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Author Topic: Ustashe and the Catholic Church  (Read 2604 times)

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Offline Mercyandjustice

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Ustashe and the Catholic Church
« on: May 05, 2020, 02:10:22 PM »
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  • Is it true that the Catholic Church supported the actions of the terroristic Croatian Ustashe group in the 1940s? The Ustashe apparently genocided many, including Orthodox Christians, forced conversions to the Catholic Church, exiled many, etc. I've read that many members of the Church were supportive or at least complicit in the Ustashe, even Pope Pius XII. How true are these acuusations? And has the Church in Croatia, or the Vatican ever apologized or said anything about this?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ustashe

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_State_of_Croatia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloysius_Stepinac#Mass_killings_and_concentration_camps


    Thank You.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #1 on: May 05, 2020, 11:59:11 PM »
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  • Despite initially welcoming the Independent State of Croatia, Stepinac subsequently[when?] condemned the nαzι-aligned state's atrocities against Jews and Serbs.[81] He objected to the persecution of Jews and nαzι laws, helped Jews and others to escape and criticized Ustaše atrocities in front of Zagreb Cathedral in 1943..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloysius_Stepinac


    Offline poche

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #2 on: May 06, 2020, 12:09:37 AM »
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  • In October 1941, shortly after the destruction of the main ѕуηαgσgυє in Zagreb, Stepinac preached a sermon in which he said,
    Quote
    A House of God, of whatever religion, is a holy place. Whoever touches such a place will pay with his life. An attack on a House of God of any religion constitutes an attack on all religious communities.[87]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloysius_Stepinac

    Offline Crawdad

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #3 on: May 06, 2020, 12:16:47 AM »
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  • wikipedia isn't a reliable source of information

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #4 on: May 06, 2020, 01:32:58 AM »
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  • I know very little but you have made me curious. Just found this which looks interesting. Better than Wikipedia at least.

    Ustashe – Croatia, the War, and the Future
    https://inavukic.com/tag/ustashe/


    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Offline poche

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #5 on: May 11, 2020, 04:48:08 AM »
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  • Stepinac, as head of the Catholic Church in the majority-Catholic Croatia, had the difficult task of opposing the Ustase’s violent and inhumane policies while still attempting to maintain peace and order in his country.
    “His duty as the head of such a big group (as) the Catholics was to go and establish a working relationship (with Pavelic),” Gitman said, a move that angered many Croatians at the time.
    “They hated each other, but he had to establish a working relationship for the sake of peace and order,” she added. 

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/how-this-croatian-cardinal-saved-thousands-of-Jєωιѕн-lives-54846

    Offline ServusInutilisDomini

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #6 on: September 17, 2022, 10:08:03 AM »
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  • Is it true that the Catholic Church supported the actions of the terroristic Croatian Ustashe group in the 1940s? The Ustashe apparently genocided many, including Orthodox Christians, forced conversions to the Catholic Church, exiled many, etc. I've read that many members of the Church were supportive or at least complicit in the Ustashe, even Pope Pius XII. How true are these acuusations? And has the Church in Croatia, or the Vatican ever apologized or said anything about this?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ustashe

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_State_of_Croatia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloysius_Stepinac#Mass_killings_and_concentration_camps


    Thank You.
    I don't know about who supported the Ustaše, however, I do know for a fact that the genocide allegation is a hoax, and Jasenovac is a hoax.

    Here is a book about what actually happened. This book was published in England because nobody would publish it in Croatia. Mrs Matković somehow managed to get access to some of the communist archives sealed for over 60 years. Most of the information and docuмents concerning WW2, the homeland war, missing persons, mass murders, etc. are in Belgrade and nobody is allowed access to them. Yes, even notices of whether someone's son is dead or alive and where he is buried. This is a major political issue in Croatia, or at least it used to be.

    To anyone familiar with the Holoax it will come as no surprise that the nαzι-affiliated Ustaše were staunch anti-communists, however, they were even very friendly with the Church and instituted many Catholic policies. For example, anyone found with pornography was executed and periodically homes were searched for pornography, there was mandatory catechism from grades 1-12, and the like.

    The claim that Cardinal Stepinac forcibly converted anyone is false. I don't know about whether somebody else was doing it. Of note is that Stepinac resisted the communist attempt to sever the Catholic Church in Croatia from Rome (like Malta) and was therefore imprisoned in a show trial and slowly poisoned to death.

    Regarding Jasenovac, there's a billion ways to prove it is a hoax, but here's some mathematical proof.



    As you can see, the lazy Chetniks (Serbian communist soldiers) preferred round years and years ending with 2 while inventing victims.

    There's a whole study analyzing birth date distribution in Jasenovac compared to other camps published in a respectable mainstream journal: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/docuмent/9306761 (tvor.hr)

    (P.S. this analysis takes other camps', such as Auschwitz, death tolls as fact. So it seems the Jews were at least smart enough to follow a normal distribution of birth dates while the Serbs were... let's say lazy...)

    Of course, the publishers distance themselves from the facts:

    The Jasenovac hoax was, of course, invented to distract from Communist murders and actual genocide that was taking place against Catholics and, funnily enough, Jews in Serbia. Yes, the non-nαzι Serbs exterminated almost all Jews in Serbia, just because they hate them.

