I'm sorry if I'm proving to be an idiot about this situation.  But here's the deal:

The only reason we found out that son has a girlfriend is because I got curious and looked on Facebook.  That first picture was of son kissing this girl.  As I said previously, he had never mentioned her by name, never told us about a girl...nothing.  My H talked to him and he admitted that he was "seeing" this girl.  I talked to him, and he didn't say much.  A few days later, I asked him a couple of questions about her, he answered to the extent of what he knew (I assume), and that was that.

I haven't talked to him about this since.  However, in the meantime, I've discovered that while both her and his FB accounts are shutdown to "outsiders"...she has a profile picture of herself wearing his fire helmut and with hand holding his last name on a badge or name label to the camera. Obviously she's identifying herself with him and is serious about it.

Son graduated a couple of days ago from academy.  It was obvious (to me) that he was tense and he had told us that he was going to directly to emt class after the ceremony.  I'm positive he didn't want us hanging around.  He was with a group of people when we arrived, I recognized a couple from pictures (thanks internet!).  But son left the group and came to talk to us. He didn't introduce us to anyone then, or at all.

The emt class is at the same campus as the academy and I knew that his girlfriend was probably there.  I thought it might even have been possible that he might introduce us to her then.  But because we were forced to leave right away ... that obviously wasn't going to happen.

Today, son has updated his profile picture showing the two of them close with their head's together smiling at the camera.  It's clear that it is at the reception following the ceremony ... son is in uniform and it is the lobby.  Maybe he told her to wait to come in until we were gone.  I don't know.  

Why the secrecy? I met my H's mother less than a week after I met my (future) H...and believe me we were not planning to get married or even to get serious at that point.  Now maybe if we'd had cell phones or internet back then, it would have been somewhat different.  But my (future) H had no thought about hiding me from his family.

I just can't believe that it's come to the point where our son is actually ashamed of us and completely shutting us out of most of his life.

Legally, he's an adult and I have no right to know anything about him and what he does. But he is still our son, and he lives with us and I never imagined in a million years that something like this would happen.  Obviously, every other person he knows, either knows this girl, or knows about their relationship.  All except the people who care the most about him.

Can someone give me some feedback on this and tell me why my feelings shouldn't be hurt?  It's clear he's involved and I just don't know what to think or do about this.  It's very uncomfortable trying to talk to him about anything but the most banal trivialities.

Give the lad some space - let him know you love him no matter what...and that you are waiting and ready to discuss and be with him or meet any of his new friends when he is ready.

Again I say gently - give him some space....you have laid the groundwork in his life...it is time to stand back a little as he finds his way in the world - if that makes sense.

(I spent many years as a youth worker - and saw both kids who had been parented well and those with absentee parents if you know what i mean....and the times come to let go and trust that the work you have done will be brought to fuitian in God's time.....meanwhile give him some space and keep loving him and praying for him!)

 :applause:
Thats totally great advice! Being a trad Catholic today, is very traumatic for children. His gitrlfriend is probably not Catholic, and hes afraid of what you will say, Mrs Z.

It may not be that he is ashamed of you. Just that he is embarassed.

Their is no evidence that they are fornicating and to automatically jump to that conclusion sans evidence is crazy. The boy will bring his girlfriend over in time.

Legally, he's an adult and I have no right to know anything about him and what he does. But he is still our son, and he lives with us and I never imagined in a million years that something like this would happen.  Obviously, every other person he knows, either knows this girl, or knows about their relationship.  All except the people who care the most about him.

Legally you have no right over him Mrs Z, yet if he's living in your house, you have many rights, and should indeed demand them. And this is the reason that 'every other person he knows' knows about this girl, but you. Because if you did know, then your rights as a Catholic parent would be intrusive in his relationship, and he knows that. He wouldn't be able to say, 'oh, I'm going to study for EMT class', or 'the guys and I are going to practice our drills right now' without sounding suspicious, if he is indeed acting suspicious. The thing is, he probably does sound suspicious now, and I assure you, HE KNOWS IT.

The more I think about this, the more I think that this is not getting better. Its a soda can ready to explode. Even the smallest needle will cause an large explosion in an shaken can if the pressure is built up too soon, and I think this is happening now. I think you need to confront him, personally, but of course my 2 cents are nothing compared to that of a priest and grandparent. However, I was in an almost identical situation when I was his age; I see a lot of similarities.

Can someone give me some feedback on this and tell me why my feelings shouldn't be hurt?...It's very uncomfortable trying to talk to him about anything but the most banal trivialities.

