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Offline Tiffany

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unemployed men are a waste of space
« on: December 09, 2013, 05:51:46 AM »
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  • If you cannot find a way to earn a living in a rich country of 300,000,000 people with 50 different states you can work in where they all speak your language, then frankly you are a waste of space.


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    unemployed men are a waste of space
    « Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 06:03:51 AM »
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  • Agreed!



    I say this, knowing of course that you are trying to go somewhere special with this thread by taking his statement out of context.  
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


    Offline McFiggly

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    unemployed men are a waste of space
    « Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 06:28:25 AM »
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  • This waste of space was going to respond with bitterness, but then it remembered:

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    Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

    Offline ggreg

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    unemployed men are a waste of space
    « Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 06:54:08 AM »
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  • Failed drug tests hindering Ohio drilling hiring

    By Bob Downing Published: June 11, 2012
    The Youngstown Vindicator reported on Sunday that the lack of a drug-free work force is creating problems as drilling companies begin hiring.

    Nine of 10 unskilled workers in Columbiana County cannot pass the urine test, the paper said.

    For higher-skilled positions, two of three applicants will likely fail the drug screening, experts told the newspaper.

    In some cases, welders and pipe fitters have been brought to Ohio from other areas because the industry cannot find enough skilled or drug-free workers, the paper said.

    Marijuana and pain killers are the most common drugs reported.

    Such tests cost companies about $40 per test.

    http://www.ohio.com/blogs/drilling/ohio-utica-shale-1.291290/failed-drug...

    Offline lefebvre_fan

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    unemployed men are a waste of space
    « Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 07:05:02 AM »
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  • Whoops! Sorry I thumbed you down, Tiffany. For some reason, I thought it was you saying that. I didn't realize you were quoting someone else. Not awake yet, apparently.

    Just consider it a thumbs down for the comment and not for you from someone who has been unemployed for several months but is thankfully starting a new job next month (thank you St. Joseph!). I just wish it didn't count against your statistics, though.

    Anyone looking for work may want to try the following novena, it worked for me! Granted, it didn't work right away. I kept saying it over and over, and didn't get any results. Finally, I got the opportunity to go to Confession and Mass, then the following morning I said it, and less than 10 minutes later, I got a call offering me a job (at 8:10 in the morning, no less. I mean, who calls that early for such a thing? Obvious sign of Divine intervention, if you ask me). I guess it makes sense that God wouldn't want to reward someone who was almost certainly in mortal sin, but obviously he did care about my plight and was gracious to me after I'd squared things up with him. Anyway, here's the novena:

    Quote
    Prayer to St. Joseph

    Oh, St. Joseph,
    whose protection is so great, so prompt, so strong,
    before the throne of God,
    I place in you all my interests and desires.
    Oh, St. Joseph,
    do assist me by your powerful intercession,
    and obtain for me from your Divine Son
    all spiritual blessings, through Jesus Christ, our Lord.
    So that, having engaged here below your heavenly power,
    I may offer my thanksgiving and homage to the most Loving of Fathers.
    Oh, St. Joseph,
    I never weary contemplating you and Jesus asleep in your arms;
    I dare not approach while He reposes near your heart.
    Press Him in my name and kiss His fine Head for me and
    Ask Him to return the Kiss when I draw my dying breath.
    St. Joseph, Patron of departed souls - pray for me.

    Amen.

    This prayer was found in the fiftieth year of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. In 1505 it was sent from the Pope to Emporer Charles, when he was going into battle. Whoever shall read this prayer or hear it, or keep it about themselves, shall never die a sudden death or be drowned, nor shall poison take effect on them; neither shall they fall into the hands of the enemy, or shall be burned in any fire or shall be overpowered in any battle.

    Say for nine mornings in a row for anything you may desire. It has never been known to fail.


