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Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 08:22:43 AM

Title: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 08:22:43 AM
On the other thread,  Jaynek said Trads are "subtly influenced" by feminism.

I will say it is MUCH worse than this.

I see Trads raising feminist daughters.

Examples:

Science and university attendence emphasized by stay-at-home mothers.

Female graduates who came from homes with many children stating they "don't want kids. "


And the mothers viewing that as NORMAL.

If you spent the last 20 years in the home fulfilling God's female role raising your children and they reject motherhood, you have failed! 

Worse, if you think your daughter wanting to go be a scientist and not have kids is okay, YOU ARE A FEMINIST.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Vintagewife3 on July 03, 2018, 08:36:40 AM
I am not a feminist. I do know some women these days who just should not be mothers... That doesn’t make me a feminist. I’m acknowledging that most women have moved so far from their natural role they need to do some serious deep thinking before bringing a baby into their own problems.

My girls I try to read a lot about home making. I try to watch shows, and movies that always made me dream about being a wife/mother. I also read a ton about St. Rita, Blessed Mother, and any other wife/Saint. I also make them take a role is watching out for baby brother.... Poor guy has three mommies!
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 03, 2018, 09:09:13 AM
Yes. I have seen this too.  They homeschool and then send the girls to community college and wonder why the girls are rebelling at home.   I was confused.  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 09:25:13 AM
The VAST MAJORITY of Trads raise their girls in a stay-home mom setup with many siblings and a Catholic education.


If at the end of that your daughter rejects motherhood to work, you have FAILED.


And worse, if you think that is an "acceptible" outcome, YOU ARE A FEMINIST.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 03, 2018, 09:41:46 AM
If you spent the last 20 years in the home fulfilling God's female role raising your children and they reject motherhood, you have failed!
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I beg to differ.  
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Was it God's fault that Eve chose to listen to the serpent?
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We have a fallen nature and a free will.  There comes a point where the blame is no longer on the parents, but on the young adults themselves.
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Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 03, 2018, 09:43:09 AM
I’m acknowledging that most women have moved so far from their natural role they need to do some serious deep thinking before bringing a baby into their own problems.
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It is not their choice to make.  It is God's.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 03, 2018, 09:49:07 AM
The VAST MAJORITY of Trads raise their girls in a stay-home mom setup with many siblings and a Catholic education.


If at the end of that your daughter rejects motherhood to work, you have FAILED.


And worse, if you think that is an "acceptible" outcome, YOU ARE A FEMINIST.
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Sorry smedley.  I often agree with you, but here I flat out don't.
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Everyone has free will.  No matter how good and holy parents may be, a child can choose to stray. 
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Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 09:50:33 AM
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I beg to differ.  
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Was it God's fault that Eve chose to listen to the serpent?
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We have a fallen nature and a free will.  There comes a point where the blame is no longer on the parents, but on the young adults themselves.
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You have missed the point.
Yes a child has free will.
The problem is that the mothers are not "subtly influenced" they are so indoctrinated by the WORLD that they think it's OKAY.
It's not okay.
Raising more feminists is not okay.
You should be asking yourself why you are okay with your daughter growing up to be a barren worker bee.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 09:53:51 AM
I'm getting thumbs down from disgruntled women who don't admit their own feminism.


Thumbs down from women who think they have "succeeded" by raising a girl who disdains motherhood. Thinks they have "succeeded" by raising a girl who becomes a physicist. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 03, 2018, 09:57:13 AM
The suggestion that women might be better off not being a mother is a sure sign feminism is ingrained.  What is to become of a woman who seems "unfit" to be a mother?  She becomes worldly, and unless she takes some kind of vow of celibacy she will go on to contracept and/or abort, just to protect her place in the world. Trads should never advocate women in the workplace (except in necessity).  It's unnatural and contrary to wisdom in every way.  It is divisive for other women too, because their men have to endure the allure of women in the workplace.  It also risks salvation for the woman who is too selfish to overcome personal obstacles in order to be a good mother. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 03, 2018, 09:58:44 AM
You have missed the point.
Yes a child has free will.
The problem is that the mothers are not "subtly influenced" they are so indoctrinated by the WORLD that they think it's OKAY.
It's not okay.
Raising more feminists is not okay.
You should be asking yourself why you are okay with your daughter growing up to be a barren worker bee.

That is not what you said:
"If you spent the last 20 years in the home fulfilling God's female role raising your children and they reject motherhood, you have failed!"
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I do not believe traditional mothers INTEND to rear feminists.  I believe they don't know better and don't have a good leader for a husband.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 09:59:37 AM
What was the point of your sacrifice of years of motherhood if your children do not follow your example of it?

My girls are taught that motherhood is the highest "job."

They are not taught to go 
get an "important" job in the world.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 03, 2018, 10:00:51 AM
As a woman , I agree with smedley.  I grew up in novus ordo.  (My mother was poisoned by feminism.)  I was going down the feminist road).  

Young women these days are going to college and graduating as lesbian atheists.  

Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 10:03:00 AM
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That is not what you said:
"If you spent the last 20 years in the home fulfilling God's female role raising your children and they reject motherhood, you have failed!"
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I do not believe traditional mothers INTEND to rear feminists.  I believe they don't know better and don't have a good leader for a husband.
Oh, but they DO know better.
They CANNOT claim they "didn't know better, "
You CANNOT have sat in the pews of TRAD Churches for 20 years and say you "don't know" what God's role is for women.
It ain't a physicist. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 03, 2018, 10:03:16 AM
What was the point of your sacrifice of years of motherhood if your children do not follow your example of it?

My girls are taught that motherhood is the highest "job."

They are not taught to go
get an "important" job in the world.
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That is the goal of most traditional Catholic mothers, I believe.  It does not mean the child will accept the example or teachings.  Nor does it mean the mother has "failed".
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 03, 2018, 10:07:05 AM
Oh, but they DO know better.
They CANNOT claim they "didn't know better, "
You CANNOT have sat in the pews of TRAD Churches for 20 years and say you "don't know" what God's role is for women.
It ain't a physicist.
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True.  But not all traditional mothers have sat in the pews for 20 years.
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Traditional mothers also learn in the pews that the husband is the head of the household.  How is it that the mother has failed if the husband allows the daughter to stray while under his care?
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I still hold that most traditional mothers don't INTEND to rear feminists.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 10:09:01 AM
No, it is not the goal.

There are too many recent "Trad" girls being sent off to college to do "something highly important. "


And it is encouraged as though we are non-Catholic members of the world. 

We are to be a contradiction to the world. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 10:11:27 AM
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True.  But not all traditional mothers have sat in the pews for 20 years.
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Traditional mothers also learn in the pews that the husband is the head of the household.  How is it that the mother has failed if the husband allows the daughter to stray while under his care?
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I still hold that most traditional mothers don't INTEND to rear feminists.
I am speaking of mothers who HAVE sat in the pews for 20 years.
Mothers whose parents were the FIRST Trads.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 03, 2018, 10:16:58 AM
I am speaking of mothers who HAVE sat in the pews for 20 years.
Mothers whose parents were the FIRST Trads.
Sorry.  Not enough coffee yet...  
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I still hold that Traditional mothers also learn in the pews that the husband is the head of the household.  How is it that the mother has failed if the husband allows the daughter to stray while under his care?
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most traditional mothers don't INTEND to rear feminists, but is it their fault if they have done their best.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 03, 2018, 10:41:06 AM

Quote
If at the end of that your daughter rejects motherhood to work, you have FAILED. 
No, not necessarily.  I've known many good, non-feminist families whose children rebelled.  It's a sign of the times.  


Quote
You CANNOT have sat in the pews of TRAD Churches for 20 years and say you "don't know" what God's role is for women.
This is true.

The answer is that some women embrace feminism in spite of good nurturing.  Some embrace Traditionalism in spite of a feminist/modernist upbringing.  And there is the 'middle' where quasi-trads are feminized themselves and raise children who embrace feminism.  ...It's a war zone out there...
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 10:58:07 AM
Trad schools are encouraging college for girls.

To what end, I ask?

For what purpose? 

Waste $50-$100K on tuition, then she becomes a Mom?

Or worse, waste $100-200k so she becomes a lawyer/doctor and then contracepts while the 2 kids are raised in daycare so she can work?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Croix de Fer on July 03, 2018, 10:58:43 AM
Look at these male and female feminists talk about the ills of feminism, yet they manifest the infection themselves. What a sick joke. :laugh1:
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Matthew on July 03, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Smedly is on to something...as shocking and unexpected as it sounds, there are indeed bona-fide feminists in the midst of Traditional Catholic enclaves and chapels everywhere.

The World is all around us, and we shouldn't be too shocked if it picks off a few "victims" who fell for the siren song of its influence.

The World is crazy, but some people actually fall for the craziness. Heck, there are Trads who believe the official government propaganda/story of 9/11 for crying out loud! Trads aren't always the brightest bulb in the box.

