Author Topic: unemployed men are a waste of space (Read 12456 times)

lefebvre_fan · « **Reply #60 on:** December 12, 2013, 06:18:54 AM »

I think this is why I don't come here very often anymore. There's an almost Calvinistic streak that has entered this forum, a view that worldly success is somehow an indicator of spiritual well-being, and that if you don't make over $60,000 a year, have a house, two cars, are married and have x number of kids, there's something defective in your spiritual life. I don't mean this to sound like a personal attack, but it's true what they say, a forum usually takes on the personality of its moderator(s). Unfortunately, Matthew seems to be of this mode of thinking, and that's why most of the rest of this forum has gone along with it.

What has happened to Christianity being the religion of the poor, the orphan, the widow? I'm not saying we should go all liberation theology or anything, but having a little more charity for those in dire circuмstances would be a good thing, I think. I'm glad I get to interact with poor people, people with disabilities, etc., on a regular basis. It keeps me honest, and makes me realize that not everyone has the advantages that I have (not to mention, it gives me ample reason to pray for those around me, which ultimately benefits me, too).

lefebvre_fan · « **Reply #61 on:** December 12, 2013, 06:22:53 AM »

Perhaps if ggreg is looking to do something good for his fellow man (and he's not just interested in making himself feel important), perhaps he could put on a workshop for job seekers and allow them to benefit from his knowledge and experience. I'm sure it would be well attended and greatly appreciated. Just be sure to check the 'you're all just a bunch of lazy sods' attitude at the door; no one will want to hear that.

soulguard · « **Reply #62 on:** December 12, 2013, 06:41:23 AM »

Question for ggreg:

Are those who are unemployed, who live a religious life, for example of a "hermit" - worthy of esteem, or are they waste of space?

Is there use in what they do?

Thorn · « **Reply #63 on:** December 12, 2013, 07:33:41 AM »

SG Of course, there's use & merit for the religious life!!!!! What kind of question is that for a Catholic forum poster?!! Do you believe that even Ggreg would believe that people in religious life don't work? There's is the hardest & highest work. Hopefully you're talking about a true hermit or some one in a true religious order.

soulguard · « **Reply #64 on:** December 12, 2013, 08:18:22 AM »

Quote from: Thorn

SG Of course, there's use & merit for the religious life!!!!! What kind of question is that for a Catholic forum poster?!! Do you believe that even Ggreg would believe that people in religious life don't work? There's is the hardest & highest work. Hopefully you're talking about a true hermit or some one in a true religious order.

I don't mean to cast doubts on ggreg, I like his posts, and I would not be able to do such a thing anyway. But my question was more or less about myself, even though I did not say so. I was wondering if he would think it was a worthy way to spend one's life, as a hermit, even if an order did not accept me. Or am I only "employed in religious life" if an order says so? So many saints would have been disqualified from orders going by today's criteria.
St John of God for example, he was in an insane asylum, but an order took him on. The church is not the same as it was back then. It used to be that monasteries were places of penance.
Summa Theologica mentions that if a man killed his wife that a monastery would be a fitting place to do penance. I am trying to swing this post so that whatever answer he says will stay on the topic of this thread. Some people might have a vocation, but it will not be recognised, so then if they do it anyway, outside an order, are they a waste of space who should be employed in the world?

Memento · « **Reply #65 on:** December 12, 2013, 10:14:42 AM »

Quote from: soulguard

Quote from: Thorn
SG Of course, there's use & merit for the religious life!!!!! What kind of question is that for a Catholic forum poster?!! Do you believe that even Ggreg would believe that people in religious life don't work? There's is the hardest & highest work. Hopefully you're talking about a true hermit or some one in a true religious order.

I don't mean to cast doubts on ggreg, I like his posts, and I would not be able to do such a thing anyway. But my question was more or less about myself, even though I did not say so. I was wondering if he would think it was a worthy way to spend one's life, as a hermit, even if an order did not accept me. Or am I only "employed in religious life" if an order says so? So many saints would have been disqualified from orders going by today's criteria.
St John of God for example, he was in an insane asylum, but an order took him on. The church is not the same as it was back then. It used to be that monasteries were places of penance.
Summa Theologica mentions that if a man killed his wife that a monastery would be a fitting place to do penance. I am trying to swing this post so that whatever answer he says will stay on the topic of this thread. Some people might have a vocation, but it will not be recognised, so then if they do it anyway, outside an order, are they a waste of space who should be employed in the world?

