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Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Cera on July 29, 2020, 01:09:16 PM

Title: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: Cera on July 29, 2020, 01:09:16 PM
Once “religious content” originating from outside the earth “has been verified” we will have to conduct “a re-reading [of the Gospel] inclusive of the new data…”
according to
– Vatican Astronomer, Theologian and Full Professor of Fundamental Theology at the Pontificia Università della Santa Croce in Rome [Connected With Opus Dei], Father Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti

Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti wrote about Christianity’s relation to the concept of alien extra-terrestrial life from outer space, “Extraterrestrial life,” Interdisciplinary Encyclopedia of Religion and Science, 2008 AD.

“In the more narrowly scientific realm, the 19th century’s enthusiasm for a possible “close encounter” with other inhabitants of the solar system has been replaced by the methodical research for elementary life forms or pre-biotic material in environments similar to our solar system, not to mention the initiation of long-term programs in radio-astronomic exploration of more remote environments…”

“The theme of cosmic life is brought to today’s culture by science, not philosophy. It reaches the public mostly through the mass media, literature of different genres, and certain other artistic expressions. It suffices to think of the science-fiction novels of H.G. Wells, author of War of the Worlds (1898), which continue to inspire, even after a century, films like Star Wars (from 1977 onward) by George Lucas…”

“Thomas Paine (1737-1809), The Age of Reason (1793), a text that for the first time directly proposed a radical incompatibility between the Christian religion and the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life. According to Paine, the discovery of non-terrestrial life would inevitably lead to a repudiation of religion:

‘Are we to suppose that every world in the boundless creation had an Eve, an apple, a serpent and a redeemer? In this case, the person who is irreverently called the Son of God, and sometimes God himself, would have nothing else to do than to travel from world to world, in an endless succession of death, with scarcely a momentary interval of life’ (The Age of Reason, New York 1961, p. 283)…”

Well, at least Thomas Paine admits that Jesus is “called…God himself.” One option is that perhaps extra-terrestrial aliens did not experience a fall into sin and are thus, sinless. This is something about which Catholic officials have speculated. Of course, if they are sinless then they could have been our saviors and Jesus need not have died. In fact, this is how may view the extra-terrestrial aliens and why the place their hopes, their “faith” in them.

Moreover, keep in mind that YHVH has different means of judging different beings. For example, Jesus came to seek and save those who were lost: sinners. However, the fallen non-human beings (angels, cherubim, etc.) have no chance at salvation.

“The point of departure for most theological reflections basically remains [German theologian Joseph] Pohle’s thesis: the Creator’s greatness and glory are compatible with the gift of life and of intelligent life in the cosmos, also in numerous environments other than the Earth, although we do not know what God’s plans are for these creatures.

“I believe that the theme of possible intelligent life of extraterrestrial origin, i.e., intelligent life outside the experience of unity of the human family as presented by the entire biblical message, represents one of the major speculative efforts facing Christian theology…

what the Judeo-Christian tradition professes about the existence of angels. This tradition shows that the meaning of creation is not completely based on the relationship between man and God, “but remains open to other creatures,” which, although likewise dependent on God, have a history and an economy of salvation distinct from that of humankind…”

Actually, “the relationship between Christianity and the other religions” is not “The only available analogy for our topic” but, as noted above, the best analogy is the relationship between Christianity and the other sentient beings aka demons some of whom pretend to be extra-terrestrial aliens much in the same way that, “Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14).

It is not surprising that a Catholic would refer to universalism, “salvific universality” as they believe in one way of salvation for “the faithful” and other ways of salvation for non-Catholics. Now “salvific universality” is literally going universal in that, or so it is claimed, it “remains open to other creatures.” Well, of course, if other extra-terrestrial aliens creatures need it and YHVH offers it to them then that is wonderful.

Yet, let us be vigilant of the appearance of other extra-terrestrial aliens creatures who claim to know “God” or even “Jesus” but come to straighten us out with regards to our, Christian, theology. They may preach the mystical “Jesus” who tapped into the Christ consciousness which is something we all can do, etc. (of course, this very popular New Age/Theosophy view is preempted by the New Testament which states that at His very time of birth the angels proclaimed to the shepherds, “...today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord” Luke 2:11, thus, Jesus was “the Christ” from birth).