Another point -- there's failing with one (or two) black sheep, and then there's failing with a majority or even 100% of your children. One or two children can just be black sheep/rebels, going against everything the parents taught or stood for. But if MOST or ALL children in a family give up the faith, become feminists, etc. then THE PARENTS WERE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. They sent them to public school, set a bad example, taught a bad example, allowed worldly influences in the home (TV, Internet, cell phones, bad company, etc.), failed to educate properly, failed to discipline properly, and/or other derelictions of duty.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 11:09:11 AM
Sorry.  Not enough coffee yet...  
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I still hold that Traditional mothers also learn in the pews that the husband is the head of the household.  How is it that the mother has failed if the husband allows the daughter to stray while under his care?
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most traditional mothers don't INTEND to rear feminists, but is it their fault if they have done their best.
If your daughters own pants and shorts snd are wearing them when they are not at Mass or their Trad school, then you are NOT doing your best.
You are raising feminist daughters and paying lip service to the example of Our Lady.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 03, 2018, 11:13:30 AM
No, not necessarily.  I've known many good, non-feminist families whose children rebelled.  It's a sign of the times.  

This is true.

The answer is that some women embrace feminism in spite of good nurturing.  Some embrace Traditionalism in spite of a feminist/modernist upbringing.  And there is the 'middle' where quasi-trads are feminized themselves and raise children who embrace feminism.  ...It's a war zone out there...
A sure fire way to get one's daughter to embrace feminism is to raise her thinking that there is something other than motherhood or the celibate life out there for her.  The only way to get the grace from God to destroy feminism is to raise daughters with modesty and true feminine integrity.  If she goes off the deep end, then that's on her.  However, not even trad mothers and fathers are bothering anymore and most have embraced feminism to one degree or another.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 11:15:38 AM
Smedly is on to something...as shocking and unexpected as it sounds, there are indeed bona-fide feminists in the midst of Traditional Catholic enclaves 
This topic is long overdue. 
Too many Trad mothers wearing pants all week, dressing their girls in shorts, and telling them to go to college to get a job.
All while showing up for Mass in a dress and veil on Sunday. 
Cardinal Siri's essay on women in man's clothing strikes at the heart of feminism.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 03, 2018, 11:20:59 AM
One thing that it is often overlooked is that a girl not only should aspire to be a good mother; but also a good wife first. She needs to learn how to build a meaningful, long-life relationship with the father of her children; and also, the other men in her life (father, sons, brothers). This knowledge does not come naturally, so it needs to be properly taught.

The least thing you want is your daughter to end up being a single mother. It is crucial therefore, that she learns how to discern the good men; marry one, and build a stable marriage with him.

The vocation of motherhood necessarily includes that of high - quality wifehood.  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Vintagewife3 on July 03, 2018, 11:22:09 AM
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It is not their choice to make.  It is God's.
I’m talking before marriage, before engaging in marriage activities. Not prevention during. If the women are behaving this way before, then they aren’t mature enough for marriage/babies.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 03, 2018, 11:22:46 AM
One thing that it is often overlooked is that a girl not only should aspire to be good mother; but also a good wife. She needs to learn how to build a meaningful, long-life relationship with the father of her children; and also, the other men of her life. This knowledge does not come naturally, so it needs to be taught.

The least thing you want is your daughter to end up being a single mother. It is crucial therefore, that she learns how to discern the good men; be able to marry one and build a stable marriage.

The vocation of motherhood necessarily includes that of high - quality wifehood.  ,
Here here. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 03, 2018, 11:26:49 AM
I’m talking before marriage, before engaging in marriage activities. Not prevention during. If the women are behaving this way before, then they aren’t mature enough for marriage/babies.
The women who aren't mature enough for marriage/babies are the ones who were not raised with a proper view of femininity, nor that phenomenal vocation exclusive to women.  But that doesn't mean they can't learn.  This has everything to do with Christ's missionary mandate and Catholics should always reflect these truths in their beliefs and conversation. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Seraphina on July 03, 2018, 11:29:18 AM
The suggestion that women might be better off not being a mother is a sure sign feminism is ingrained.  What is to become of a woman who seems "unfit" to be a mother?  She becomes worldly, and unless she takes some kind of vow of celibacy she will go on to contracept and/or abort, just to protect her place in the world. Trads should never advocate women in the workplace (except in necessity).  It's unnatural and contrary to wisdom in every way.  It is divisive for other women too, because their men have to endure the allure of women in the workplace.  It also risks salvation for the woman who is too selfish to overcome personal obstacles in order to be a good mother.
You make some rather harsh and rash judgments about women. I've never taken a vow of celibacy, have a university education, live on my own as single in the world and have maintained my purity.  I am now 60 years of age and have been on my own since age 18.  It's not how I expected my life to turn out, but by God's grace, here I am.  My main workplace has no men to be allured.  I work for a non-profit home, teaching special needs children, ages 5-8.  Dare I say men are not suited for this type of work?  In the distant past, one would find nuns doing such work.  The other reason there are no men is because the pay is too low to make a living wage. All of my work colleagues are either married, living with their parents. Unlike the nuns of old, I don't get to spend my nonworking time in community where other needs are met by others, cooking, food, shelter, clothing, mass, sacraments, social and recreational...To make ends meet, I moonlight by housecleanig, tutoring, mending, other jobs as I find.
I would greatly appreciate prayers rather than condemnations.  I am getting old and have very little provision should I have to quit working.  It's not because I wasted money, either.   
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Jaynek on July 03, 2018, 11:36:04 AM
Trad schools are encouraging college for girls.

To what end, I ask?

For what purpose?
My youngest daughter is going to a small Catholic college. (The older two are already married with children.) One purpose is for her to experience living in a Catholic sub-culture.  It is a place where she can wear modest dresses and feel like it is normal. It is also to increase her acquaintances among Catholic young adults to make it easier for her to meet a Catholic husband.

She is studying philosophy, not something career oriented.  Her education will help her if she has children when she homeschools them.  When we talk about her future, we keep in mind how her plans can work with being a wife and mother.

I expect that if she does get married she will end up with a good husband because she will compare the men she meets to her father.  She knows what a good husband and father looks like without even thinking about it.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 03, 2018, 11:39:43 AM
You make some rather harsh and rash judgments about women. I've never taken a vow of celibacy, have a university education, live on my own as single in the world and have maintained my purity.  I am now 60 years of age and have been on my own since age 18.  It's not how I expected my life to turn out, but by God's grace, here I am.  My main workplace has no men to be allured.  I work for a non-profit home, teaching special needs children, ages 5-8.  Dare I say men are not suited for this type of work?  In the distant past, one would find nuns doing such work.  The other reason there are no men is because the pay is too low to make a living wage. All of my work colleagues are either married, living with their parents. Unlike the nuns of old, I don't get to spend my nonworking time in community where other needs are met by others, cooking, food, shelter, clothing, mass, sacraments, social and recreational...To make ends meet, I moonlight by housecleanig, tutoring, mending, other jobs as I find.
I would greatly appreciate prayers rather than condemnations.  I am getting old and have very little provision should I have to quit working.  It's not because I wasted money, either.  
You are not to be condemned, but to be commended for your great work.  As I mentioned, necessity changes the rules sometimes.  You'd have to admit you are an anomaly.  Most women could not have taken the singles life to the level of nobility, so it really cannot come recommended or be prepared for except indirectly by a great respect for God and the true Faith.  Not because it can't be done, but because it can rarely be done properly.  You stand as a model for all men and women because you have taken all your distinct opportunities and turned your circuмstances into glory for God and credit to yourself.   
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Croix de Fer on July 03, 2018, 11:41:01 AM
 I work for a non-profit home, teaching special needs children, ages 5-8.  Dare I say men are not suited for this type of work?

Depends on the special needs of the children. Men are better at teaching perceptual-motor skills to children who are deficient in that area.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Vintagewife3 on July 03, 2018, 11:45:26 AM
The women who aren't mature enough for marriage/babies are the ones who were not raised with a proper view of femininity, nor that phenomenal vocation exclusive to women.  But that doesn't mean they can't learn.  This has everything to do with Christ's missionary mandate and Catholics should always reflect these truths in their beliefs and conversation.
Which is what I’m getting at. They need to learn before they take on such important roles. They have to also accept themselves for what exactly their sex is designed for. I’m not arguing. Or promoting any sort of feminism. A lady such as Described simply couldn’t be thrown into a situation of wife/mother without some intense personal reflection, and prayer.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 11:49:44 AM
You make some rather harsh and rash judgments about women. I've never taken a vow of celibacy, have a university education, live on my own as single in the world and have maintained my purity.  I am now 60 years of age and have been on my own since age 18.  It's not how I expected my life to turn out, but by God's grace, here I am.  My main workplace has no men to be allured.  I work for a non-profit home, teaching special needs children, ages 5-8.  Dare I say men are not suited for this type of work?  In the distant past, one would find nuns doing such work.  The other reason there are no men is because the pay is too low to make a living wage. All of my work colleagues are either married, living with their parents. Unlike the nuns of old, I don't get to spend my nonworking time in community where other needs are met by others, cooking, food, shelter, clothing, mass, sacraments, social and recreational...To make ends meet, I moonlight by housecleanig, tutoring, mending, other jobs as I find.
I would greatly appreciate prayers rather than condemnations.  I am getting old and have very little provision should I have to quit working.  It's not because I wasted money, either.  
You are the exception,  not the rule.
The problem is Trads accepting the world's ideas of what is good for the daughter.
They need to go back to God's plan fpr daughters.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 03, 2018, 11:49:53 AM
Quote
The suggestion that women might be better off not being a mother is a sure sign feminism is ingrained.