    A friend of mine also told me to say it every morning before 11am, or else I'd have to start over. Not sure if that makes a difference or not, but it might be worth keeping in mind.
    "The Catholic Church is the only thing which saves a man from the degrading slavery of being a child of his age."--G. K. Chesterton


    Offline McFiggly

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    unemployed men are a waste of space
    « Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 07:15:01 AM »
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  • Actually, from what I can gather ggreg seems like a decent man. I think that if we were living in a time where the Church was strong and Bishops took the Faith and their pastoral responsibilities more seriously, ggreg wouldn't have fallen into the errors that he has. Glancing through past posts on the forum, I would identify ggreg as being somebody with enough of what St. Thomas calls the "Natural Virtues", but with comparatively little of those "Supernatural Virtues" that are uniquely Christian. This is natural, because I gather that ggreg is a "self-made" businessman, and such men, while organized and hardworking, are prone to the sins of pride and worldliness. He's a typical Bourgeois. Seeing as I've been indirectly called a "waste of space", ggreg, I hope that you don't mind that I call you directly a typical Bourgeois, being a far better man than I. I'm sure it's easy for you to look down on the poor seated up high on the throne of modern luxuries, but none of the original Christians nor did any of the Saints share that same indignation.

    Quote from: Matthew 8:20
    And Jesus saith to him: The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air nests: but the son of man hath not where to lay his head.


    Was Jesus of Nazareth a waste of space, ggreg? I feel like a hypocrite admonishing you, because after all I am a waste of space, I don't deny it. My sloth is disgraceful. If you accuse me of pride and sloth, and I accuse you of pride and worldliness, will either of us profit? Won't it be the blind leading the blind into the pit? Ggreg, does your success in the man-made world of business give you the right to condemn men living on the created earth, God's footstool? I read a post where you spoke snidely of a young working class girl that you once took to a restaurant. Yes, I'm sure God will punish her for being so ignorant as to order "chicken and chips" at a fine French restaurant, but do you not fear how God will judge you for the spite in your heart?

    Ggreg, you have privileges that the poor don't have, which is why God's judgement of you will be more harsh. I am a waste of space because I don't seek employment with any where near the diligence that I should, but you too are a waste of space for not seeking the grace of God with any where near the diligence that you should. We are both wastes of space, both dust and ashes. So is it Christian for us to be accusing one and other?

    Quote from: James 4:8
    Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners: and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

    Offline ggreg

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    unemployed men are a waste of space
    « Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 08:17:07 AM »
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  • So what stops you from getting a job?  You are clearly articulate, have a good command of English.  Why not simply plan, research, and act.  Persevere until you are successful?

    Work intelligently at the first job and develop a plan as to where you will go from there.

    You have a TON of material on YouTube and the rest of the Internet showing you how to do everything from repairing washing machines to making Christmas decorations to sell on eBay.  The overwhelming majority of this information is in English.  You are in a market of 300,000,000 people looking for stuff on ebay and other commerce sites.  Americans are consumerist loonies who will buy any old crud.  Back in the 1970s they bought pet rocks.  They buy certificates saying they own a piece of the moon.

    Have you even experimented with eBay?  Why not buy a scrap washing machine strip it down for parts and sell the parts online.  You can get the washing machine for free from someone who wants it hauled away.  If someone needs a pump, or a motor on a control panel they are going to pay you at least 30 dollars plus postage just for the convenience of being able to get one.  A new pump is probably 120 dollars.

    What have you got to lose by trying.  The input costs are close to zero.  If you sell just one part you cover your gas picking it up.  You also learn how to strip down a washing machine, which means over time you could repair one and resell that as a working unit.

    Want to make even more money, then buy a scrap motorcycle.  You don't even need to interact with your customers.  Just send them the right parts, quickly and don't jerk them around.  Motorcycle parts are very expensive second hand and the profit margin by stripping them down is high.  

    There are a million better ideas, but this is just one very simple one.  The guy from Costa Rica or China or Mexico or the UK cannot ship to your 300,000,000 countrymen as easily as you can.

    What is for sure is that my spiritual state has nothing to do with your unemployed state.  I could be a saint or the biggest worldling going but my advice on this matter would still be correct.

    If Traditional Catholicism has anything to recommend it, why can't you turn its virtues of discipline, self sacrifice, clear and critical thinking, humility etc. into a practical plan to get you off your arse and providing some value adding service to a person or business that is prepared to pay you for it?

