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Author Topic: Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics  (Read 7184 times)

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Offline PG

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Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2014, 05:36:41 PM »
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  • I think that better manners would bring about more unity among trads(a tough proposition).  

    Offline Man of the West

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    Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #16 on: March 04, 2014, 06:36:40 PM »
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  • Just for the record, I would love to wear a monocle but they're almost impossible to get these days. One would have to go to some sort of boutique optometrist for a custom job to fit the prescription and the eyepiece. Now there's a niche industry for some Trad eye doctor to explore!

     :detective:
    Confronting modernity from the depths of the human spirit, in communion with Christ the King.


    Offline Stella

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    Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #17 on: March 04, 2014, 06:47:21 PM »
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  • Did you hear about the two monocles that got together and made a spectacle of themselves?


    Apologies. This is an excellent topic. Please carry on.

    Mother of God, pray for us sinners.

    Offline holysoulsacademy

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    Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #18 on: March 04, 2014, 06:48:59 PM »
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  • We are quite comfortable with our decision, mainly because we have seen the destruction of the Faith from being in a parish that is compromising with Vat2.
    Not that it wasn't agonizing, but it was necessary.

    Actually, it is from the children that much truth has come forth.  

    When we were at the Indult it was my 12yo son, who served at the Altar, who first put the brakes on.  
    He got so upset at the deviations from the rubrics at the Altar that he refused to serve Mass (deviations we were seeing from our side of the altar yet were too fearful to mention anything about, lest they pull the permissions we have and then - no more Mass!).  
    We would insist that he just "go along" with the changes just to avoid any controversy.  
    After all what is he supposed to say?  
    "You are doing it wrong Father."  
    (After many years we finally had the courage to tell the Pastor - who did not serve the TLM - about what was going on and he basically could care less and told us to talk to the priests and altar servers about all the shenanigans going on).

    So we end up at the FSSP because you "supposedly" couldn't get anymore Traditional than that.  
    But many other issues arose out of that Chapel, mostly confusion about reconciling both Vat2 and Trad.  
    Again, it was the children who were having problems reconciling one with the other, and me having a difficult and more difficult time explaining how we can believe one thing on one hand and another thing on the other.

    So we came back to the Society (which we avoided mainly because we were scared of becoming schismatic, which of course now we understand differently).  
    Only to find ourselves back in the same boat.

    We attended Fr. Pfeiffer's Mass and for the first time in a long time we heard sound Doctrine.
    His sermon was inspiring and moving even to the children.  
    We all went home wishing Fr. Pfeiffer was our Pastor.  
    Then comes Sunday and I wake up weeping, because deep inside I knew we could not put ourselves in a position where the priests who are offering the Mass are compromising and accepting of Vat2. Again!
    Some will say we are depriving our children of graces and the Sacraments, but we say it is the priest who deprive our children ~ it is our baptismal Right to Receive from those ordained by God the True Faith as manifested in their teaching of Doctrine.
     
    The SSPX is not in the same position as the NO priests who accept Vat2.  
    The Vat2 priests who are from the NO sort of got tricked, duped, entranced with the Council.
    The SSPX already know the errors, were established to combat these errors, and yet they choose to adhere to Vat2.  
    Maybe some not personally, but objectively, and on those grounds we cannot continue to attend.  

    A single person like my 3rd Order Friend, they are in a totally different situation.  
    We have children to think of.
    For the girls there are the added social pressures.  
    Once they foster friendships with others and see them accept NO mindsets and attitudes the desire to be like them increases.  
    They see it as "Friend A is so nice, and they come from a Trad Family, and they let her ...(feel free to fill in the blanks), why can't we?"

    We have actually seen for ourselves a strengthening and fervency in the Faith with the children when we stayed away and sought to discern where it was we would go to Mass.  
    I truly believed they have come to value the Mass more since then.  
    The resistance to compromise I believe made our position of teaching the Faith more credible, and actually brought about a new respect and honor that was not present before.








    Offline Frances

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    Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #19 on: March 04, 2014, 09:10:50 PM »
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  •  :applause:
    Quote from: holysoulsacademy

    A single person like my 3rd Order Friend, they are in a totally different situation.  
    We have children to think of.


