Author Topic: Trads raising feminist daughters  (Read 5596 times)

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Offline JezusDeKoning

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Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
« Reply #165 on: July 10, 2018, 10:24:05 AM »
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  • I think 13-18 is the MOST important age to protect them.
    I agree, but you can't shield and protect them forever... otherwise, you get those Katy Perry types who completely rebel and stuff. 
    There is a God, but there probably is no Pope Francis.

    Online Cantarella

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #166 on: July 10, 2018, 10:33:07 AM »
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  • I agree, but you can't shield and protect them forever... otherwise, you get those Katy Perry types who completely rebel and stuff.

    At the same time, I can think of many things a parent may actually do, in order to protect the virtue of his children. To think that you are powerless on this respect is a defeatist suggestion of the devil.

    There are many parents out there who "throw the towel" even before the fight.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #167 on: July 10, 2018, 10:47:20 AM »
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  • I honestly don’t see the good in completely sheltering children who are 13-18 or up. The only thing that does is give a sort of... alternative reality.

    In fact, one could argue, that this might be the time in which to do a controlled release.  At least during this age they are living at home.  So if they come into contact with various evils (heresies, errors, bad morals of others, etc.) ... you can help guide their decision-making and their approach to dealing with these things.  But if they're completely sheltered and then suddenly leave home at 18 only to see the world's depravity head-on, they've had little guided practice in terms of how to deal with such things.  So, for instance, my oldest daughter ran into an alleged Catholic who held, basically, that the Bible was just a bunch of stories and the miracles in the Bible are made up.  So she told me and my wife about this, and we helped her with the apologetics necessary to debunk that garbage.  She ended up convinced that the person was nothing more than a completely faithless bad-willed idiot.  But what if she had run into this later in life, after she had left home?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #168 on: July 10, 2018, 10:59:59 AM »
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  • I agree, but you can't shield and protect them forever... otherwise, you get those Katy Perry types who completely rebel and stuff.

    It's an incredibly difficult thing to navigate.  If you beat them down with an iron fist, then many do in fact rebound and rebel and go more crazy in the opposite direction than they would have otherwise.  I have made the decision to make some concessions because I sensed a brewing resentment and rebellion because they couldn't be like their friends (this especially from girls).  Girls are complete lemmings, and slaves to convention; if everyone is doing something, then they can't stand the thought of being considered an outcast, of being socially shunned, and being looked down on.  Boys are less susceptible to this kind of thing.  [And, this by the way, is why girls and women need the guidance of a good man.]  In any case, not to digress, but I made some concessions along the lines of their being able to listen to a bit of pop music and wear a light amount of makeup.  And lest you think that the battle is with "worldly" companions, the problem arose at a Traditional Catholic school, where their Traditional Catholic friends were "doing all these things".  There was even a teacher at the school who raved about how much she liked Katy Perry.  Now, I still have Katy Perry banned, but that's a side issue.  My point is that these bad influences were from Traditional Catholics.  So, it wasn't bad enough that the girls felt like outsiders to the world and to Catholics in general, but that they would have considered us more rigorist even than TRADITIONAL Catholics, and a resentment was starting up.  So it was a no-win situation.  But my prudential judgment was that they would have lashed back and gone wild in the other direction if I didn't let up a little.  It's like with alcohol.  I let my kids have a little.  That prevents some kind of unnatural fascination with it that college kids develop when they first leave home and get to drink (because it's no longer forbidden by their parents) ... and then they make idiots out of themselves with it.

    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #169 on: July 10, 2018, 11:20:09 AM »
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  • I think 13-18 is the MOST important age to protect them.
    You can’t send naive kids into the world, and hope for the best. Its just not practical... the kids I know who were most protected ended up being the worst human beings I know, and atheists to boot. 


    Online Cantarella

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #170 on: July 10, 2018, 11:45:23 AM »
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  • And there is the issue of example....

    Quote
    8. But parents are obliged to instruct their children in the practice of virtue, not only by words, but still more by example. If you give your children bad example, how can you expect that they will lead a good life? When a dissolute young man is corrected for a fault, he answers: Why do you censure me, when my father does worse. “The children will complain of an ungodly father, because for his sake they are in reproach. ”(Eccl. xli. 10.)