    Another "funny" fact is that during the homeland war the population of Serbia actually increased while Croatia's was severely diminished. Today, around half of Croats live outside of Croatia.

    If you want to research an actual tragedy that you will probably find excused to no end on such idiotic sources as Wikipedia, you can look up the Bleiburg massacre (in Blanka Matković's book), colloquially called the Bleiburg way of the Cross, in which the English turn over around 400,000 prisoners of war to be massacred, almost half of them Croats.

    Offline Ferdi

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #7 on: September 17, 2022, 04:51:52 PM »
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  • Imagine believing anything about the alleged atrocities of a Catholic country which lost a war against schismatic, communist and Jєωιѕн partisans. :facepalm:

    In Croatia, Italy and Austria countless numbers of Catholics, particularly clergy, as well as Croatian and German prisoners of war were tortured and murdered in the tens of thousands by the "liberators" and their partisan allies in 1945. Even under these circuмstances the Church ennobled herself by providing refuge to many people who were persecuted for political reasons at that time.


    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #8 on: September 17, 2022, 08:41:29 PM »
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  • I don't know about who supported the Ustaše, however, I do know for a fact that the genocide allegation is a hoax, and Jasenovac is a hoax.

    Here is a book about what actually happened. This book was published in England because nobody would publish it in Croatia. Mrs Matković somehow managed to get access to some of the communist archives sealed for over 60 years. Most of the information and docuмents concerning WW2, the homeland war, missing persons, mass murders, etc. are in Belgrade and nobody is allowed access to them. Yes, even notices of whether someone's son is dead or alive and where he is buried. This is a major political issue in Croatia, or at least it used to be.

    To anyone familiar with the Holoax it will come as no surprise that the nαzι-affiliated Ustaše were staunch anti-communists, however, they were even very friendly with the Church and instituted many Catholic policies. For example, anyone found with pornography was executed and periodically homes were searched for pornography, there was mandatory catechism from grades 1-12, and the like.

    The claim that Cardinal Stepinac forcibly converted anyone is false. I don't know about whether somebody else was doing it. Of note is that Stepinac resisted the communist attempt to sever the Catholic Church in Croatia from Rome (like Malta) and was therefore imprisoned in a show trial and slowly poisoned to death.

    Regarding Jasenovac, there's a billion ways to prove it is a hoax, but here's some mathematical proof.



    As you can see, the lazy Chetniks (Serbian communist soldiers) preferred round years and years ending with 2 while inventing victims.

    There's a whole study analyzing birth date distribution in Jasenovac compared to other camps published in a respectable mainstream journal: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/docuмent/9306761 (tvor.hr)

    (P.S. this analysis takes other camps', such as Auschwitz, death tolls as fact. So it seems the Jєωs were at least smart enough to follow a normal distribution of birth dates while the Serbs were... let's say lazy...)

    Of course, the publishers distance themselves from the facts:

    The Jasenovac hoax was, of course, invented to distract from Communist murders and actual genocide that was taking place against Catholics and, funnily enough, Jєωs in Serbia. Yes, the non-nαzι Serbs exterminated almost all Jєωs in Serbia, just because they hate them.

    Another "funny" fact is that during the homeland war the population of Serbia actually increased while Croatia's was severely diminished. Today, around half of Croats live outside of Croatia.

    If you want to research an actual tragedy that you will probably find excused to no end on such idiotic sources as Wikipedia, you can look up the Bleiburg massacre (in Blanka Matković's book), colloquially called the Bleiburg way of the Cross, in which the English turn over around 400,000 prisoners of war to be massacred, almost half of them Croats.
    Well done!
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline Bl Alojzije Stepinac

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #9 on: February 11, 2023, 08:00:44 AM »
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  • Jasenovac for Croatians is a hoax like h0Ɩ0cαųst of 6 million Jєωs. When in early 60s communist started to dig, they found skeletons and uniforms od Ustasha and Domobrans who were regular army in the NDH, Nezavisna Država Hrvatska. That means in English Independent State of Croatia, literally. They stopped digging and covered up all. Some historians are finally bringing the truth on surface, but they are censored in all mainstream media in Croatia. Because all mainstream media are under control of (neo)communists and freemasons. Even in the alternative media there is a lot of false right opposition.
    I live in Croatia, and have my family members who fought in 90s against Serbians. We were betrayed behind our backs, especially in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
    Most of the cities and villages that there were ethnically cleansed were Croatian ones. That happened in 1941. also. Serbian Orthodox priests supported extreme right army, Četnici (Troopers, eng.) and some of them like pop Momčilo Džujić (Djujic) have commited war crimes personally. Never one Croatian Catholic priest let alone bishop did kill some one on attack on foreign land. If they ever killed someone, it was in self defense. After uprising of "Troopers" and communists, Ustashe took revenge and sometimes did crimes also. I'm not defending them. I had some of my ancestors in Ustasha regular army, some of them changed side to partisans later because they were losing war.
    But much of official history in schools and universities today is false, and formed by communist Yugoslavia institutions.
    Cardinal Stepinac protested against some actions against president Pavelich, but Ustashe didn't persecute Catholics at all. He was a dictator like Francisco Franco, just he was forced to choose "lesser" evil. Italian fascist wanted our coast and he could't wage war against them with no army. Serbians attacked villages and civilians even before NDH was formally founded as a state. Cardinal Stepinac had full support of the popes Pius XI. and Pius XII. He was made a cardinal when he was just a 43 years old. He was a traditionalist, he condemned priests that make compromises with communists. He rebuke doctors for doing and supporting abortions, he spoke against modernism and liberalism, and often agains Jєωιѕн Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. That's why he can't be a saint even after he is already met all requirements. At least acording to new canonization process.
    I would like to a future, real Catholic pope to start from start process of beatification because this is doubtful.
    For us Croatians, he will be a hero, a true shepard that is patriotic and faithful to the pope and God until the death.