Yet, it is a fact of life that many women will never marry. Especially nowadays when the incentive for men to marry them is close to mmm ... zero! (After all, they are getting all the *benefits* without any commitment on their part; yet modern woman is too short sighted to see things for what they really are ::)).  


It is far better for those girls to remain single and celibate than become yet another "single mom".
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Seraphina on July 03, 2018, 11:51:40 AM
Depends on the special needs of the children. Men are better at teaching perceptual-motor skills to children who are deficient in that area.
Where do you live?  We have an OT position open for the 2018-2019 school year.  There have been a few male workers over the years, several excellent ones, with the boys ages 10-13, especially.  Unfortunately, these were young men who had to leave in order to get married or to pay off college loans and move out of Mom's basement!  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 03, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Which is what I’m getting at. They need to learn before they take on such important roles. They have to also accept themselves for what exactly their sex is designed for. I’m not arguing. Or promoting any sort of feminism. A lady such as discerned simply couldn’t be thrown into a situation of wife/mother without some intense personal reflection, and prayer.
I agree they should learn first.  But then, if they haven't learned, they also need to remain celibate, or if married, accept the children that come while they learn.  When someone says women should not be having kids, it is usually because they are advocating some sort of birth control.  That would be my only concern.  I can speak from experience: God sends kids to parents to straighten parents out.    
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 03, 2018, 11:53:13 AM
Yet, it is a fact of life that many women will never marry. Especially nowadays when the incentive for men to marry them is close to mmm ... zero! (After all, they are getting all the *benefits* without any commitment on their part; yet modern woman is too short sighted to see things for what they really are ::)).  


It is far better for those girls to remain single and celibate than become yet another "single mom".
Absolutely.  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 11:54:41 AM
My youngest daughter is going to a small Catholic college. (The older two are already married with children.) One purpose is for her to experience living in a Catholic sub-culture.  It is a place where she can wear modest dresses and feel like it is normal. It is also to increase her acquaintances among Catholic young adults to make it easier for her to meet a Catholic husband.

She is studying philosophy, not something career oriented.  Her education will help her if she has children when she homeschools them.  When we talk about her future, we keep in mind how her plans can work with being a wife and mother.

I expect that if she does get married she will end up with a good husband because she will compare the men she meets to her father.  She knows what a good husband and father looks like without even thinking about it.
Sounds like she is there to get her "MRS" degree which is fine.
Does she intend to work after becoming a mother?
Does she wear pants?
Are your other daughters/daughters-in-law working mothers?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Seraphina on July 03, 2018, 12:20:53 PM
You are the exception,  not the rule.
The problem is Trads accepting the world's ideas of what is good for the daughter.
They need to go back to God's plan fpr daughters.
True.  I don't fit the profile of having had trad parents and sitting 20 years in the pew of a trad chapel. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Matthew on July 03, 2018, 12:32:45 PM
There is the "single" pseudo-vocation for both men and women -- but it must be a life like Seraphina (above) described: full of self-sacrifice of some sort.

Mothers and fathers make umpteen sacrifices daily for their children.
The religious life? Need I even mention the sacrifices that nuns, brothers, and monks make for God, on a daily basis?
The priestly life? Ditto.

Strictly speaking, a vocation is a calling from God out of the world to a religious/priestly vocation. The other vocations are not vocations in the strict sense.

However, most of mankind is called to be married.

But for those who can't find a suitable spouse, perhaps God is calling you to a special (exception to the rule) single "vocation". Look for some way to sanctify your own soul, help souls, help the Church, practice self-sacrifice and mortification, and do something that would make sense to fill in this sentence: "God created me so that I could _____".  Serve God in the religious life? Yup. Help God in the work of creating and raising up souls for heaven? Yes. Be a middle manager for XYZ company? I doubt it. Help special needs children? There you go!

Single people have the ability/temptation to do what they want 24/7, march to the tune of their own drummer, and in general be completely selfish like no other class of person. That is why you need to start a company, group, apostolate, etc. based on your abilities, sex, and circuмstances. Thomas A. Nelson never married, but look at what he did with the years God gave him (he's still alive, BTW) -- Tan Books and Publishers!  A women probably wouldn't do that, but she could use her feminine abilities, especially patience and abilities with children, to help souls in some way. She could study apologetics and try to convert souls, help new converts to Tradition to feel welcome with her friendliness and good advice... she could make chapel veils, scapulars, distribute apologetics materials, promote the message of Fatima, promote Traditional Catholicism, the list is endless. Some apostolates would be better for young women, others would be better for older women (or widows). God has a plan and a place for everyone.

But they all have something in common: mortification and work. You can't just spend your days in your man cave (or in front of the TV eating bon-bons) and have fun, and expect Heaven at the end of it.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 03, 2018, 12:44:46 PM
There is nothing wrong with a girl deciding that marriage is not for her,  choosing a religious vocation, or one in the wider service of Our Lord and a commitment to lifelong purity. 

But for the majority who choose marriage, motherhood must always be seen as the nature fulfilment of God’s purpose of a woman’s life.

It is for mothers to teach their daughters that these vocations are the only ones open to a Godly woman and that both require modesty, chastity and sacrifice. 

A mother who teaches otherwise is a feminist. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Jaynek on July 03, 2018, 01:06:14 PM
Sounds like she is there to get her "MRS" degree which is fine.
Does she intend to work after becoming a mother?
Does she wear pants?
Are your other daughters/daughters-in-law working mothers?
She is considering becoming qualified as a piano teacher because that can be done part-time while raising children, if necessary to supplement the family income, or can be done full time if she does not marry.  She is already fairly advanced as a pianist so this is a realistic possibility for her.

Her college has a dress code, so I don't know what she will end up choosing when it is totally up to her. It will also depend on whether she marries a man with firm opinions on the subject.  I can't imagine her wearing pants if her husband objected.  Of the other daughters, one is a SAHM who is homeschooling, and the other works with her husband in their family business.  Their child is not yet school age.

But my older daughters had already left home before I rejected feminism and became a trad, so unfortunately they are seriously infected with feminism.  Because their father is such an outstanding example of manhood is not as bad as it might be, but it is still distressing.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 01:10:51 PM
There is nothing wrong with a girl deciding that marriage is not for her,  choosing a religious vocation, or one in the wider service of Our Lord and a commitment to lifelong purity.

But for the majority who choose marriage, motherhood must always be seen as the nature fulfilment of God’s purpose of a woman’s life.

It is for mothers to teach their daughters that these vocations are the only ones open to a Godly woman and that both require modesty, chastity and sacrifice.

A mother who teaches otherwise is a feminist.
Exactly. 
I'm not talking about Trads teaching about relgious vocations.
I'm talking about Trads ENCOURAGING college/job over motherhood, in contradiction to your Sunday sermons. And then worse, being proud that their daughter is "smart" and chose science/work. 
I'm talking about Trads wearing pants all week and letting their girls do this in contradiction to Sunday sermons and the sign on the chapel door.
Might as well toss their veils and go back to the Novus Ordo. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 03, 2018, 01:11:51 PM
What is up with girls night out among trad women?  It seems to be the trend.  Who is watching the children?   

Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 03, 2018, 01:12:48 PM
Quote
  I can't imagine her wearing pants if her husband objected.  
She should avoid men’s attire because THE CHURCH and OUR LORD objects to contra-natural clothes.  If women don’t recognize this fact, they need to.  Otherwise, her views on clothing are feminized.  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 01:24:06 PM
She should avoid men’s attire because THE CHURCH and OUR LORD objects to contra-natural clothes.  If women don’t recognize this fact, they need to.  Otherwise, her views on clothing are feminized.  
Feminized?
I think you meant "feminist. "
A woman is feminist if she doesn't know why she ought not wear pants.  And she's not listening on Sunday. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 01:27:49 PM
What is up with girls night out among trad women?  It seems to be the trend.  Who is watching the children?  
The husband is. 
Nothing wrong with that.
Wives also deserve a break from their work to have a cocktail with friends and talk.
We're Catholic,  not Baptist or Amish.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Vintagewife3 on July 03, 2018, 02:06:59 PM
What is up with girls night out among trad women?  It seems to be the trend.  Who is watching the children?  
My husband, their father. Because I deserve a break too. It’s also helpful for our marriage because I tend to get “touched out” by my kids. So, I need time to decompress for him. He understands because he gets the same way.
Happenby, I completely agree on remaining celibate, but stepping up to the plate if a baby comes along (which it most likely will if not being celibate). God may send children to straighten parents out, but these days parents don’t get the message. I’ve noticed some women just can’t wrap their heads around what the job actually is. I still am stating again I Absolutely am not promoting any form of birth control.  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Seraphina on July 03, 2018, 04:40:14 PM
What is up with girls night out among trad women?  It seems to be the trend.  Who is watching the children?  
Why does someone dislike a question?  
I can't answer your question because I've never heard of chapels having girls' night out.  Bars and nightclubs used to have ladies nights, but that was back in my early college days.  I didn't go because I wasn't involved with the collegiate social life.  Maybe the Catholic version is for women to eat out at a restaurant?   This must be in places where people are well off and or they have no children or they are grown.  My mother sometimes eats lunch at the senior center with two lady friends who are widows.  Dad doesn't care to go with them because he's not terribly interested in women's talk over soup and salad.  I see nothing amiss with it.  
If wives and mothers are regularly neglecting their husbands and children for a night out on the town, well, that's different, not the right thing to do!
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: LaramieHirsch on July 03, 2018, 04:51:21 PM