“…a believer who is respectful of the requirements of scientific reasoning would not be obliged to renounce his own faith in God simply on the basis of the reception of new, unexpected information of a religious character from extraterrestrial civilizations. In the first place, human reason itself would suggest the need to submit this new “religious content” coming from outside the Earth to an analysis of reasonableness and credibility (analogous to what we are accustomed to do when any religious content is proposed to us, on Earth); once the trustworthiness of the information has been verified, the believer should try to reconcile such new information with the truth that he or she already knows and believes on the basis of the revelation of the One and Triune God, conducting a re-reading inclusive of the new data, similar to that which would be applied in an ordinary interreligious dialogue.

http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/giuseppe-tanzella-nitti-comments-christianity-and-%E2%80%9Cextraterrestrial-life%E2%80%9D

Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: cassini on July 29, 2020, 03:17:17 PM
I lookled up this website and here is what it said in response to

The Rev. Jose Gabriel Funes, the Jesuit director of the Vatican Observatory, was quoted as saying the vastness of the universe means it is possible there could be other forms of life outside Earth, even intelligent ones. "How can we rule out that life may have developed elsewhere?" Funes said. "Just as we consider earthly creatures as 'a brother' and 'sister,' why should we not talk about an 'extraterrestrial brother'? It would still be part of creation..............."

To make a long story short, Roman Catholicism began from a background of various bishops with equal authority overseeing various cities. Then the Bishop of Rome claimed supreme authority. They it was claimed that there was no salvation without adherence to the Bishop of Rome aka the Pope. Later, and likewise, it was claimed that anyone contradicting Roman Catholic doctrine or dogma was anathema—eternally condemned. Then the Roman Catholic church decided that Muslims who did not convert to Catholicism or any form of Christianity are saved (see CCC# 841 (http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/new-muslim-cool-hamaz-perez)). One century Protestants were condemned to hell and the next they were “separated brethren.” And then, of course, the Vatican just went totally universalist (only condemning to hell ex-Catholics): the Pope was anointed by a Hindu. People kiss the Pope’s ring to show their allegiance to his authority, what does it mean when the Pope kissed the Qur'an? In short, Roman Catholicism is currently encouraging and celebrating each and every, all, false and YHVH condemned theologies and practices.
But how to, really truly logically and theologically, claim salvation by each and every non-, un- and anti-biblical wide path/road which humanity has (ill) conceived?
Why was it necessary for Jesus to incarnate, live, die and rise again for us? Because being sinless, He was eligible to take our sins upon Himself.'

Now I do not know Cera if this is an atheist or Catholic website, but the question of 'other worlds' and aliens has been long declared heresy by the Fathers and early popes (See A. A. Martinez book Burned Alive). This heresy crept back into the Church when in 1820-1835 popes allowed an evolved solar-system to be believed as a truth in preference a created geocentric world. You see if manking evolved on an evolved planet, then why couldn't other such worlds with intelligent life like ours evolve all around other suns (stars)? Now we face more Christs or finding ourselves in Heaven or Hell with all kinds of aliens. Now when you bring Catholicism down to that level you are dealing with NONSENSE.  And that is how and why more and more not see Catholicism as NONSENSE.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: Cera on July 29, 2020, 03:25:56 PM
I lookled up this website and here is what it said in response to

The Rev. Jose Gabriel Funes, the Jesuit director of the Vatican Observatory, was quoted as saying the vastness of the universe means it is possible there could be other forms of life outside Earth, even intelligent ones. "How can we rule out that life may have developed elsewhere?" Funes said. "Just as we consider earthly creatures as 'a brother' and 'sister,' why should we not talk about an 'extraterrestrial brother'? It would still be part of creation..............."