    I recommended an Indian guy for a sales job recently.  He was a nice enough intelligent guy, in his mid 20s, but he had a terribly strong Indian accent.  It was his first sales job, no proven sales experience.  I did warn the company that his Indian accent would be a problem for him selling on the telephone.  The job pays $65k per year.  They liked him because he knew something about business telephone services, but frankly nothing you couldn't learn with a couple of weeks study and watching youtube videos.

    Why isn't a native English speaker with a neutral accent getting that job, if there are so many hard working, willing and able white English speakers out there?  Some recent import from India is beating white natives in the job market.  Ok, $65k before tax, isn't much but it is not too bad for 26 years old.  It is a good steeping stone to bigger things.

    I work in the business world and I am regularly asked by clients to interview people from junior to senior so they can get an objective third party opinion. I can assure you that long term unemployment in your early 20s are the kiss of death.  They mark you as unemployable and you need to think smart and have a very cunning plan to negate them.


    Offline ggreg

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    « Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 08:26:18 AM »
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  • I see you are in Yorkshire, England McFiggly.

    People in England who complain of being "Poor" make me laugh.  You should travel the world a little and see some real poverty.  Nobody is poor in England, not in an absolute sense.  Between tax credits, welfare, no council tax or local taxes, free dental, free medical prescriptions, heavily subsidized education and getting your rent paid by the government, you really have little to complain about.

    And Yorkshiremen complaining about strong opinions.  Well that is just laughable.


    Offline ggreg

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    unemployed men are a waste of space
    « Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 08:34:56 AM »
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  • A report published in the Independent recently suggested that too many unemployed graduates are guilty of “job snobbery” by turning down work they consider menial. So then, are we really seeing a build-up of graduates all clinging on to their degrees in Marketing and Media Studies waiting for that dream job whilst turning down those jobs serving coffee?  With the latest figures showing another 15,000 people aged 16 to 24 becoming unemployed in June, is the truth that a huge cross section of graduates believe some jobs are below them?

    According to an advisor in the Portsmouth Job Centre, who wished to remain anonymous, it isn’t a rare situation. “We get a lot of young people in here who genuinely want to work but have a mental list of jobs that they just won’t do.” He adds, “A high number are recent graduates who come to us with the genuine belief that they will walk away with a few interviews for 25k+ a year (40,000USD) roles. Unfortunately on too many occasions, we are having to dampen their expectations.”

    Expectation. A word which crops up in almost every conversation I have on this subject. From the job centre, to undergraduates, to lecturers, to the unemployed. It is the one thing, despite the UK’s obvious socio-economic problems over the past few years, that crops up more than any other. As society’s class distinctions have been eroded, our ability to dream of landing that well-paid job has flourished. For the increasing number of graduates, the expectation is that they will at least secure a job mildly relevant to the degree they invested so much time in. The reality for so many is, for a few years at least, working jobs that you never thought you’d be doing.

    We are in danger of creating a job market that makes no sense, where graduates are unprepared for the patience required to gain the career they want. A fact that Tim, an accountant living in Nottingham, thinks people are missing, “[Graduates] should have realistic expectations regarding jobs and if they can’t get a job they want then they should take whatever is on offer whilst they work towards/train to get the job they want.”

    In an increasingly competitive graduate job market the situation is tougher than it has ever been. With reports suggesting 50% more graduates are more likely to end up in non-graduate jobs when they leave university than students a decade ago, it’s hardly surprising that some graduates seem to actively choose the dole rather than a ‘menial’ job.

    Even when talking to current students the feelings are pretty similar. According to one student, Kay, who is studying at the University of Portsmouth, it is more a question of prospects than it is about reward. “I just want to know that the hard work I’ve put in will at least land me something which I can work towards, not just some dead end job. I’d rather live with my mum and claim jobseeker’s than work in McDonald’s.”

    For Ollie, a 24-year-old economics graduate, the truth is hard to digest. “I graduated 18 months ago but have yet to find anything that’s suitable. All in all I’ve applied for around 150 jobs during that time and have had around seven serious interviews but progress is slow.” When asked about taking a different job Ollie’s outlook was fairly negative. “It’s not that I feel I’m better than working in a coffee shop but at the minute I’d rather stay on jobseeker’s and bide my time and wait for the right opportunity.” Whatever the reason, the reality is, more often than not, hard to swallow. The fact that graduates now see the dole as an increasingly accepted part of post-education is worrying. For most of the population the idea of living on the dole, even for just a short amount of time, is about as desirable as waking up next to a rotting corpse, but it is becoming increasingly common. Some reports suggest that as many as 13% of male graduates have spent more than six months on jobseeker’s allowance, a staggering statistic for something that still carries the stigma of embarrassment for many.