Quote
"Trads raising feminist daughters (https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/trads-raising-feminist-daughters/msg617299/#msg617299)"

Most American Catholics, including the Trads, fail and "buy what they're selling."  They're sell-outs most of the time.  It's the most comfortable thing to do.  As long as they get theirs, they don't mind.  Result: Their daughters move out with a boyfriend when they come of age.  This is what happens when a group capitulates.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 05:46:29 PM
Most American Catholics, including the Trads, fail and "buy what they're selling."  They're sell-outs most of the time.  It's the most comfortable thing to do.  As long as they get theirs, they don't mind.  Result: Their daughters move out with a boyfriend when they come of age.  This is what happens when a group capitulates.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 03, 2018, 07:11:17 PM
A sure fire way to get one's daughter to embrace feminism is to raise her thinking that there is something other than motherhood or the celibate life out there for her.  The only way to get the grace from God to destroy feminism is to raise daughters with modesty and true feminine integrity.  If she goes off the deep end, then that's on her.  However, not even trad mothers and fathers are bothering anymore and most have embraced feminism to one degree or another.
That is completely right. As a woman there can only be two vocations. A celibate life in the service of Christ or that of marriage and motherhood. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 03, 2018, 07:20:12 PM
That is completely right. As a woman there can only be two vocations. A celibate life in the service of Christ or that of marriage and motherhood.
No doubt some will disagree.  Interestingly, a girl who prepares to be a doctor or lawyer does upward of 15-20 years of schooling. Yet mothers promoting any kind of motherhood manage to have a couple of talks with their daughters at 12.  Then when the girl goes bad, they wonder what happened.  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 03, 2018, 07:24:53 PM
No doubt some will disagree.  Interestingly, a girl who prepares to be a doctor or lawyer does upward of 15-20 years of schooling. Yet mothers promoting any kind of motherhood manage to have a couple of talks with their daughters at 12.  Then when the girl goes bad, they wonder what happened.  
Why does any woman need to train as a lawyer ? A doctor yes - to treat women in modesty and with personal knowledge but a lawyer - why - how can that be Godly  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: jen51 on July 03, 2018, 08:01:49 PM
This subject comes up between my husband and I frequently, as we have 2 daughters and one on the way. We were just talking about it this morning, in fact.

A summary of what our conclusions are:
-If our daughters are unmarried and not in a convent, we will encourage them to stay under our roof until they have either a convent or a husband from whom they will receive their covering from. There is plenty of work to do around the homestead, and jobs that don't require having to work in the public arena around men. Tutoring, music lessons, seemstress work, etc. All of these can be done within the home. 

-University will not be encouraged or funded by us. If they do wish for more than a highschool education, let it be of a useful sort to help her in the education of her children, or to learn some sort of trade that could bring in more income if the family fell on dire financial times. They don't need to go to a university, and most generally not even a small community college campus to get this kind of training. It can be online or apprenticing, etc.

One thing that we've discussed, that does leave us a bit perplexed, is women going to college to be in the health profession. I know how thankful I am that there are women doctors who I can go to for womens health issues and for delivering babies. My husband despises male OBGYN's, and I would rather risk my health than to willingly go to one. Yet at the same time, we would highly discourage our daughters for ever thinking of entering the work force for that purpose. Can we discuss this topic here, or should it be another thread?

Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 03, 2018, 08:06:57 PM
This subject comes up between my husband and I frequently, as we have 2 daughters and one on the way. We were just talking about it this morning, in fact.

A summary of what our conclusions are:
-If our daughters are unmarried and not in a convent, we will encourage them to stay under our roof until they have either a convent or a husband from whom they will receive their covering from. There is plenty of work to do around the homestead, and jobs that don't require having to work in the public arena around men. Tutoring, music lessons, seemstress work, etc.

-University will not be encouraged or funded by us. If they do wish for more than a highschool education, let it be of a useful sort to help her in the education of her children, or to learn some sort of trade that could bring in more income if the family fell on dire financial times. They don't need to go to a university, and most generally not even a small community college campus to get this kind of training. It can be online or apprenticing, etc.

One thing that we've discussed, that does leave us a bit perplexed, is women going to college to be in the health profession. I know how thankful I am that there are women doctors who I can go to for womens health issues and for delivering babies. My husband despises male OBGYN's, and I would rather risk my health than to willingly go to one. Yet at the same time, we would highly discourage our daughters for ever thinking of entering the work force for that purpose. Can we discuss this topic here, or should it be another thread?
I / we also struggle with this point.  My husband will not allow me to see a male doctor but we both disagree with female higher education except in medicine - a dilemma I agree. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 03, 2018, 08:13:53 PM

Quote
If our daughters are unmarried and not in a convent, we will encourage them to stay under our roof until they have either a convent or a husband from whom they will receive their covering from.
Should be a requirement, not just encouragement.  If she disagrees, then shes cut from the will and no marriage reception help.  It's that important to her salvation.


Quote
One thing that we've discussed, that does leave us a bit perplexed, is women going to college to be in the health profession. I know how thankful I am that there are women doctors who I can go to for womens health issues and for delivering babies. My husband despises male OBGYN's, and I would rather risk my health than to willingly go to one. Yet at the same time, we would highly discourage our daughters for ever thinking of entering the work force for that purpose. Can we discuss this topic here, or should it be another thread?
Let her be a midwife.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Vintagewife3 on July 03, 2018, 08:16:50 PM
I / we also struggle with this point.  My husband will not allow me to see a male doctor but we both disagree with female higher education except in medicine - a dilemma I agree.
I actually had the uncomfortable situation with a male obgyn.... I do try to remember that before women became doctors. We only had Male doctors. So, a lot of women had this uncomfortable moment.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 03, 2018, 08:18:28 PM
Go to a midwife for your annual checkup. Cheaper too.

Good on you for keeping your girls close.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: jen51 on July 03, 2018, 08:20:30 PM
Should be a requirement, not just encouragement.  If she disagrees, then shes cut from the will and no marriage reception help.  It's that important to her salvation.

Well, yeah, it's a given that we'd forbid her from living with a boyfriend/fiancee. So are you saying to cut her from the will if she moves out of our house at say, the age of 30 with no prospective husband?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 03, 2018, 08:40:16 PM
Let her be a midwife.
.
Midwives can't deal with all women's health issues.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 03, 2018, 10:22:36 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34823279_488535738256021_2579361241180930048_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=40fba1849867edf187f4e8c7b87126d5&oe=5BE6E03E)

Mothers do good in teaching their daughters to stay away from the lies of Feminism for their own good and the good of everyone. In order to do so though, they themselves need to be aware of how the disease operates.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 03, 2018, 11:05:25 PM

Quote
Well, yeah, it's a given that we'd forbid her from living with a boyfriend/fiancee. So are you saying to cut her from the will if she moves out of our house at say, the age of 30 with no prospective husband?
She shouldn’t be allowed to move out and live with a girlfriend, boyfriend, or alone.  Maybe 30 is a good cutoff age?  I don’t know, but sounds good.  Obviously this is all theoretical, assuming the parents have room where she can stay.  I’m just preaching the ideal.  Circuмstances dictate differences.  The point is to keep your daughter away from bad influences until they are mentally mature, which in our day is probably not til 30 (at best). 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 04, 2018, 02:51:22 AM
She shouldn’t be allowed to move out and live with a girlfriend, boyfriend, or alone.  Maybe 30 is a good cutoff age?  I don’t know, but sounds good.  Obviously this is all theoretical, assuming the parents have room where she can stay.  I’m just preaching the ideal.  Circuмstances dictate differences.  The point is to keep your daughter away from bad influences until they are mentally mature, which in our day is probably not til 30 (at best).
In principle I agree but I don’t think it is so much age as circuмstance.  God did not intend women of any age to be without protection and guidance. A daughter should generally remain under her family until she either marries or joins a religious order.  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 04, 2018, 08:55:25 AM
Smedley, CDF is like any other arrogant, entitled, mixed-up teenager today.  Have pity on him and pray he grows up soon so he can do God's will for his life.
.
A quiet PM to the moderator is all that is needed.  Matthew will do the rest, as he sees fit.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 04, 2018, 09:01:00 AM
The other issue which hasn't been mentioned isthat when a woman works she is taking a job that cpcould be held by man.

She is therefore preventing a man from supporting a family and contributing to the subversion of society. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 04, 2018, 09:07:36 AM
The other issue which hasn't been mentioned isthat when a woman works she is taking a job that cpcould be held by man.

She is therefore preventing a man from supporting a family and contributing to the subversion of society.
Not necessarily.
If the man is lazy and won't bring in enough income to support the family, the wife has to do it.  Or when husband and wife marry, the woman has a job with benefits and the man without.  The man wants the woman to continue working so the family can have benefits.  I have seen these happen more times than I care to count.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 04, 2018, 09:17:01 AM
No, it is not the goal.

There are too many recent "Trad" girls being sent off to college to do "something highly important. "


And it is encouraged as though we are non-Catholic members of the world.