To make a long story short, Roman Catholicism began from a background of various bishops with equal authority overseeing various cities. Then the Bishop of Rome claimed supreme authority. They it was claimed that there was no salvation without adherence to the Bishop of Rome aka the Pope. Later, and likewise, it was claimed that anyone contradicting Roman Catholic doctrine or dogma was anathema—eternally condemned. Then the Roman Catholic church decided that Muslims who did not convert to Catholicism or any form of Christianity are saved (see CCC# 841 (http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/new-muslim-cool-hamaz-perez)). One century Protestants were condemned to hell and the next they were “separated brethren.” And then, of course, the Vatican just went totally universalist (only condemning to hell ex-Catholics): the Pope was anointed by a Hindu. People kiss the Pope’s ring to show their allegiance to his authority, what does it mean when the Pope kissed the Qur'an? In short, Roman Catholicism is currently encouraging and celebrating each and every, all, false and YHVH condemned theologies and practices.
But how to, really truly logically and theologically, claim salvation by each and every non-, un- and anti-biblical wide path/road which humanity has (ill) conceived?
Why was it necessary for Jesus to incarnate, live, die and rise again for us? Because being sinless, He was eligible to take our sins upon Himself.'

Now I do not know Cera if this is an atheist or Catholic website, but the question of 'other worlds' and aliens has been long declared heresy by the Fathers and early popes (See A. A. Martinez book Burned Alive). This heresy crept back into the Church when in 1820-1835 popes allowed an evolved solar-system to be believed as a truth in preference a created geocentric world. You see if manking evolved on an evolved planet, then why couldn't other such worlds with intelligent life like ours evolve all around other suns (stars)? Now we face more Christs or finding ourselves in Heaven or Hell with all kinds of aliens. Now when you bring Catholicism down to that level you are dealing with NONSENSE.  And that is how and why more and more not see Catholicism as NONSENSE.
I agree.
I posted this to raise awareness of the "fake staged alien invasion" being pushed by the media and now also the Vatican.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: SimpleMan on July 29, 2020, 08:00:29 PM
Well, at least Thomas Paine admits that Jesus is “called…God himself.” One option is that perhaps extra-terrestrial aliens did not experience a fall into sin and are thus, sinless. This is something about which Catholic officials have speculated. Of course, if they are sinless then they could have been our saviors and Jesus need not have died. In fact, this is how may view the extra-terrestrial aliens and why the place their hopes, their “faith” in them.
This is an absolute non sequitur.  It took God dying in the flesh to redeem us from sin.  Nothing less would do.  Even if these extra-terrestrials existed and were sinless, they would not be God.  They would be as Adam and Eve were before the Fall.  Nothing they could do --- not even dying themselves --- would redeem us, save us, and open heaven for us.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: poche on July 29, 2020, 10:53:30 PM
First of that would be IF there were to be alien life that we would learn about.  
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: Cera on July 30, 2020, 01:26:06 PM
This is an absolute non sequitur.  It took God dying in the flesh to redeem us from sin.  Nothing less would do.  Even if these extra-terrestrials existed and were sinless, they would not be God.  They would be as Adam and Eve were before the Fall.  Nothing they could do --- not even dying themselves --- would redeem us, save us, and open heaven for us.
And this is from a Vatican astronomer.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: Cera on July 30, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
First of that would be IF there were to be alien life that we would learn about.  
Good point. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to attribute "lying wonders" like flying objects to anything other than demons.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: poche on July 30, 2020, 10:36:16 PM
Good point. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to attribute "lying wonders" like flying objects to anything other than demons.
Another thing to consider is that if there is really intelligent life out there could it be that they are deliberately avoiding us? 
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: Kolar on July 31, 2020, 07:22:17 AM
The second Person of the Trinity became man on earth as a member of the human race. Angels are intelligent beings one of whose works is to enforce the natural law, therefore, including the laws of planetary motion and the stars.
If there were intelligent life in addition to angels they would have no relation to Our Lord Jesus Christ. They would have no relation to His Blessed Mother. They would be aliens if they were to be admitted to heaven, not being subjects of the King and Queen of heaven.
It seems impossible that there could be intelligent beings composed of body and soul that are not descendants of Adam.
OBJECTION: Fr. Faber speculates in one of his books, title forgotten, that there could be many planets with intelligent beings in space.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: Last Tradhican on July 31, 2020, 07:26:46 AM
The only alien life is already on Earth, they are called traditional Catholics, and the Vatican astronomer is not one of them, he is of the World, the city of Man. 
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 31, 2020, 08:47:21 AM
The Vatican Astronomer is an overpaid liberal heretic who needs to work a real job and pray. Most at the Vatican are acting like atheists.  They should be removed physically. 