No way are they a waste of space! http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02442a.htm

St. Benedict Joseph Labre

It might be harder today because we do not live amongst Catholics or Catholic Churches but you can find out if it can be done. Prayers for you Soulguard that you find your vocation.

Frances · « **Reply #66 on:** December 12, 2013, 11:45:40 AM »

:dancing-banana:In a bygone era, I'd have become a nun in a teaching order. But God willed for me to be born in 1960. So I live out my vocation in the world on my own. I have no problem with the path I've taken as I believe it is what Our Lord would want. If the world or other Trads. don't approve? Oh, well! They'll get over it!

claudel · « **Reply #67 on:** December 12, 2013, 12:52:50 PM »

Quote from: lefebvre_fan

Perhaps if ggreg is looking to do something good for his fellow man (and he's not just interested in making himself feel important), he could put on a workshop for job seekers and allow them to benefit from his knowledge and experience. …

News flash! ggreg has already gone you one better (click on the link). For his trouble he was obscenely insulted by everyone's favorite apprentice intellectual Trad catechumen, soulguard (to such an extent that Matthew excised a pair of soulguard's evil comments). Shortly after, Tiffany piled on. Her specialty—one you too seem to aspire to mastering—is drive-by sneering at her betters.

Quote from: lefebvre_fan

… Just be sure to check the "you're all just a bunch of lazy sods" attitude at the door; no one will want to hear that.

Here you are clearly correct in your reproof. Whatever ggreg's intent, his comments might be taken as suggesting that all of the able-bodied un- and underemployed are wankers, layabouts, or both. Since he's right about probably only 98.7% of the cases, he needs to get a severe reprimand for inexcusable exaggeration.

Bad, ggreg; bad! No jam on your crumpets today!

soulguard · « **Reply #68 on:** December 12, 2013, 01:23:28 PM »

Quote from: claudel

News flash! ggreg has already gone you one better (click on the link). For his trouble he was obscenely insulted by everyone's favorite apprentice intellectual Trad catechumen, soulguard (to such an extent that Matthew excised a pair of soulguard's evil comments). Shortly after, Tiffany piled on. Her specialty—one you too seem to aspire to mastering—is drive-by sneering at her betters.

!

I desire to mend my fences with ggreg. For the record I have nothing against him. I only asked him a question about whether he thinks his opinion applies also to religious, or people unemployed for religious reasons.
I would like to see him answer it. It would clear up a lot...

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #69 on:** December 13, 2013, 10:59:33 AM »

Quote from: claudel

Here you are clearly correct in your reproof. Whatever ggreg's intent, his comments might be taken as suggesting that all of the able-bodied un- and underemployed are wankers, layabouts, or both. Since he's right about probably only 98.7% of the cases, he needs to get a severe reprimand for inexcusable exaggeration.

Bad, ggreg; bad! No jam on your crumpets today!

Your view on work is purely liberal (or should I say libertarian since they are the same) in that you see human beings as simple means of production for society when human beings are people not meant to be exploited but on the contrary are to be supported by a higher wage which can lead to an increase of births within the nation.

Your views on markets are also purely liberal (or should I say libertarian) in that you see free markets and free trade as the pathway to peace, life of goodness, and happiness, and if only we can cut enough taxes, paradise on Earth!

This Economism is basically Marxism in reverse which sees man as an economic animal. How about instead of blaming the worker we should blame the businesses since the Fortune 500 owns the government these days and outsources work and jobs and insources work and jobs---for immigrants. All of this leads to more money in their pockets, as profit for them soars and a decrease of workers' wages which has not risen since the Nixon era.

claudel · « **Reply #70 on:** December 13, 2013, 02:44:56 PM »

Quote from: Traditional Guy 20

Your view on work is purely liberal (or should I say libertarian since they are the same) in that you see human beings as simple means of production for society when human beings are people not meant to be exploited but on the contrary are to be supported by a higher wage which can lead to an increase of births within the nation.

Your views on markets are also purely liberal (or should I say libertarian) in that you see free markets and free trade as the pathway to peace, life of goodness, and happiness, and if only we can cut enough taxes, paradise on Earth!

This Economism is basically Marxism in reverse which sees man as an economic animal. How about instead of blaming the worker we should blame the businesses since the Fortune 500 owns the government these days and outsources work and jobs and insources work and jobs---for immigrants. All of this leads to more money in their pockets, as profit for them soars and a decrease of workers' wages which has not risen since the Nixon era.