    When Faith is in danger, it's a deal breaker, especially with children.  With many adolescent girls, social pressure can result in lost souls. It IS different for a single adult.  I'm not going to be tempted by other women who live with one foot in the Church and the other in the world.  If other women don't like it that I'm Catholic all week long, not just for Sunday Mass, oh well!  It's their problem, not mine.  A few adolescents take this attitude, but it is VERY FEW.  How will they take a stand when their parents' lives contradict what they hear at Mass and in catechism?  Or when the sermon and catechism give conflicting and ambiguous messages?  The message they receive is that it is normal and right to be a hypocrite!
    There are many excellent sermons on YouTube, Fr. Pfeiffer's included.  The only drawback is that you'll be one Sunday behind the liturgical calendar.  It is usually a few days before they get posted.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #20 on: March 04, 2014, 09:16:06 PM »
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  • I agree wholeheartedly that we Trads cause many of our own problems.  We want God to grant the pope the grace of conversion so he can consecrate Russia and do a 1,000 pro-Catholic things, yet we can't even be charitable to those who are of "the household of the Faith".  It's truly sad.  Charity covers a multitude of sins, and if we were more charitable (ESPECIALLY to those we disagree with), then maybe God would have mercy on our sinful world.

    I mean, who cares if someone is a sedevecantist, or not one, or believe in 3 baptisms, or don't.  Or is pro-Rome, or not.  Do these things matter?  Certainly.  But the vast majority of us aren't in charge, we're not a priest, or a bishop, or an abbot.  And we're certainly not God, so let it go.  Discuss it if you must, debate if you like.  But, for heaven's sake, DO IT WITH CHARITY.  

    When there were 3 popes back in the day, and saints were on all sides of the issue, is there any record of saint A condemning and screaming at saint B for being wrong?  I think not.

    So let us pray this lent for catholic charity, in all cases, in all circuмstances.  For as St Paul said this past Sunday, "If I do all things, but I have not charity, it profits me nothing."

    Offline Frances

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    Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #21 on: March 04, 2014, 09:19:43 PM »
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  •  :roll-laugh1: :dancing-banana:
    Quote from: Stella
    Did you hear about the two monocles that got together and made a spectacle of themselves?


    Apologies. This is an excellent topic. Please carry on.


    Offline Frances

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    Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #22 on: March 04, 2014, 09:22:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Man of the West
    Just for the record, I would love to wear a monocle but they're almost impossible to get these days. One would have to go to some sort of boutique optometrist for a custom job to fit the prescription and the eyepiece. Now there's a niche industry for some Trad eye doctor to explore!

     :detective:


     :dancing-banana:
    Looking to be singular, are you?!!!  There IS an optician in the East Village (NYC) who has several monocles in his display window.  Somehow, I very much doubt he is a traditional Catholic.  


    Offline PG

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    Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #23 on: March 04, 2014, 09:36:42 PM »
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  • Being that we don't communicate in persona and that posts remain forever, I definitely check over my posts with the delete button to minimize or remove insults and the like.  

    Offline soulguard

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    Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #24 on: March 05, 2014, 08:26:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Because the Novus Ordo, Indultarians, etc. have abused this point, many trads knee-jerk the opposite direction and care nothing at all for unity.



    How has the Indult abused the "point of unity"?
    Are they not in full communion with the church?
    Is it not the fringe groups like SSPX who wilfully withhold full participation with the rest of the "Catholic" world on points of principle?

    What does it come down to? Principles or "unity"?
    Unfortunately you cannot have both completely.
    Everyone must accept some compromise.
    I hold the Sedevacantist position but I go to SSPX mass.
    Do I discuss the antipope to those who go to the SSPX? No. I dont bother causing friction because I would like to be able to continue going to mass and getting support from traditional Catholics.
    There is more that unites us than seporates us, and if anyone thinks that the Indult has nothing in common with them they deceive themselves. The Indult is very traditional, I know.