There are Christians around the world starving and being severely beaten, murdered while there sloth losers at the Vatican involved in liberalism and/or orgies.  Where is the outrage?

Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: poche on July 31, 2020, 10:43:18 PM
The second Person of the Trinity became man on earth as a member of the human race. Angels are intelligent beings one of whose works is to enforce the natural law, therefore, including the laws of planetary motion and the stars.
If there were intelligent life in addition to angels they would have no relation to Our Lord Jesus Christ. They would have no relation to His Blessed Mother. They would be aliens if they were to be admitted to heaven, not being subjects of the King and Queen of heaven.
It seems impossible that there could be intelligent beings composed of body and soul that are not descendants of Adam.
OBJECTION: Fr. Faber speculates in one of his books, title forgotten, that there could be many planets with intelligent beings in space.
We don't know what relation any alien life would have with the Blessed Trinity. All of that is pure speculation. 
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: cassini on August 01, 2020, 11:49:00 AM
We don't know what relation any alien life would have with the Blessed Trinity. All of that is pure speculation.

Oh no its not, the subject of aliens has been long declared as heresy in the Catholic Church. Ever hear of a guy called Giordano Bruno, a heretic who was burned at the stake for refusing to repent on heresy?

In 1588 Bruno, wrote the following in his 5th dialogue of On the Cause, Principle, and Unity: 'I can imagine an infinite number of worlds like the Earth, with Garden of Eden on each one. In all these gardens of Eden, half the Adams and Eves will not eat the fruit of knowledge, but half will. But half of infinity is infinity, so an infinite number of worlds will fall from grace and there will be an infinite number of crucifixions.’ --- As quoted by Martinez in Burned Alive.

Here we can see the endless heresies inherent in Bruno’s works, endless Adams and Eves, sins and many Christs. In Martinez's book burned alive he details every aspect of Bruno’s beliefs, the 54 heresies and philosophies he was accused of during his long trial by the Inquisition. In most cases, Martinez tells us, Bruno was able to argue his way out of them, one way or another, but refused to retract 13 of them on the subject of substance, that the Earth has a soul, that there are many occupied worlds etc. For these heresies then, Giordano Bruno was burned alive, ‘inflicted for the gravest offenses. Other theologians too cited this heresy for centuries. They explained the problem: “we cannot assert that there exist two or many worlds, since neither do we assert two or many Christs [the only begotten son]”

 In 748AD Pope Zachary I declared heretical the belief that stars were suns with similar worlds like Earth and that on these are other intelligent beings like mankind. Rejections of these antipodean heresies are also to be found in early medieval writings. In 1459 Pope Pius II again condemned the doctrine ‘that God created another world than this one.’     
 
Martinez tells us ‘St Hippolytus [170-235AD, a martyred Christian theologian] ridiculed the doctrine of infinitely many suns, moons and worlds, some inhabited.’ The Professor tells us: ‘around 260CE Pope Dionysus of Alexandria wrote a tract against the Epicureans mainly to criticize their theory that all things were composed of atoms without divine Providence.’ Martinez explains this was directed against the theory that atoms clash and combine by chance ‘and thus gradually form this world and all objects in it; and more, that they construct infinite worlds,’ The book also shows us there were many Fathers of the Church who condemned the claim that there are many worlds like ours. He records that ‘in 384CE’ Philaster, Bishop of Brescia condemned the ‘heresy that says worlds are infinite and innumerable…whereas Scripture says that the world is one and that it teaches us that it is one.’ In 402 St Jerome complained that one of the most heretical claims of all was that ‘worlds are innumerable.’ St. Augustine even composed a list of 88 such heresies; the 77th was that ‘worlds are innumerable.’
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: cassini on August 01, 2020, 11:57:35 AM
Not that any of these heresies meant anything in the Catholic Church since 1820 when popes adopted an evolved solar system as a truth.