We are to be a contradiction to the world.

I'm not sure it's that rather than the idea that there's a shortage of Traditional Catholic men (much less good Traditional Catholic men) out there, and so the idea is for the women to be able to support themselves if they can't find a husband.  Now, I agree that this is not the ideal, but it's just people trying to deal with the reality of modern society.  In your typical Traditional chapel, you'll find a handful of eligible single men and a handful of eligible single women.  And so their options/choices are very limited.  I've seen "forced" marriages along these lines, and often people end up together -- due to the shortage -- who probably should not have been together due to differences in temperament and other natural incompatibilities.  It's not enough that people have the same faith for them to have a happy marriage, since nature also plays a part.  Similarly, there are artificial constraints with regard to religious vocations.  In the glory days of the Church, a person had dozens and dozens of religious orders with different spirituality and philosophy, so that it was much more likely that someone could find a path that suited his nature.  That's why the Church has allowed and even promoted so much variety.  One size doesn't fit all.  Similarly with marriage, back in the day, in your busy parish with hundreds and even thousands of families, the likelihood of finding someone who's compatible greatly increase.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 04, 2018, 09:24:09 AM
So then women go to college to support themselves, and in becoming somewhat independent that way, naturally can develop certain feminist attitudes.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 04, 2018, 09:29:24 AM
I / we also struggle with this point.  My husband will not allow me to see a male doctor but we both disagree with female higher education except in medicine - a dilemma I agree.

We tried sticking with female ob/gyns but every one turned out to be incompetent.  Serious errors were made that could have endangered the babies.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 04, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
Are you trying to say you're a homo?  

It's sure starting to come across that way.   :)
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 04, 2018, 09:41:34 AM
We tried sticking with female ob/gyns but every one turned out to be incompetent.  Serious errors were made that could have endangered the babies.
.
You are correct.  I nearly died due to a female OB who was on call at the ER.
.
My brother went through medical school and he said all the women and blacks got special treatment.  They were allowed to repeat exams in order to pass.  This was at UCLA a long time ago, so I don't know if it is better or worse now.  I don't know if other schools do the same, but I do know universities graduate minorities who can't read or write...
.
As a general rule we try to stick with white male doctors, although i will admit our general practice family doctor is an older female, only because she is not arrogant, not a feminist, knows her limitations, supports natural remedies, and works with us.  My husband has a male doctor.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 04, 2018, 09:46:57 AM
Oh, yeah, you're mad because I called out your weight struggles, but you refuse to abstain from the oils, fats and excess dead flesh.

Not, I'm simply calling you out for being an immature fool.  You've never seen me.  Evidently the lack of healthy fats and oils in your diet have caused mental and emotional disabilities ... which you have manifested for all to see.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 04, 2018, 09:48:44 AM
Nah, brah.

You're saying that because you're mad at me for calling out your heresy & idiocy in saying "God is not a Catholic God", and for destroying your illogical posit that even righteous men must be forced to provide material support for their harlot wives who "divorce" them. You simply couldn't come up with a good counter to my analogy of Lucifer revolting in Heaven, but God wasn't accountable or to blame for it. You tried semantic slithery, but it failed, too.

In both cases you mention above, I was simply making logical distinctions, something that's foreign to you.  Distinctions are not semantics.  You might want to spend less time in the gym and more time educating yourself.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Seraphina on July 05, 2018, 12:46:47 AM
In principle I agree but I don’t think it is so much age as circuмstance.  God did not intend women of any age to be without protection and guidance. A daughter should generally remain under her family until she either marries or joins a religious order.  
In an ideal world, yes. Our Lord and Our Lady are my protection and guidance. But when it comes down to practical application in this life, I have to protect and guide myself.  If that makes me a feminist, so be it.  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on July 05, 2018, 02:13:38 AM
Many a Girls' night ( or boys)night out at a restaurant or bar along with alcohol ended with divorce.  

Going out with husband is one thing.  

( I remember girls night out.  It was the married ones who were messing around. ).  And most get together and complain about their husbands and children.  



Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 05, 2018, 09:37:03 AM
They must not have been Trad Catholics. I've never heard of Trad Catholics "messing around."

I've also only heard of one divorce in the past 20 years amongst my Trad peers.

I've also never heard my wife say anyone complains aboit their husbands.


I'm  pretty sure the ladies here will disagree with your assertion. 

The Trad wives I've known are a hardworking, responsible bunch who deserve an evening off. Why you would suggest that they act like worldly working women seems odd to me. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 05, 2018, 09:40:57 AM
In an ideal world, yes. Our Lord and Our Lady are my protection and guidance. But when it comes down to practical application in this life, I have to protect and guide myself.  If that makes me a feminist, so be it.  
No one objects to a single woman taking care of herself, if she has no responsible parent or  husband to do so.
However, no Trad Catholic woman worth her salt proudly calls herself "feminist."
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Vintagewife3 on July 05, 2018, 10:12:29 AM
They must not have been Trad Catholics. I've never heard of Trad Catholics "messing around."

I've also only heard of one divorce in the past 20 years amongst my Trad peers.

I've also never heard my wife say anyone complains aboit their husbands.


I'm  pretty sure the ladies here will disagree with your assertion.

The Trad wives I've known are a hardworking, responsible bunch who deserve an evening off. Why you would suggest that they act like worldly working women seems odd to me.
I have never gone out to complain about my kids or husband. That is just me personally, but i will say my mom tribe will talk about what frustrates us. We do it in a safe environment where no one mentions divorce, what we can do to get back at them, only positive encouragement. You need supportive friends to sound things off of sometimes. Kids are frustrating, and to be honest I don’t want to sit there talking my husbands ear off about tiny things. That’s what mom friends are for.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 05, 2018, 10:16:00 AM
No one objects to a single woman taking care of herself, if she has no responsible parent or  husband to do so.
However, no Trad Catholic woman worth her salt proudly calls herself "feminist."
Nor do good Trad Catholics raise their daughters to go to college to become worldly professionals while considering themselves anti-feminism.   Colleges are cesspools of immorality and the temptation to carry on with a career that almost demands the use of contraceptives is a given.  Some women make it through, but the vast majority fall in line.  Encouraging one's daughter to the near occasion of sin is wrong.  With short term trade schools myriad, there is little reason to even consider college for a Catholic girl.  "Getting ahead" is a bad philosophy parents visit on their kids these days.  Many do not get ahead anyway; they become indebted to the system as they lose their morals.     
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 05, 2018, 10:58:06 AM
Nor do good Trad Catholics raise their daughters to go to college to become worldly professionals while considering themselves anti-feminism.   Colleges are cesspools of immorality and the temptation to carry on with a career that almost demands the use of contraceptives is a given.  Some women make it through, but the vast majority fall in line.  Encouraging one's daughter to the near occasion of sin is wrong.  With short term trade schools myriad, there is little reason to even consider college for a Catholic girl.  "Getting ahead" is a bad philosophy parents visit on their kids these days.  Many do not get ahead anyway; they become indebted to the system as they lose their morals.    
That this would get a thumbs down shows feminists lurking here.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 05, 2018, 11:56:18 AM
Lots of them.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on July 05, 2018, 12:42:31 PM
Worse, if you think your daughter wanting to go be a scientist and not have kids is okay, YOU ARE A FEMINIST.
If you think all women are called to biological motherhood, you're Lutheran.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: jen51 on July 05, 2018, 12:47:35 PM
Nor do good Trad Catholics raise their daughters to go to college to become worldly professionals while considering themselves anti-feminism.   Colleges are cesspools of immorality and the temptation to carry on with a career that almost demands the use of contraceptives is a given.  Some women make it through, but the vast majority fall in line.  Encouraging one's daughter to the near occasion of sin is wrong.  With short term trade schools myriad, there is little reason to even consider college for a Catholic girl.  "Getting ahead" is a bad philosophy parents visit on their kids these days.  Many do not get ahead anyway; they become indebted to the system as they lose their morals.    
I'm not sure why this would be downvoted. It is spot on. I think there are many mothers here who are my age that could personally attest to this. I went to college before converting and somehow escaped the debauchery, but my head was pumped full of all sorts of progressive, liberal ideas. I think women are particularly vulnerable to being gullible in these types of environments. Young, single women just out of highschool still need the protection of their fathers at home, or a husband and children to devote themselves to. Or a convent.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Jaynek on July 05, 2018, 12:50:18 PM
I'm not sure why this would be downvoted. It is spot on. I think there are many mothers here who are my age that could personally attest to this. I went to college before converting and somehow escaped the debauchery, but my head was pumped full of all sorts of progressive, liberal ideas. I think women are particularly vulnerable to being gullible in these types of environments. Young, single women just out of highschool still need the protection of their fathers at home, or a husband and children to devote themselves to. Or a convent.
Yes, this is my experience of university too.  It was very bad for me spiritually.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Meg on July 05, 2018, 01:01:26 PM
If you think all women are called to biological motherhood, you're Lutheran.

I have been wondering about this as well. Surely not all women are called to motherhood. The Church allows for women to have a religious vocation, but do you happen to know if the Church allows for something in-between motherhood and being a religious?

I suppose a young woman could live with her parents and maybe start her own business or something like that, if she's not called in either direction. 