    Back in July I wrote an article about the graduate problem. In a way the issue is that some graduates think a degree is an entitlement to a higher wage rather than seeing it as a tool to help them work towards a higher wage. A degree should be about taking that qualification and using it as a platform to become a better person, almost the foundations for what you achieve once you leave.

    At least for most, the thought of unemployment still carries the shudder of worry it probably should. As a college tutor myself, I always feel the need to ask my students about their opinions on everything from international terrorism to that noise called dubstep. So when I asked one of them whether he would rather work than be on the dole his response was pretty unambiguous: “Being on the dole would make me depressed but then so would working at McDonald’s, but I’d rather be depressed and have money than depressed and living at my mums.” Good lad Johnny, good lad.

    Offline McFiggly

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    unemployed men are a waste of space
    « Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 08:54:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    So what stops you from getting a job?  You are clearly articulate, have a good command of English.  Why not simply plan, research, and act.  Persevere until you are successful?


    Nothing apart from my own wretched sloth.


    Quote
    What is for sure is that my spiritual state has nothing to do with your unemployed state.  I could be a saint or the biggest worldling going but my advice on this matter would still be correct.


    Agreed. I do feel a hypocrite for responding the way I did; it was mostly out of bitterness and resentment. I apologize.

    Quote
    If Traditional Catholicism has anything to recommend it, why can't you turn its virtues of discipline, self sacrifice, clear and critical thinking, humility etc. into a practical plan to get you off your arse and providing some value adding service to a person or business that is prepared to pay you for it?


    First of all, I'm such a novice that I'd blush to call myself a "Traditional Catholic" except in the technical sense that I assent to its doctrine. My way of life doesn't deserve such a title, and it's obvious that you are closer to embodying that life than I am. I'm infected with sloth and a proud loathing for the world of business and employment because I falsely associate it mentally with materialism and greed, but that doesn't at all excuse me for my laziness. I coasted through school because the tests were easy, and it's made me proud and complacent. I had a tumour on my brain a few years ago and it, along with the awful depression I had at the time, made me worn out and tired. I had the tumour removed but I had not recovered physically from it, nor by then had my depression subsided, and so I dropped out of University in the first year because I couldn't keep up. It's left me with a defeatist and detached attitude that I really need to get rid of. It's a huge problem. Your advice is sound but it is lost on me because I hardly have the motivation to carry out such tasks. I need a spiritual revival which is partly why I'm attracted to the Church (the main reason I'm attracted to it is because it's True). My parents are unable to provide any real motivation because they have nothing in the way of belief or religion, and their parenting mostly comes down to loving me the best that they can and hoping I'll find my own way (typical "Boomers" in that sense). I love and honour my parents, but what I really need right now is a firm rebuke, somebody to tell me that I'm going down the wrong road while also guiding me down the right one.

    I don't mean to overwhelm you with my personal history. I'm not asking for you to step in as a father or mentor figure at all; I'm not delusional enough to expect that from some distant acquaintance on an internet forum. My main reason for being here is just for discussion and leisure, which is quite bad actually because I have far, far too much of the latter already. The good thing is that I have a decent grasp of my errors, what I lack is the fortitude to correct them.

    Thank you for your well-intentioned advice. I didn't deserve such a response from the way I accused you. Let me also clear up a misconception that you have: I'm English (born and raised), not American. I made my response not because you called Americans that are unemployed wastes of space, but just because you used that term to describe anyone that is unemployed. It's my shattered self-esteem that speaks out when I hear such terms being used. Again, I apologize for my nasty response and hope that, being the better man, you'll forgive me.