In 1600 Bruno was burned at the stake for such beliefs, but by 2009 the Vatican was hosting a conference bringing scientists, astronomers and religious leaders together to discuss the implications for religion and human consciousness if the discovery of extraterrestrial life is found. One statement was that aliens would be part of God’s Creation and be regarded as our ‘extraterrestrial brothers.’ With popes entertaining what was long condemned as heresy, are we to accept we could find ourselves sharing Heaven with aliens? Which leads us back to a modern version of another old heresy condemned in 748 AD, the existence of the ‘Antipodes,’ intelligent beings supposedly living beyond the reach of the Church, but this time in the form of extra-terrestrials from ‘other worlds.’

‘Father Funes described the discovery as ‘great news.’ Writing in the Vatican’s daily newspaper L’Osservatore Romano, he said: ‘Our galaxy contains more than a hundred billion stars. ‘Considering the number of exoplanets discovered, it seems that the vast majority of stars in our galaxy, at least potentially, can have planets where life could develop.’ He said that if there is intelligent life found on another planet, he does not see it as a contradiction to the Christian faith. He said: ‘The Bible is not a scientific book. If we look for scientific responses to our questions in the Bible, we are making a mistake. It is just over 380 years since the Catholic Church condemned Galileo for arguing that the Earth was not the centre of the universe. But it seems the Vatican has relaxed its view of mankind’s place in the cosmos and even believes there may be intelligent alien life out there. Astronomers at the Vatican Observatory, which has been studying the heavens since 1582, have said discoveries of new Earth like planets have strengthened their belief that there could be life on other planets.’ ---Mailonline, 8th Feb, 2018.      

In 2014, the Christian Post reported that the Jesuit Brother Guy Consolmagno president of the Vatican Observatory, proposed the eventual discovery of alien life forms after Pope Francis (2013-), mouthing about alien life forms during Mass at the Vatican, used the analogy that even Martians, should they ever visit Earth, would be welcome to be baptised. Baptism of course is a sacrament that erases Original Sin inherited only by all the descendants of Adam and Eve. Why then would a pope offer to baptise a Martian? To subject this sacrament to science-fiction and heresy shows us a rotten fruit of the Galilean reformation.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: Cera on August 01, 2020, 01:39:17 PM
First of that would be IF there were to be alien life that we would learn about.  
Other than 70 years of media pushing this notion, I see nothing whatsoever to think such things exist.
Demons, however, do exist.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: Cera on August 01, 2020, 01:46:25 PM
Oh no its not, the subject of aliens has been long declared as heresy in the Catholic Church. Ever hear of a guy called Giordano Bruno, a heretic who was burned at the stake for refusing to repent on heresy?

In 1588 Bruno, wrote the following in his 5th dialogue of On the Cause, Principle, and Unity: 'I can imagine an infinite number of worlds like the Earth, with Garden of Eden on each one. In all these gardens of Eden, half the Adams and Eves will not eat the fruit of knowledge, but half will. But half of infinity is infinity, so an infinite number of worlds will fall from grace and there will be an infinite number of crucifixions.’ --- As quoted by Martinez in Burned Alive.

Here we can see the endless heresies inherent in Bruno’s works, endless Adams and Eves, sins and many Christs. In Martinez's book burned alive he details every aspect of Bruno’s beliefs, the 54 heresies and philosophies he was accused of during his long trial by the Inquisition. In most cases, Martinez tells us, Bruno was able to argue his way out of them, one way or another, but refused to retract 13 of them on the subject of substance, that the Earth has a soul, that there are many occupied worlds etc. For these heresies then, Giordano Bruno was burned alive, ‘inflicted for the gravest offenses. Other theologians too cited this heresy for centuries. They explained the problem: “we cannot assert that there exist two or many worlds, since neither do we assert two or many Christs [the only begotten son]”

In 748AD Pope Zachary I declared heretical the belief that stars were suns with similar worlds like Earth and that on these are other intelligent beings like mankind. Rejections of these antipodean heresies are also to be found in early medieval writings. In 1459 Pope Pius II again condemned the doctrine ‘that God created another world than this one.’    
 