My mother's side of the family a couple of generations back were Puritans since the original pilgrims at Plymouth, MA. They definitely believed that all women were called to be married. The Mormons, for the most part, do too.
Title: virginity a vocation
Post by: Geremia on July 05, 2018, 01:10:54 PM
do you happen to know if the Church allows for something in-between motherhood and being a religious?
Yes, virginity is a vocation (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/31311/31311-h/31311-h.htm#5).

Today, a virgin can become a consecrated virgin as well, by making a public vow of virginity:
In 1927 the Holy See forbade public vows of virginity apart from entering a religious institute (AAS 19 (1927) (http://www.vatican.va/archive/aas/docuмents/AAS-19-1927-ocr.pdf) 138), but the '83 Code reinstated it (Can. 604 (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P1Y.HTM) on the "order of virgins"); the privilege was granted in other eras of Church history, too.
cf. The Mystery of Love for the Single (https://isidore.co/calibre/#panel=book_details&book_id=5886) by Fr. Unger, O.F.M. Cap. (1958) ch. 5 and this blog by a consecrated virgin (https://sponsa-christi.blogspot.com/).
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Jaynek on July 05, 2018, 01:15:57 PM
I have been wondering about this as well. Surely not all women are called to motherhood. 
Obviously not all women are called to biological motherhood since some married women, through no fault of their own, are infertile.  All women, however, are called to spiritual motherhood.  There should be an outlet for her nurturing instincts in every woman's life, no matter what her state of life.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Jaynek on July 05, 2018, 01:23:03 PM
If you think all women are called to biological motherhood, you're Lutheran.
Smedley neither said nor implied that all women are called to biological motherhood.

He said:
Worse, if you think your daughter wanting to go be a scientist and not have kids is okay, YOU ARE A FEMINIST.

It is clear enough from all his posts on the topic that there is nothing unCatholic in his views on women.
Title: Re: virginity a vocation
Post by: Meg on July 05, 2018, 01:31:49 PM
Yes, virginity is a vocation (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/31311/31311-h/31311-h.htm#5).

Today, a virgin can become a consecrated virgin as well, by making a public vow of virginity:
In 1927 the Holy See forbade public vows of virginity apart from entering a religious institute (AAS 19 (1927) (http://www.vatican.va/archive/aas/docuмents/AAS-19-1927-ocr.pdf) 138), but the '83 Code reinstated it (Can. 604 (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P1Y.HTM) on the "order of virgins"); the privilege was granted in other eras of Church history, too.
cf. The Mystery of Love for the Single (https://isidore.co/calibre/#panel=book_details&book_id=5886) by Fr. Unger, O.F.M. Cap. (1958) ch. 5 and this blog by a consecrated virgin (https://sponsa-christi.blogspot.com/).

Thanks for the above info. Very informative. I wonder why the Holy See forbade public vows of virginity apart from a religious institute in 1927. Maybe there were a few problems with women in those days making public vows.

The blog you linked to shows how the "order of virgins" works under the new code. Of course the consecration must be done by the local diocesan bishop, which would pose a problem for trads, but I think that having this option for women in the conciliar church is a good one. Trads, perhaps, could join a third order?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on July 05, 2018, 01:44:45 PM
Smedley neither said nor implied that all women are called to biological motherhood.
He said there is something wrong with a woman not desiring biological children.
Also, is there any opposition between being a scientist and being a spiritual mother? There have been many nun scientists and mathematicians throughout Church history.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: jen51 on July 05, 2018, 01:57:03 PM
Yes, this is my experience of university too.  It was very bad for me spiritually.
Even when I had sincerely converted, I held on to many principles that I was indoctrinated with in college- both spiritual and political. Not because i was trying to be obstinate, but because I really didn't know any better. I was very gullible.  One would be a fool to think that they could brush all of that off right away just because they converted, or just because they are a cradle Catholic. There is SO MUCH to undo, to learn, and to practice. I think it will take takes years, if not a lifetime. I am so thankful for my husbands guidance in spiritual and theological matters.

Title: Re: virginity a vocation
Post by: Geremia on July 05, 2018, 02:00:25 PM
Thanks for the above info. Very informative. I wonder why the Holy See forbade public vows of virginity apart from a religious institute in 1927.
No explanation was given, as it was a response to a dubia:
Quote
« An expediat concedere facultatem dandi benedictionem et consecrationem Virginum mulieribus in saeculo viventibus »
responderunt: « Negative et nihil innovetur ».

« Whether it is expedient [for the pope] to give [bishops] the faculty to bless and consecrate virgins living in the world »
they [the fathers of the Sacred Congregation of Religious who voted] responded: « Negative and no changes »
It seems it was because nonnulli locorum Antistites petiissent facultatem [several bishops in various places requested the faculty]; viz., it seems they were getting too many requests that they had to put a temporary hold on it.

See also, from the Pontificale Romanum:
De Benedictione et Consecratione Virginum (http://www.liturgialatina.org/pontificale/037.htm)
(The Liturgy of the Consecration of Virgins according to the Roman Pontifical (https://archive.org/stream/ChristInHisConsecratedVirginsTheMarriageOfTheLambByLudwigMunster#page/n129/mode/2up))
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Jaynek on July 05, 2018, 02:01:37 PM
He said there is something wrong with a woman not desiring biological children.
Earlier in the thread he said, 
I'm not talking about Trads teaching about relgious vocations.
I'm talking about Trads ENCOURAGING college/job over motherhood...
He was obviously talking about the majority of women, i.e. those who do not have religious vocations.  When such women want to avoid motherhood that is something wrong and almost certainly a sign of feminist influence, just as he says.

It was unreasonable to call him a Lutheran.

Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 05, 2018, 02:04:11 PM
Interesting rules for female teachers in 1914. 

Notice the importance of modesty and chastity.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36650873_2005016196479585_4840341504511705088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=57baad62a7ddd6d0e71edf15c816fb8e&oe=5BE4C7C1)
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Jaynek on July 05, 2018, 02:08:07 PM
Even when I had sincerely converted, I held on to many principles that I was indoctrinated with in college- both spiritual and political. Not because i was trying to be obstinate, but because I really didn't know any better. I was very gullible.  One would be a fool to think that they could brush all of that off right away just because they converted, or just because they are a cradle Catholic. There is SO MUCH to undo, to learn, and to practice. I think it will take takes years, if not a lifetime. I am so thankful for my husbands guidance in spiritual and theological matters.
:applause:
Yes, that's it exactly.  It is extremely difficult to uproot feminism when it invades our souls.  It is imprudent to the point of insanity to deliberately expose oneself to it, if there are any other alternatives.

I agree that the love and guidance of a good man is probably the most effective cure.  Any of us blessed with such a husband should be thanking God daily for His grace and mercy.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 05, 2018, 02:19:11 PM
He said there is something wrong with a woman not desiring biological children.
Also, is there any opposition between being a scientist and being a spiritual mother? There have been many nun scientists and mathematicians throughout Church history.
There are certainly Catholic women who go on to become scientists and mathematicians and spiritual motherhood for them would be desirable.  What happens with most women who go down the career path is that they struggle with the notion of contraception or limiting children for the sake of their career.  Or worse, sending their children off to a babysitter in order to maintain their career.  If a woman is dedicated to remaining single or taking vows, she could certainly attempt a career and do well, even spiritually, given her decision is a prayerful one.  A Catholic woman should understand what she's getting herself into before she takes any path.  And sadly, many haven't a clue because their parents dropped the ball when it came to educating them.  It seems to me that a Catholic school for young women would be the ideal.  Schooling girls like boys leads to a lot of dead ends for the girl who finds herself a fish out of water no matter what she chooses to do. Teaching Catholic girls how to raise children, run a home, develop a talent, balance a budget, change a toilet, farm animals and food, be a good wife and mother...was a dream of mine, but with the size family I have, my dream probably won't be realized for others, just for my own girls.       
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Meg on July 05, 2018, 02:23:11 PM
Interesting rules for female teachers in 1914.

Notice the importance of modesty and chastity.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36650873_2005016196479585_4840341504511705088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=57baad62a7ddd6d0e71edf15c816fb8e&oe=5BE4C7C1)


Those are excellent rules. Especially the ones for modesty. They seem designed mainly to not cause scandal, or allow the teacher to fall into sin, in which case they are quite prudent. I can imagine what teachers nowadays would think of them. It would seem that ice cream parlors in those days were a bit of a problem.  :)

Title: Re: virginity a vocation
Post by: Geremia on July 05, 2018, 02:34:12 PM
Trads, perhaps, could join a third order?
Third orders don't take vows, let alone vows of perfect continence/virginity.

Traditional bishops have certainly performed the De Benedictione et Consecratione Virginum in recent times, as nuns can become consecrated virgins, too.

Ask a bishop.
Title: Re: virginity a vocation
Post by: Meg on July 05, 2018, 02:49:35 PM
Third orders don't take vows, let alone vows of perfect continence/virginity.

Traditional bishops have certainly performed the De Benedictione et Consecratione Virginum in recent times, as nuns can become consecrated virgins, too.

Ask a bishop.

Well, I was thinking of various options for a young woman who does not feel a calling either to marry or to the religious life. The options don't necessarily have to include vows. Hypothetically, she could just live at home with a family member. That's probably what's sometimes done in trad families, I suppose.
I don't think that women should live on their own, especially young women. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 05, 2018, 03:24:07 PM
This thread is not about rare exceptions.