Your feelings shouldn't be hurt, but they will be because you're human. You're a mom. And while him 'dating' a girl doesn't mean he doesn't love you, he will do things that hurt you right now for the sake of a girl. Its a stupid mistake he's making, and he will realize it, and regret it some day. My mother and I were similar in the awkwardness of our conversations. I would avoid any situation which would allow her to open up to questions, hence the 'banal trivialities'.

Again, I suggest this gets out in the open, as quickly as possible. And not on his terms (time place etc) but yours and your husbands. Also, not getting over emotional, as hard as it would be, would be vital. He may be on the defensive when you confront him about what you're 'not supposed to know' anyways, and might harp on over-emotion as attack on his relationship.

Logically, I know that I should only be dealing with what I know for sure.  Some of what I wrote was conclusions I'd drawn from my intuition based on life experience, on knowing my son (or having known my son) and observing communications on Facebook and the people at the reception.  Could I  have misconstrued things somewhat.  Maybe.  The girlfriend may have been there before we arrived and then gone to her emt class which was being held that night.  Point is, he definitely is keeping this whole thing under wraps.

I just don't know what to do about logistical things like the fact that he's on a break now between academy and his seasonal job which doesn't start for a few weeks.  We established a curfew a few weeks ago (I know, I was caught unprepared to make rules like this, because it has only recently become an issue) .... but I have no way of knowing if he's begun lying to me about where he's going and what he's doing and as long as he's polite, gives me some kind of story and comes home when he says he will ... that's all I can hope for.

Again, I don't want to lay down ultimatums and cause him to push back and leave home and end up in a worse situation.  The time for him to leave home is likely coming very soon, less than a year, as it is.

There's no reason to believe at this time that a mortal sin has been committed.  God help him, I hope and pray that's true.  But at this point, it's between him and God. We have raised him to know right from wrong. He knows his catechism by heart.  But I've known for a few years now that his interest is worldly things has only grown.  

I know that trying to raise them trad in this town with only a Novus Ordo parish was foolhardy and shortsighted.  We've spent years bashing the way things were done around here ... and yet offered no reasonable solution.  I know some people think the N.O. is invalid and that people should stay home.  But we don't believe that the n.o. is invalid, just inadequate and lacking strength and dignity.

Can you imagine how much worse this would have been with no mass every week?  No First Holy Communion, Confirmation, Confession?  

If I had to do it again living here with everything exactly as it is, I would have refrained from all that negativity and complaining.  I might have even not shut off the t.v.  a few years ago.  Fact is, not watching t.v. makes you an oddball in every group.  We were already homeschooling (weirdness) and I haven't worked outside the home since the children were babies (more odd behavior) and my H's job is international, so he doesn't work from a local office, but travels and has a home office.  We're not tied into the school or local jobs .. those are the two main anchor points of this community.

Both my H and son watch t.v. when they are away from home.  I just realized the impact of that last night.  I'm pretty slow, I guess.  H watches t.v. at the hotels he stays at, and son watches t.v. at the fire station and at other people's houses.  Why are daughter and I not doing so, if H thinks it's okay to watch away from home?  I'm going to have to talk to him about this.

I also must admit that son is basically mimicking his father's behavior in regards to having a separate life outside our home.  Because I got kind of crazed and legalistic about 10 years ago ... I started isolating myself and my children from "the world" ... and my H's friends were not and have never been part of our parish, or even regular attendees of another Christian sect ... long story short, we've never had H's friends and their wives over, and we've never gone to any of their get togethers.  

H's connection with his friends is over a game they play and drinking beer.  We've talked about getting together with these people over the years ... but for a couple reasons I didn't want to.  The mothers, while being my age, only have small children (all except one, who has a larger family, older and younger children).  Just recently, it was revealed that this families 16 year old daughter was at a "drinking party" and has "boyfriend."  The father is very lackadaisical about this development "kids will be kids" kind of thing.    

That's enough rambling.  I'm going on too long.  Point is, I'm seeing the roots of the problem more clearly now.  I should have joined the St. Vincent de Paul and Altar societies several years ago .. And I'm going to do it as soon as I can (depending on having use of my car) .. We allowed our daughter to join the youth group .. and I should have let them join a few years ago and then at least they'd know some kids who were at least going through the motions of a Catholic identity.  

I asked Mrs Z what she meant by "dating" if she meant sɛҳuąƖ relations and she answered, yes.  If I took that wrong I am sorry, but sɛҳuąƖ relations before marriage is known as fornication.  And my opinion: If I were Mrs Z I would not allow her in our home.  In my opinion, it would be showing acceptance which I would not desire.  

Quote from: s2srea

yet there are things which lead to it that can be just as damming.

Yes, but it's still better to not go through with it.

I never said, or tried to imply, that it was.