Martinez tells us ‘St Hippolytus [170-235AD, a martyred Christian theologian] ridiculed the doctrine of infinitely many suns, moons and worlds, some inhabited.’ The Professor tells us: ‘around 260CE Pope Dionysus of Alexandria wrote a tract against the Epicureans mainly to criticize their theory that all things were composed of atoms without divine Providence.’ Martinez explains this was directed against the theory that atoms clash and combine by chance ‘and thus gradually form this world and all objects in it; and more, that they construct infinite worlds,’ The book also shows us there were many Fathers of the Church who condemned the claim that there are many worlds like ours. He records that ‘in 384CE’ Philaster, Bishop of Brescia condemned the ‘heresy that says worlds are infinite and innumerable…whereas Scripture says that the world is one and that it teaches us that it is one.’ In 402 St Jerome complained that one of the most heretical claims of all was that ‘worlds are innumerable.’ St. Augustine even composed a list of 88 such heresies; the 77th was that ‘worlds are innumerable.’
Thank you!
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: poche on August 01, 2020, 10:29:44 PM
Oh no its not, the subject of aliens has been long declared as heresy in the Catholic Church. Ever hear of a guy called Giordano Bruno, a heretic who was burned at the stake for refusing to repent on heresy?

In 1588 Bruno, wrote the following in his 5th dialogue of On the Cause, Principle, and Unity: 'I can imagine an infinite number of worlds like the Earth, with Garden of Eden on each one. In all these gardens of Eden, half the Adams and Eves will not eat the fruit of knowledge, but half will. But half of infinity is infinity, so an infinite number of worlds will fall from grace and there will be an infinite number of crucifixions.’ --- As quoted by Martinez in Burned Alive.

Here we can see the endless heresies inherent in Bruno’s works, endless Adams and Eves, sins and many Christs. In Martinez's book burned alive he details every aspect of Bruno’s beliefs, the 54 heresies and philosophies he was accused of during his long trial by the Inquisition. In most cases, Martinez tells us, Bruno was able to argue his way out of them, one way or another, but refused to retract 13 of them on the subject of substance, that the Earth has a soul, that there are many occupied worlds etc. For these heresies then, Giordano Bruno was burned alive, ‘inflicted for the gravest offenses. Other theologians too cited this heresy for centuries. They explained the problem: “we cannot assert that there exist two or many worlds, since neither do we assert two or many Christs [the only begotten son]”

In 748AD Pope Zachary I declared heretical the belief that stars were suns with similar worlds like Earth and that on these are other intelligent beings like mankind. Rejections of these antipodean heresies are also to be found in early medieval writings. In 1459 Pope Pius II again condemned the doctrine ‘that God created another world than this one.’    
 
Martinez tells us ‘St Hippolytus [170-235AD, a martyred Christian theologian] ridiculed the doctrine of infinitely many suns, moons and worlds, some inhabited.’ The Professor tells us: ‘around 260CE Pope Dionysus of Alexandria wrote a tract against the Epicureans mainly to criticize their theory that all things were composed of atoms without divine Providence.’ Martinez explains this was directed against the theory that atoms clash and combine by chance ‘and thus gradually form this world and all objects in it; and more, that they construct infinite worlds,’ The book also shows us there were many Fathers of the Church who condemned the claim that there are many worlds like ours. He records that ‘in 384CE’ Philaster, Bishop of Brescia condemned the ‘heresy that says worlds are infinite and innumerable…whereas Scripture says that the world is one and that it teaches us that it is one.’ In 402 St Jerome complained that one of the most heretical claims of all was that ‘worlds are innumerable.’ St. Augustine even composed a list of 88 such heresies; the 77th was that ‘worlds are innumerable.’
Once upon a time many people thought that the world was flat and that if you went too far you would fall off. 
::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: cassini on August 02, 2020, 04:17:15 AM
Once upon a time many people thought that the world was flat and that if you went too far you would fall off.
::) ::) ::)

Modernism personified. Sure you could apply the same quip to those who believed in Christ and the Church He founded.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: poche on August 06, 2020, 04:15:58 AM
Modernism personified. Sure you could apply the same quip to those who believed in Christ and the Church He founded.
No, the objective moral questions are the same that they were 50 years ago and the moral response is still the same. Science may advance but what is right and what is wrong is still the same.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: cassini on August 06, 2020, 06:03:01 AM
No, the objective moral questions are the same that they were 50 years ago and the moral response is still the same. Science may advance but what is right and what is wrong is still the same.