This thread is not about nuns.


This thread is about the disconnect between the faith and what it teaches as the model for society, and the faithful who are not following the model.



Feminism is a deadly cancer. It's model for society has DESTROYED society. 

Perhaps the priests need to preach about the danger of feminism more often because it seems most of the women here want to talk about exceptions, rather than address the problem. 

It is not natural for a girl to be raised in the faith and then reject the model of the Holy Family to become a "scientist." That's not Lutheran, it just goes against NATURE for the VAST MAJORITY of women.

Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 05, 2018, 03:28:59 PM
Earlier in the thread he said, He was obviously talking about the majority of women, i.e. those who do not have religious vocations.  When such women want to avoid motherhood that is something wrong and almost certainly a sign of feminist influence, just as he says.

It was unreasonable to call him a Lutheran.
Thank you,  Jaynek! 
On this we agree...
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 05, 2018, 03:33:40 PM
Interesting rules for female teachers in 1914.

Notice the importance of modesty and chastity.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36650873_2005016196479585_4840341504511705088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=57baad62a7ddd6d0e71edf15c816fb8e&oe=5BE4C7C1)
Fantastic!
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 05, 2018, 03:45:19 PM
Skirts reaching close to the ankles...just like St Padre Pio wanted, but even he was challeged in the 60s.  How far removed are we from true, catholic modesty!!
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 05, 2018, 04:29:13 PM
Fantastic!

Notice that they were not allowed to marry during their contract.

I think it was because it was a given that once a woman marry, she should not work outside the home.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on July 05, 2018, 04:48:45 PM
This thread is about the disconnect between the faith and what it teaches as the model for society, and the faithful who are not following the model.
What is "the model"? Could you be more specific?

"The model" of feminism is simply unchastity. Could this thread be titled "Trads raising unchaste daughters"? Is that what you're trying say?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on July 05, 2018, 05:00:05 PM
Earlier in the thread he said, He was obviously talking about the majority of women, i.e. those who do not have religious vocations.  When such women want to avoid motherhood that is something wrong and almost certainly a sign of feminist influence, just as he says.
It could be a sign they have a religious vocation.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on July 05, 2018, 05:03:46 PM
once a woman marry, she should not work outside the home.
Why should a wife not work outside the home?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Jaynek on July 05, 2018, 05:17:51 PM
Thank you,  Jaynek!
On this we agree...
A month ago I wouldn't have imagined that I would be regularly upvoting your posts.   :cheers:
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 05, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
Why should a wife not work outside the home?
Are you kidding? ?
I'm not letting my kids be raised by daycare workers so my wife can work!
Are you crazy?  Children belong with their mothers. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 05, 2018, 05:46:06 PM
Are you kidding? ?
I'm not letting my kids be raised by daycare workers so my wife can work!
Are you crazy?  Children belong with their mothers.
And mothers with their children. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 05, 2018, 05:49:29 PM
Why should a wife not work outside the home?
If the couple has no children, it may be acceptable at first as the wife winds down in the outside world and moves to a greater vocation.  However, the chastity issue exists in that case.  Why put something as valuable as a marriage on the line?  Once a woman has children, the division of time she gives to time away from the kids is counter intuitive to the marriage and raising of the kids.  Why would a woman work outside the home?   Any monetary benefit becomes a negative in the bigger picture.  Depending on God for the family's needs is a modern day challenge but the benefits for permitting God to make it all work brings unimaginable grace.   
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 05, 2018, 05:57:22 PM
Are you kidding? ?
I'm not letting my kids be raised by daycare workers so my wife can work!
Are you crazy?  Children belong with their mothers.
Why don't all men talk this way?  People have become money grabbers, sacrificing their children on the altar of personal gain. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 05, 2018, 06:09:27 PM
I completely agree. I stayed clear of most of the sin which was forced upon me at college but it was more by chance than judgement and I don’t want my daughter to go through the same risks. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 05, 2018, 06:16:34 PM
Why should a wife not work outside the home?

Because the Church teaches so and the Church knows best.

I have posted several Papal teachings in this regard in the other thread. The realm of woman (most especially if she is a wife and a mother), is home.

Contrary to modern and feminist belief, it is physically impossible to be in two places at the same time. How is a woman supposed to make home and tend the children, if she is outside?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 05, 2018, 06:57:38 PM
Feminists think house and family isn't enough?  Why would a woman take on her responsibilities, then take on the man's also?  Go to work, Sir, I'm not doing your work too, I got the kids and the house.  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 05, 2018, 07:07:05 PM
A month ago I wouldn't have imagined that I would be regularly upvoting your posts.   :cheers:
Who would have thought?
:cheers:
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: jen51 on July 05, 2018, 07:25:07 PM
Because the Church teaches so and the Church knows best.

I have posted several Papal teachings in this regard in the other thread. The realm of woman (most especially if she is a wife and a mother), is home.

Contrary to modern and feminist belief, it is physically impossible to be in two places at the same time. How is a woman supposed to make home and tend the children, if she is outside?
I think the confusion among trads on this point is the question on wether it's ok to work outside of the home after being married but before children. Most agree that working outside the home with children is a no-no, but see no problem with doing it before the first child comes along. 
My husband settled that question before it even became one when we were engaged. He made it clear that I was not to work outside the home once we were married, even if we were so unfortunate as to not be able to have kids for some reason. I was so relieved! It gave me every opportunity to be single minded on making the home. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 05, 2018, 07:26:59 PM
What is "the model"? Could you be more specific?

"The model" of feminism is simply unchastity. Could this thread be titled "Trads raising unchaste daughters"? Is that what you're trying say?
The model is for women in the workplace. Unchastity is a byproduct. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on July 05, 2018, 07:33:42 PM
If the couple has no children, it may be acceptable at first as the wife winds down in the outside world and moves to a greater vocation.  However, the chastity issue exists in that case.
Yes, a wife should not be in the male-dominated workforce because it's placing herself in an occasion of sin against chastity.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on July 05, 2018, 07:35:25 PM
Are you kidding? ?
I'm not letting my kids be raised by daycare workers so my wife can work!
Are you crazy?  Children belong with their mothers.
Just because I ask the question means I think wives should work outside the home?
I was pleased to see two answers: (1) it separates mothers/children and (2) it's an occasion of sins against chastity.
Are there other reasons?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 05, 2018, 07:36:07 PM
Who would have thought?
:cheers:

Just don't post about flat earth, and you're good.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 05, 2018, 07:39:22 PM
Just because I ask the question means I think wives should work outside the home?
I was pleased to see two answers: (1) it separates mothers/children and (2) it's an occasion of sins against chastity.
Are there other reasons?
It puts the woman under the authority of someone other than her husband. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 05, 2018, 07:44:03 PM
I think the confusion among trads on this point is the question on wether it's ok to work outside of the home after being married but before children. Most agree that working outside the home with children is a no-no, but see no problem with doing it before the first child comes along.
My husband settled that question before it even became one when we were engaged. He made it clear that I was not to work outside the home once we were married, even if we were so unfortunate as to not be able to have kids for some reason. I was so relieved! It gave me every opportunity to be single minded on making the home.
My husband said the same. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 05, 2018, 07:50:14 PM
Yes, a wife should not be in the male-dominated workforce because it's placing herself in an occasion of sin against chastity.

It's no longer male-dominated, but if I recall the stats are nearly 50-50.  I even see women working on construction crews ... much less in offices.  Consequently, one could say that men are just as much in an occasion of sin.  Honestly, though, occasion of sin is subjective.  I am not the least bit tempted by any women in the workplace and never have been, so it's not even a remote occasion of sin for me.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Vintagewife3 on July 05, 2018, 07:51:58 PM
Feminists think house and family isn't enough?  Why would a woman take on her responsibilities, then take on the man's also?  Go to work, Sir, I'm not doing your work too, I got the kids and the house.  
Girl, preach it 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼


I know a family where the mother started going to school/working when the kids needed her most. She has 3 children, I married the eldest son. Her second son has a severe drug addiction, and lived a life of horrors until starting to recover. Concerning her daughter I think Satan makes better company compared to her. The only one she was home for most of his years was my husband. The other two not so much. The family also sent both kids away to college. My husband paid his own way through trade school, but the younger two had always had things handed to them. The daughter is vicious if she doesn’t get what she wants. So my two cents is moms belong at home.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 05, 2018, 07:53:51 PM
:applause:
Yes, that's it exactly.  It is extremely difficult to uproot feminism when it invades our souls.

Bishop Williamson has said the same thing about liberalism and Modernism, saying that we're all infected to varying degrees ... and he explicitly included himself.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on July 05, 2018, 08:13:08 PM
It puts the woman under the authority of someone other than her husband.
Wives are under the authority of their priests, too, aren't they?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 05, 2018, 09:47:18 PM
Wives are under the authority of their priests, too, aren't they?
The fourth commandment applies to your parents, then to all other people in authority over you.
.
The requirement of a wife being under the authority of her husband is stronger than the fourth commandment because she made a vow to God to love, honor and obey her husband.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 05, 2018, 11:51:52 PM
It's no longer male-dominated, but if I recall the stats are nearly 50-50.  I even see women working on construction crews ... much less in offices.