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #10 on: February 11, 2023, 06:23:58 PM »
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  • Jasenovac for Croatians is a hoax like h0Ɩ0cαųst of 6 million Jєωs. When in early 60s communist started to dig, they found skeletons and uniforms od Ustasha and Domobrans who were regular army in the NDH, Nezavisna Država Hrvatska. That means in English Independent State of Croatia, literally. They stopped digging and covered up all. Some historians are finally bringing the truth on surface, but they are censored in all mainstream media in Croatia. Because all mainstream media are under control of (neo)communists and freemasons. Even in the alternative media there is a lot of false right opposition.
    I live in Croatia, and have my family members who fought in 90s against Serbians. We were betrayed behind our backs, especially in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
    Most of the cities and villages that there were ethnically cleansed were Croatian ones. That happened in 1941. also. Serbian Orthodox priests supported extreme right army, Četnici (Troopers, eng.) and some of them like pop Momčilo Džujić (Djujic) have commited war crimes personally. Never one Croatian Catholic priest let alone bishop did kill some one on attack on foreign land. If they ever killed someone, it was in self defense. After uprising of "Troopers" and communists, Ustashe took revenge and sometimes did crimes also. I'm not defending them. I had some of my ancestors in Ustasha regular army, some of them changed side to partisans later because they were losing war.
    But much of official history in schools and universities today is false, and formed by communist Yugoslavia institutions.
    Cardinal Stepinac protested against some actions against president Pavelich, but Ustashe didn't persecute Catholics at all. He was a dictator like Francisco Franco, just he was forced to choose "lesser" evil. Italian fascist wanted our coast and he could't wage war against them with no army. Serbians attacked villages and civilians even before NDH was formally founded as a state. Cardinal Stepinac had full support of the popes Pius XI. and Pius XII. He was made a cardinal when he was just a 43 years old. He was a traditionalist, he condemned priests that make compromises with communists. He rebuke doctors for doing and supporting abortions, he spoke against modernism and liberalism, and often agains Jєωιѕн Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. That's why he can't be a saint even after he is already met all requirements. At least acording to new canonization process.
    I would like to a future, real Catholic pope to start from start process of beatification because this is doubtful.
    For us Croatians, he will be a hero, a true shepard that is patriotic and faithful to the pope and God until the death.
    Good work Bl Aloj and also Servus, thanks for the history. 
    The popular history in these matters is never the true story in our Godless modern world.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #11 on: February 11, 2023, 07:13:29 PM »
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  • Look who is smiling in Heaven now.





    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #12 on: February 11, 2023, 09:58:13 PM »
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  • Offline Bl Alojzije Stepinac

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #13 on: February 14, 2023, 12:32:32 PM »
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  •    
    Thank you for this pictures, there were similar prelates, bishops and cardinals in Poland, Hungary, Slovenia, Ukraine, who kept the faith and never compromised with the communists and payed the highest price for it.
    So many slander, lies, calumny is pointed against bl. Alojzije Stepinac, mostly coming from Serbian Schismatic Church, who supported criminals in WWII and in Croatian's war for independance in 1990s.
    Ustashe movement was created in early 1930s in emigration, because of terror that Kingdom SHS (also known as first Yugoslavia) imposed and brutally punish all patriotic citizens. Serbian dinasty Karadjordjevic was related to Windsor dynasty, English royal family. It was member of "Mlada Bosna" (Young Bosnia), serbian terrorist group that αssαssιnαtҽd archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo which triggered the WWI. English Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ was behind it, they were supporting communists in WWII and Serbian invasion on Croatia in 90s. 
    Many people in Serbia are still distorting the truth, and their current president never apologised for massive war crimes, damage they done to Croatian people. All their official politics are defending criminals and praise them as heroes, they hide them, now they are cousing turmoil in Kosovo. 
    I believe they are preparing for another war, they are waiting for the right moment, for a wink from Putin to cause again war in Balkans. The WWIII has to include these countries and space as it was before every time.


    Look who is smiling in Heaven now.







    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Ustashe and the Catholic Church
    « Reply #14 on: April 08, 2023, 02:02:22 AM »
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  • Thanks for the thread, great information. Croatia always gets 'shoved' by fake news because they are Catholic and love their homeland. People always ignore what the serbs did...