    Offline McFiggly

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    unemployed men are a waste of space
    « Reply #10 on: December 09, 2013, 09:03:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    A report published in the Independent recently suggested that too many unemployed graduates are guilty of “job snobbery” by turning down work they consider menial. So then, are we really seeing a build-up of graduates all clinging on to their degrees in Marketing and Media Studies waiting for that dream job whilst turning down those jobs serving coffee?  With the latest figures showing another 15,000 people aged 16 to 24 becoming unemployed in June, is the truth that a huge cross section of graduates believe some jobs are below them?

    According to an advisor in the Portsmouth Job Centre, who wished to remain anonymous, it isn’t a rare situation. “We get a lot of young people in here who genuinely want to work but have a mental list of jobs that they just won’t do.” He adds, “A high number are recent graduates who come to us with the genuine belief that they will walk away with a few interviews for 25k+ a year (40,000USD) roles. Unfortunately on too many occasions, we are having to dampen their expectations.”

    Expectation. A word which crops up in almost every conversation I have on this subject. From the job centre, to undergraduates, to lecturers, to the unemployed. It is the one thing, despite the UK’s obvious socio-economic problems over the past few years, that crops up more than any other. As society’s class distinctions have been eroded, our ability to dream of landing that well-paid job has flourished. For the increasing number of graduates, the expectation is that they will at least secure a job mildly relevant to the degree they invested so much time in. The reality for so many is, for a few years at least, working jobs that you never thought you’d be doing.

    We are in danger of creating a job market that makes no sense, where graduates are unprepared for the patience required to gain the career they want. A fact that Tim, an accountant living in Nottingham, thinks people are missing, “[Graduates] should have realistic expectations regarding jobs and if they can’t get a job they want then they should take whatever is on offer whilst they work towards/train to get the job they want.”

    In an increasingly competitive graduate job market the situation is tougher than it has ever been. With reports suggesting 50% more graduates are more likely to end up in non-graduate jobs when they leave university than students a decade ago, it’s hardly surprising that some graduates seem to actively choose the dole rather than a ‘menial’ job.

    Even when talking to current students the feelings are pretty similar. According to one student, Kay, who is studying at the University of Portsmouth, it is more a question of prospects than it is about reward. “I just want to know that the hard work I’ve put in will at least land me something which I can work towards, not just some dead end job. I’d rather live with my mum and claim jobseeker’s than work in McDonald’s.”

    For Ollie, a 24-year-old economics graduate, the truth is hard to digest. “I graduated 18 months ago but have yet to find anything that’s suitable. All in all I’ve applied for around 150 jobs during that time and have had around seven serious interviews but progress is slow.” When asked about taking a different job Ollie’s outlook was fairly negative. “It’s not that I feel I’m better than working in a coffee shop but at the minute I’d rather stay on jobseeker’s and bide my time and wait for the right opportunity.” Whatever the reason, the reality is, more often than not, hard to swallow. The fact that graduates now see the dole as an increasingly accepted part of post-education is worrying. For most of the population the idea of living on the dole, even for just a short amount of time, is about as desirable as waking up next to a rotting corpse, but it is becoming increasingly common. Some reports suggest that as many as 13% of male graduates have spent more than six months on jobseeker’s allowance, a staggering statistic for something that still carries the stigma of embarrassment for many.

    Back in July I wrote an article about the graduate problem. In a way the issue is that some graduates think a degree is an entitlement to a higher wage rather than seeing it as a tool to help them work towards a higher wage. A degree should be about taking that qualification and using it as a platform to become a better person, almost the foundations for what you achieve once you leave.

    At least for most, the thought of unemployment still carries the shudder of worry it probably should. As a college tutor myself, I always feel the need to ask my students about their opinions on everything from international terrorism to that noise called dubstep. So when I asked one of them whether he would rather work than be on the dole his response was pretty unambiguous: “Being on the dole would make me depressed but then so would working at McDonald’s, but I’d rather be depressed and have money than depressed and living at my mums.” Good lad Johnny, good lad.


    Yes, I suffer from the same laughable arrogance described here. Being puffed up by teachers at my old schools, I set a high goal for myself and now there's a repulsion that comes to working in lower-end jobs. At the minute I'm not even on the dole. I plan to make a resolve at New Year's to renew and quadruple every effort I had towards seeking employment. I really need to obliterate all of my self-loathing and apathy and find happiness and perseverance in living in a way satisfying to God.


