandated in Canon Law.

    You also continue to conflate unfortunate congenital anomalies with willful sɛҳuąƖ self-mutilation.

    It is becoming more clear that you intend to be a deceiver and cloud the issue. What is your major malfunction, Geremia?

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #96 on: November 15, 2023, 12:54:57 PM »
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  • Not many alpha males left within Vatican II church. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Online Mark 79

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #97 on: July 27, 2024, 08:16:18 PM »
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  • After ignoring several clear statements of the focused criticism, you continue to engage in straw man arguments.

    Mentioning pattern recognition of features manifesting opposition to Catholic morals and dogma is not a claim that any certain body part is mandated in Canon Law.

    You also continue to conflate unfortunate congenital anomalies with willful sɛҳuąƖ self-mutilation.

    It is becoming more clear that you intend to be a deceiver and cloud the issue. What is your major malfunction, Geremia?

    In this thread Geremia never recanted his conflation of an unfortunate unwilled birth defect (congenital hermaphroditism) with willful sɛҳuąƖ mutilation (surgical transɛҳuąƖism).

    If someone is caught in an accidental mistake (e.g., "Hey, your fly is open."), no ill will can be imputed… however, once the mistake is pointed and you refuse to fix the mistake, it is reasonable to consider that the "mistake" is actually intentional. 

    So, over 8 months since you were called on your error, you still haven't acknowledged or recanted the "mistake."

    Geremia, you are long overdue "zipping up"!


    Online Mark 79

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #98 on: July 29, 2024, 10:04:15 PM »
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  • In this thread Geremia never recanted his conflation of an unfortunate unwilled birth defect (congenital hermaphroditism) with willful sɛҳuąƖ mutilation (surgical transɛҳuąƖism).

    If someone is caught in an accidental mistake (e.g., "Hey, your fly is open."), no ill will can be imputed… however, once the mistake is pointed and you refuse to fix the mistake, it is reasonable to consider that the "mistake" is actually intentional. 

    So, over 8 months since you were called on your error, you still haven't acknowledged or recanted the "mistake."

    Geremia, you are long overdue "zipping up"!

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #99 on: August 01, 2024, 11:56:45 AM »
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  • So? Isn't baptism for sinners?
    Baptism is for sinners who are in a state of grace.

    You should read Genesis- God made male and God made female.  

    Non Catholics, Catholics who are in a state of sin shouldn’t be God parents.  


    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #100 on: August 01, 2024, 12:03:04 PM »
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  • The second is sodomoticial sin: man with man, or woman with woman, against nature. How the cry of this most abominable sin came to God from the earth, and how God poured down fire and brimstone to destroy the wicked Sodomites, it appereath plain in scripture. This terrible example putteth in remembrance that perpetually to burn in hell with fire and brimstone is a punishment due for them that commit sin against nature.





    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #101 on: August 01, 2024, 12:05:43 PM »
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  • The Vatican are liars and deceivers.  They love the Olympic ceremony.  They are the anti Christ.

    Key member of pope's sex abuse commission quits

    Transgender believers can be baptised in the Catholic Church, if it would not cause scandal or “confusion”, the Vatican said Wednesday, clarifying a sensitive area of doctrine. 
    Wolves in sheep clothing.  They are liars and deceivers. Read your bibles, Catholics. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #102 on: August 01, 2024, 12:09:00 PM »
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  • With this statement from the Vatican , they excommunicated themselves from God.  They aren’t Catholic.  They think they are gods and goddesses of paganism.  It is why they are silent against persecution of Christians and blasphemy against Jesus Christ. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Online Geremia

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #103 on: August 01, 2024, 01:13:59 PM »
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  • Baptism is for sinners who are in a state of grace.
    And you can't have sanctifying grace unless you're baptized.
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    Offline Marcellinus

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    Re: Vatican: TransɛҳuąƖs can be Baptized
    « Reply #104 on: August 01, 2024, 04:33:43 PM »
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  • Baptism is for sinners who are in a state of grace.
    With all due respect, that doesn't even make sense.  You can't be in a state of grace without having been baptized.  

    I sometimes read your posts and simply want to ask you, "Are you ok?"