    Offline andysloan

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    Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #25 on: March 05, 2014, 09:11:06 AM »
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  • The unity of minds is a product of the unity of hearts that love each other in Christ:


    James 3:13-18


    "Who is a wise man, and endued with knowledge among you? Let him shew, by a good conversation, his work in the meekness of wisdom.  But if you have bitter zeal, and there be contentions in your hearts; glory not, and be not liars against the truth.  For this is not wisdom, descending from above: but earthly, sensual, devilish.

    For where envying and contention is, there is inconstancy, and every evil work. But the wisdom, that is from above, first indeed is chaste, then peaceable, modest, easy to be persuaded, consenting to the good, full of mercy and good fruits, without judging, without dissimulation. And the fruit of justice is sown in peace, to them that make peace."


    Summa Theologica - On Despair


    "According to the Philosopher* (Ethic. vi, 2) affirmation and negation in the intellect correspond to search and avoidance in the appetite; while truth and falsehood in the intellect correspond to good and evil in the appetite. Consequently every appetitive movement which is conformed to a true intellect, is good in itself, while every appetitive movement which is conformed to a false intellect is evil in itself and sinful. "

    * Aristotle


    Offline Emile

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    Re: Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #26 on: July 25, 2021, 10:44:31 PM »
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  • I agree wholeheartedly that we Trads cause many of our own problems.  We want God to grant the pope the grace of conversion so he can consecrate Russia and do a 1,000 pro-Catholic things, yet we can't even be charitable to those who are of "the household of the Faith".  It's truly sad.  Charity covers a multitude of sins, and if we were more charitable (ESPECIALLY to those we disagree with), then maybe God would have mercy on our sinful world.

    I mean, who cares if someone is a sedevecantist, or not one, or believe in 3 baptisms, or don't.  Or is pro-Rome, or not.  Do these things matter?  Certainly.  But the vast majority of us aren't in charge, we're not a priest, or a bishop, or an abbot.  And we're certainly not God, so let it go.  Discuss it if you must, debate if you like.  But, for heaven's sake, DO IT WITH CHARITY.  

    When there were 3 popes back in the day, and saints were on all sides of the issue, is there any record of saint A condemning and screaming at saint B for being wrong?  I think not.

    So let us pray this lent for catholic charity, in all cases, in all circuмstances.  For as St Paul said this past Sunday, "If I do all things, but I have not charity, it profits me nothing."
    “It's easy to be a naive idealist. It's easy to be a cynical realist. It's quite another thing to have no illusions and still hold the inner flame.”
     M.-L. von Franz

    Offline AspiringToHeaven

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    Re: Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #27 on: July 25, 2021, 11:11:15 PM »
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  • When the shepherd is struck, the sheep are scattered.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #28 on: July 26, 2021, 05:14:36 AM »
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  • When the shepherd is struck, the sheep are scattered.

    What shepherd would that be?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline JOANORCM

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    Re: Unity is important - even among Trad Catholics
    « Reply #29 on: July 26, 2021, 05:52:10 AM »
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  • One concern I have had during the 43 years since my conversion is the prevalence of dislike of Jews in the trad movement, which I think spills over into dislike/distrust of Jєωιѕн converts. The argument is given that the dislike is not of those of Jєωιѕн ethnicity but the Jєωιѕн religion, but it doesn't always play out that way.

    My dad was Jєωιѕн and despite that no one despises the modern (тαℓмυdic) religion more than me bc I got to see it in action. My dad was always Christian friendly and became a baptized Catholic a few days before his death. But my firsthand experience with many other Jews left me with a bad taste for the religion.

    But if we want Jews to convert to the Catholic Faith, we should be welcoming. Back in the 70s when I converted I was 18 and don't remember hearing anything negative about Jews as people but over the last 40+ years I've seen/heard a lot. Its probably why I'm still the only convert I know of Jєωιѕн ancestry. If there are others, they're keeping quiet about it.

    As for Holy Ghost vs Holy Spirit: I prefer Holy Ghost bc its trad and my  Italian grandmother said it, but I pay attention to it mostly to see if someone is NO or trad.

    2 Thessalonians 2