You left out the part about my preference for carnal relations with sheep. Is that just your famous delicacy and good taste manifesting themselves again?

Your virtually 2,400 posted comments, chock full of self-indulgent whining, rank ignorance, and illiterate invective, seem to be the sum and substance of what you have to show for your twenty-something years of existence. No wonder you loathe ggreg! Whatever failings he may have and however grievous they may be, here and elsewhere there is clear evidence that he has practiced the corporal works of mercy—and without bragging about it. Nothing of the sort can be said for you.

Only if your moral and intellectual universe should ever expand beyond the tips of your extended fingers will you see how shamefully you abuse whatever talents the Lord has entrusted you with.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #71 on:** December 13, 2013, 02:54:27 PM »

Quote from: claudel

You left out the part about my preference for carnal relations with sheep. Is that just your famous delicacy and good taste manifesting themselves again?

What on earth are you blabbing about?

Quote

Your virtually 2,400 posted comments, chock full of self-indulgent whining, rank ignorance, and illiterate invective, seem to be the sum and substance of what you have to show for your twenty-something years of existence. No wonder you loathe ggreg! Whatever failings he may have and however grievous they may be, here and elsewhere there is clear evidence that he has practiced the corporal works of mercy—and without bragging about it. Nothing of the sort can be said for you.

You're joking I hope. ggreg hires foreign workers outside of Britain, puts down the working class bragging about how much money he has, brags about how global markets make him rich, etc. and he has corporal works of mercy?! What a bunch of crap, but then again libertarianism supports the business types like ggreg.

Quote

Only if your moral and intellectual universe should ever expand beyond the tips of your extended fingers will you see how shamefully you abuse whatever talents the Lord has entrusted you with.

Only when you get out of your liberal, capitalist and democratic dreamworld will you ever realise true sympathy for the working man and not come off as a man who knows the good life since he is on top and cannot know the common man.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #72 on:** December 13, 2013, 03:21:59 PM »

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

Just as important as finding work, and really, much more important, a young Catholic Man should find a Traditional Catholic wife. A job is a job is a job and unless you are particularly skilled, you will probably have a series of ordinary jobs throughout your life. However, a Traditional Catholic wife is a real gem and this is the most important thing a man should focus on.

Men do need to develop themselves and they must prepare themselves to be responsible for a wife and family.

Hmm it seems from what I've looked at many Traditional Catholic women are very feminist in their views i.e. liberal and Marxist. But everyone can just go ahead and call me another Tele on the forum. :wink:

I keep up hope that somewhere there's one girl out there who fully holds on to some semblance of traditional views and I don't have to go to Saudi Arabia (that would be distasteful to me anyway) to find her.

Thorn · « **Reply #73 on:** December 13, 2013, 03:27:11 PM »

Trad Guy, how about practicing on us & refrain from spouting off about Marxism, etc. for when you next talk to your grandparents? Practice makes perfect so concentrate on talking about what you're doing mentally, physically & spiritually to improve yourself. Better yet, take the focus off what you know or think you know about the world & talk about things your grandparents might like - music, food, movies, saints, travel, woodworking, gardening, - anything - to engage them in pleasant things this world has to offer. Try it for just a day. That's all - just a day.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #74 on:** December 13, 2013, 03:43:59 PM »

Quote from: Thorn

Trad Guy, how about practicing on us & refrain from spouting off about Marxism, etc. for when you next talk to your grandparents? Practice makes perfect so concentrate on talking about what you're doing mentally, physically & spiritually to improve yourself. Better yet, take the focus off what you know or think you know about the world & talk about things your grandparents might like - music, food, movies, saints, travel, woodworking, gardening, - anything - to engage them in pleasant things this world has to offer. Try it for just a day. That's all - just a day.

Ah but as Catholics we are supposed to be anti-Marxist and anti-liberal as well I might add. My grandparents watch vile Hollywood movies and listen to disgusting music so I wouldn't want to discuss that. :wink:

My grandparents also are not Catholic so they would have no interest in the Saints. The only thing I can really get them to agree with me on is being anti-Obama.

And I exercise every day to improve myself physically, I read books (right-wing of course) to help myself mentally, and I read the Bible, go to Saturday Confession, and Sunday Mass to improve spirutually.

Anyway I think you posted this in the wrong thread.