Your response to the Church's history on aliens was:
'Once upon a time many people thought that the world was flat and that if you went too far you would fall off.'

I took that to mean the Church's teaching on aliens as heretical was somehow related to the flat-Earth belief and thus nonsense. Thus I named it 'Modernism personified.'

I am now trying to figure out the above response. It could mean that the Church teaching is still the same even if 'science' has advanced. I would agree that the Church's teaching cannot change, does not change, and remains the same. As for 'science may advance' well what advances has it made on the subject of aliens? Are you suggesting science has somehow advanced that aliens exist? If so we would all love to hear about it.

 https://philos-sophia.org/scientism-ideology/ (https://philos-sophia.org/scientism-ideology/) 

Here is what Wolfgang says if it doesn't open:

A great deal of what we call science is scientism,  which is to say that it’s ideology driven.  What we are facing here is not “science,” properly so called, but a kind of “religion” you can say. It’s something people are passionate about. It’s something they defend, and it is something for which they are willing to attack.  So a great deal of our so-called science is ideology. And, in fact, it is the ideology which is presently manifesting in all the different cultural domains of our civilization, including the political. [and Pouch's Modernism]
Title: Gal. 1:8
Post by: Geremia on August 06, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Gal. 1:8 (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drl&bk=55&ch=1&l=8-#x): "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel [e.g., 'alien revelation'] to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema."
Title: Re: Gal. 1:8
Post by: Cera on August 06, 2020, 06:18:37 PM
Gal. 1:8 (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drl&bk=55&ch=1&l=8-#x): "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel [e.g., 'alien revelation'] to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema."
Amen.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: songbird on August 07, 2020, 06:16:45 PM
the earth has life, yet man sees life to be rid of by demonic ways.  The man searches for other planets for life?  Man can not take care of the life here on earth, man being in the demonic sense.

If there were other life, they would answer to their creator, One God.

These goof balls, known as darwinist and evolutionists are the ones who want to be rid of life on this planet.  They should be the first to go into outer space and see for themselves.  

IMO, aliens are demonic.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: St Frumentius on August 08, 2020, 09:37:03 AM
"Aliens" will be demons tricking the world or part of global hologram deception akin to Project Blue Beam to make way for the rise of Antichrist.
Title: Re: Vatican astronomer: We will have to re-evaluate our Faith after alien revelation
Post by: poche on August 08, 2020, 11:43:40 PM
Your response to the Church's history on aliens was:
'Once upon a time many people thought that the world was flat and that if you went too far you would fall off.'

I took that to mean the Church's teaching on aliens as heretical was somehow related to the flat-Earth belief and thus nonsense. Thus I named it 'Modernism personified.'

I am now trying to figure out the above response. It could mean that the Church teaching is still the same even if 'science' has advanced. I would agree that the Church's teaching cannot change, does not change, and remains the same. As for 'science may advance' well what advances has it made on the subject of aliens? Are you suggesting science has somehow advanced that aliens exist? If so we would all love to hear about it.

 https://philos-sophia.org/scientism-ideology/ (https://philos-sophia.org/scientism-ideology/)

Here is what Wolfgang says if it doesn't open:

A great deal of what we call science is scientism,  which is to say that it’s ideology driven.  What we are facing here is not “science,” properly so called, but a kind of “religion” you can say. It’s something people are passionate about. It’s something they defend, and it is something for which they are willing to attack.  So a great deal of our so-called science is ideology. And, in fact, it is the ideology which is presently manifesting in all the different cultural domains of our civilization, including the political. [and Pouch's Modernism]
That is correct. Even as science advances the Churches moral teaching does not change.