    And ignorance is not an excuse for not instructing the children well, for as St. Alphonsus says in his sermon:

    Quote
    Should a father or a mother say: I myself do not know these mysteries (of Faith), can such an excuse be admitted? that is, can one sin excuse another? If you are ignorant of these mysteries you are obliged to learn them, and afterwards teach them to your children.


    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline SusanneT

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #171 on: July 10, 2018, 04:43:07 PM »
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  • I don’t believe it is so much about ‘sheltering’ children, as they grow up and especially through their teens and beyond they need to be made aware of the sinful world in which we live. 

    But what we should ensure we do is to protect them from the risk of falling into sin, keep them from near occasions for sin and yes exercise parental authority. 

    Boys need to be prepared for independence and for their future role as the head of their family.  Girls need to be protected, supervised and chaperoned until marriage

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #172 on: July 10, 2018, 07:08:08 PM »
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  • You can’t send naive kids into the world, and hope for the best. Its just not practical... the kids I know who were most protected ended up being the worst human beings I know, and atheists to boot.
    It seems we have a different standard of protection. 


    Online Cantarella

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #173 on: July 11, 2018, 12:33:35 AM »
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  • If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #174 on: July 11, 2018, 10:53:09 AM »
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  • Boys need to be prepared for independence and for their future role as the head of their family.  Girls need to be protected, supervised and chaperoned until marriage

    Except that not all girls end up marrying.  So what happens to them then, when their parents pass away.  Do they go on welfare?


    Offline SusanneT

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #175 on: July 11, 2018, 04:45:15 PM »
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  • Except that not all girls end up marrying.  So what happens to them then, when their parents pass away.  Do they go on welfare?
    If older unmarried women are not in a religious vocation then perhaps the wider family can provide the leadership and protection needed when parents can no longer do so. Failing that the Church should take a responsible approach. 


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #176 on: July 11, 2018, 05:43:22 PM »
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  • An older, unmarried woman should obviously be burned at the stake, since she's a witch...



    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #177 on: July 11, 2018, 07:15:00 PM »
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  • If older unmarried women are not in a religious vocation then perhaps the wider family can provide the leadership and protection needed when parents can no longer do so. Failing that the Church should take a responsible approach.
    I've asked numerous priests about this.  With one exception, they agree.  But they all note that this does not happen in the reality of today's world.  Several suggest living with a group of like-minded older single women, or with a roommate.
    It sounds like a good solution, but having tried it from time to time, I've come to realize it generally doesn't work outside of a religious house with some type of hierarchy and commitment to remain.
    Twice I've been in situations with 3-5 single ladies.  As they moved out and on with their lives, I was left with the constant worry over replacing them so that I could pay the rent.  I've had four roommates, two for two years apiece before one moved out to get married, the other to take a job.  Of the others, one lasted six months before I had to hire a lawyer to evict her...let's just say she was involved in illegal activity.  The last was a wonderful, kind-hearted lady who passed away at age 33 from complications of diabetes.  
    But this was all long ago.  The only older singles I know are elderly living with adult children's families, in a nursing home, or male.  (No, the man is not free to marry, so no possibilities there!)  
    It seems I must make do without the protection and guidance of an earthly head.

    Or Pax can burn me at the stake?  A stake-burning might make for a really profitable fundraiser!  Of course, that'll make me a martyr and, well, poor Pax?  I just hope he'll be able to make a good confession...Maybe it's not such a good idea, eh?

    Offline poche

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #178 on: July 11, 2018, 10:52:38 PM »
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  • Except that not all girls end up marrying.  So what happens to them then, when their parents pass away.  Do they go on welfare?
    That is why they have to learn some way to make an honest living. 

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #179 on: July 11, 2018, 11:08:22 PM »
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  • If older unmarried women are not in a religious vocation then perhaps the wider family can provide the leadership and protection needed when parents can no longer do so. Failing that the Church should take a responsible approach.
    I am curious as just what you mean by "A responsible approach". It sounds to me like you are saying that a woman can never reach a state of maturity but must always remain in a state of fragility of body and mind.

     

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