    Offline ggreg

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    unemployed men are a waste of space
    « Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 09:12:19 AM »
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  • Seems to me like you are using Traditional Catholicism as a crutch.  And believe me around here you will have no shortage of people who will make you feel it is good to avoid the "evils of the world" by avoiding the world altogether.  Because guess what, apart from particularly fortunate people like me who get called by their clients, most working people are too darned busy to spend much time on these forums.  Those that can spend much time are overwhelmingly underemployed.

    In reality, there are lot of businesses that are not full of the greedy or ruthless.  I know businessmen who take great pride and social responsibility in employing people and helping them pay mortgages and pay for families.  I know others who do mentor people and give opportunities to young people. Some business people give the vast majority of their money away.  I work for a guy worth 300 million who lives a pretty ordinary middle class life, you would never know he was worth what he was worth.  He has given hundreds of millions away to good causes.

    Most business people I know work their asses off.  They work hard all week, travel and often do their accounts or taxes at the weekend.  The feckless don't really do anything except sit around and moan about it.

    If unemployed Trads spent 8 hours a day in front of the a Blessed Sacrament, then they would not be able to jump down my throat every-time I point out that third worlders are beating them for jobs.  The fact that they can reply within an hour shows you how much time they are spending on the Internet.  My living is on the Internet, which is my excuse.  But really, what is theirs?

    Most businesses are small businesses not huge corporations.  You can find a job at a family owned business and contribute to ordinary people's livelihoods.  Take that very clever brain of yours, study on the Internet and find out ways to save them money, reduce their tax bill, order their stock more effectively and a million other things that don't involve dishonesty or theft.

    First off however you have to change your outlook on life.

    Offline McFiggly

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    « Reply #12 on: December 09, 2013, 09:24:55 AM »
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  • To say that I'm demoralized and disenchanted with life would be an understatement. I feel like I've been storing up bile and resentment in my heart from a young age. Half of me loved the beautiful promises of life, and the other half shuddered at its cruelties. Without religion I was unable to reconcile the two, and became double-minded. It does not help at all that the media loves to stress those cruelties of life, nor does it help that popular entertainment basks in sentimentalism and romantic idealism which can never be fulfilled in real life. Without religion, my main bearings on life came from those two sources, and they've left me feeling sick, dizzy, disoriented, directionless. Yet wallowing in self-pity is wretchedness itself, so it profits me nothing to blame things external to myself when I do nothing to cure the sicknesses within.

    If my words are understood one ought to see why the Catholic Faith calls to me.

    Quote from: Matthew 11:28-30
    28 Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you.
    29 Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.
    30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.


    Quote from: John 16:33
    These things I have spoken to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you shall have distress: but have confidence, I have overcome the world.

    Offline McFiggly

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    « Reply #13 on: December 09, 2013, 09:30:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    Seems to me like you are using Traditional Catholicism as a crutch.  And believe me around here you will have no shortage of people who will make you feel it is good to avoid the "evils of the world" by avoiding the world altogether.


    I understand how you would come to this conclusion, but it's not the precise truth. I'm not here to feel better about myself because I'm a "Traditional Catholic". Like I said before, I do not consider myself Traditional Catholic except by technicality. I do not consider myself better or more saintly than others because I presume to have the Catholic Faith (I lack the faith, I only acknowledge that I need it dearly). I'm not interested in "Traditional Catholicism", I'm interested in Catholicism, in Christianity, in Christ's Church and in Christ Himself. I come here because I think that "Traditional Catholicism", as its called, is the closest thing today, doctrinally, to the True Faith. I'm not using it as a crutch, at least not entirely. I need God.

    Quote
    First off however you have to change your outlook on life.


    Couldn't agree more.

    Offline Cantarella

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    unemployed men are a waste of space
    « Reply #14 on: December 09, 2013, 10:11:28 AM »
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  • Why taking out isolated sentences from other member's posts and starting a new thread about them?

    It seems that you are no looking for a real discussion about unemployed men Tifanny, but only for harsh criticism on a sentence with no context, made by a member that apparently you are not very fond of. What is the purpose of your thread?
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.