(http://sandrarose.com/images28/leonor-flores-549x284.jpg?x64655)


(http://sandrarose.com/images28/mcm-builder-549x411.jpg?x64655)


(https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1521195782059.jpg)
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 06, 2018, 12:17:57 AM
Girl, preach it 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼


I know a family where the mother started going to school/working when the kids needed her most. She has 3 children, I married the eldest son. Her second son has a severe drug addiction, and lived a life of horrors until starting to recover. Concerning her daughter I think Satan makes better company compared to her. The only one she was home for most of his years was my husband. The other two not so much. The family also sent both kids away to college. My husband paid his own way through trade school, but the younger two had always had things handed to them. The daughter is vicious if she doesn’t get what she wants. So my two cents is moms belong at home.

I really believe that many of the senseless evil we see in the world today, is due to the lack of motherly affection in the formative years.

And actually, this human need for motherly affection seems to go beyond childhood and stay with us, even unto old age.

The worth of a good mother is unsurpassable; just as the misconduct of a bad one can be quite destructive.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: poche on July 06, 2018, 02:12:17 AM
On the other thread,  Jaynek said Trads are "subtly influenced" by feminism.

I will say it is MUCH worse than this.

I see Trads raising feminist daughters.

Examples:

Science and university attendence emphasized by stay-at-home mothers.

Female graduates who came from homes with many children stating they "don't want kids. "


And the mothers viewing that as NORMAL.

If you spent the last 20 years in the home fulfilling God's female role raising your children and they reject motherhood, you have failed!

Worse, if you think your daughter wanting to go be a scientist and not have kids is okay, YOU ARE A FEMINIST.
I think that science and university attendance by girls can be a good thing. As for any female graduate who came home and said, "I don't want kids." I would recommend that she look into religious life, maybe a teaching order.   
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 06, 2018, 10:17:18 AM
I think that science and university attendance by girls can be a good thing. 
It's not a good thing, poche.  However, if your daughter insisted on attending university and you had no control over it, I would at least try to convince her to go into the sciences where there are fewer liberal arts classes. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 06, 2018, 12:48:11 PM

(http://sandrarose.com/images28/leonor-flores-549x284.jpg?x64655)


(http://sandrarose.com/images28/mcm-builder-549x411.jpg?x64655)


(https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1521195782059.jpg)
Speechless! 
Blood on their hands...
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 06, 2018, 01:15:31 PM
I think that science and university attendance by girls can be a good thing. As for any female graduate who came home and said, "I don't want kids." I would recommend that she look into religious life, maybe a teaching order.  
Attending university is never a good thing.
As anyone who has been knows, and has attested to here. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on July 06, 2018, 01:54:34 PM
Attending university is never a good thing.
These days, yes. They'd learn so much more in a monastery.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: poche on July 06, 2018, 10:32:30 PM
Attending university is never a good thing.
As anyone who has been knows, and has attested to here.
We bring up the children as best we can. We try to give them an understanding of values and morality and an understanding of what is important in life. But at some point they will have to be out on their own.  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 07, 2018, 12:19:55 AM
I think that science and university attendance by girls can be a good thing. As for any female graduate who came home and said, "I don't want kids." I would recommend that she look into religious life, maybe a teaching order.  

The problem is that they are being actively brainwashed in the universities to NOT want any children. To repudiate husbands and families and focus on their "careers" instead so they become "strong and independent" women.

Most women (not all) actually want children naturally, they just rationalize they don't want them; especially after they realize it is too late and they have not secured a husband to have them with.

The most foolish ones go on and become "single moms" in an irresponsible rush. Other ones, (actually the majority of them nowadays), are nurturing cats and dogs instead of real children in a desperate attempt to fulfill that female need.  

Women should not be wasting their prime years in universities.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: happenby on July 07, 2018, 08:56:56 AM
The problem is that they are being actively brainwashed in the universities to NOT want any children. To repudiate husbands and families and focus on their "careers" instead so they become "strong and independent" women.

Most women (not all) actually want children naturally, they just rationalize they don't want them; especially after they realize it is too late and they have not secured a husband to have them with.

The most foolish ones go on and become "single moms" in an irresponsible rush. Other ones, (actually the majority of them nowadays), are nurturing cats and dogs instead of real children in a desperate attempt to fulfill that female need.  

Women should not be wasting their prime years in universities.
Gotta be a feminαzι to thumb this down. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 07, 2018, 09:39:04 AM
These days, yes. They'd learn so much more in a monastery.
... If there was a good one to send them to...
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on July 07, 2018, 12:35:42 PM
The problem is that they are being actively brainwashed in the universities to NOT want any children.
Not only that, but they also ridicule the religious life. Look at the titles of the publications of this history prof (https://history.arizona.edu/user/beth-plummer): Priest's Whore to Pastor's Wife, “‘Nothing More than Common Whores and Knaves’: Married Monks and Nuns in the Early German Reformation.”, etc. Universities study, propagandize, and promote perversions, even outside the "gender studies" and LBGTQxyz departments.
To repudiate husbands and families and focus on their "careers"
A friend of mine doing pro-life work asked a young lady at a university if she wants kids. She said she would drop out and have lots of children right away, but for some reason she kept worshiping the careerism idol. Young women even sacrifice their children to Moloch in exchange for a piece of paper (diploma) or a "rewarding" (read: enslaving) career.

instead so they become "strong and independent" women.
Strong is good, but "independent" is a euphemism for disobedient.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: jvk on July 07, 2018, 07:54:38 PM
And not only all of the above, but women are also told/taught that to have children closer than 2 years apart is "damaging" and "dangerous" to the health of the woman and baby. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: poche on July 07, 2018, 10:35:52 PM
The problem is that they are being actively brainwashed in the universities to NOT want any children. To repudiate husbands and families and focus on their "careers" instead so they become "strong and independent" women.

Most women (not all) actually want children naturally, they just rationalize they don't want them; especially after they realize it is too late and they have not secured a husband to have them with.

The most foolish ones go on and become "single moms" in an irresponsible rush. Other ones, (actually the majority of them nowadays), are nurturing cats and dogs instead of real children in a desperate attempt to fulfill that female need.  

Women should not be wasting their prime years in universities.
Wherever they go once they leave home there will be voices against what the Church teaches. We have to give them our best and when we send them out into the world we should pray for them that they be faithful to the Faith that we taught them. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: poche on July 07, 2018, 10:36:39 PM
And not only all of the above, but women are also told/taught that to have children closer than 2 years apart is "damaging" and "dangerous" to the health of the woman and baby.
It is also best if the parents are married to each other also.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 09, 2018, 06:53:03 AM
And not only all of the above, but women are also told/taught that to have children closer than 2 years apart is "damaging" and "dangerous" to the health of the woman and baby.
And actively encouraged to poison their bodies and pervert the purpose of both marriage and intimacy by using birth control. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 09, 2018, 07:00:22 AM
I think that science and university attendance by girls can be a good thing. As for any female graduate who came home and said, "I don't want kids." I would recommend that she look into religious life, maybe a teaching order.  
I personally think that if girls are to go onto higher education it should be in a carefully controlled environment, only with parental consent and the subjects should be appropriate.
Absolutely any woman who is not able to accept the complete openness to children which is an integral part of the vocation of marriage should be steered to seek the fulfilment of a religious vocation. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 09, 2018, 09:02:10 AM
I personally think that if girls are to go onto higher education it should be in a carefully controlled environment, only with parental consent and the subjects should be appropriate.

Well, I plan on putting the same types of controls on my sons.  I'm not sure why this kind of thing should be limited to girls.  At some point, though, as parents, we have to let go.  We cannot shelter them forever.  At some point, they will have to make a go of it in the world and will EVENTUALLY encounter the evils and wickedness of the world, and they will make their own decisions.  We try to prepare them, but we have to hope and pray that they make the right choices in life.  More than just controlling them forever, which we can't do, we need to try preparing them so that they will make the right decisions ON THEIR OWN when the time comes.

So ... and I never thought this would ever happen ... but I agree with poche.  That was difficult to type  :).
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 09, 2018, 10:08:27 AM
Considering the current state of colleges and universities, they do not seem suitable environments for Catholic sons, either.

It is truly lamentable, but I don't know where a Catholic young man can receive a higher education today, when all institutions are freemasonic in nature, and quite perverted on the moral level. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 09, 2018, 10:31:49 AM
Considering the current state of colleges and universities, they do not seem suitable environments for Catholic sons, either.

No, they're really not.  I won't have my sons living on campus, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 09, 2018, 10:37:21 AM
Considering the current state of colleges and universities, they do not seem suitable environments for Catholic sons, either.

It is truly lamentable, but I don't know where a Catholic young man can receive a higher education today, when all institutions are freemasonic in nature, and quite perverted on the moral level.

Not to mention that the quality of education is nothing short of garbage.  I remember taking a graduate level theology course at Catholic University of America in Thomistic theology.  I can safely say that I learned more in my first two weeks at seminary than I did during that entire course.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 09, 2018, 11:01:14 AM
Not to mention that the quality of education is nothing short of garbage.  I remember taking a graduate level theology course at Catholic University of America in Thomistic theology.  I can safely say that I learned more in my first two weeks at seminary than I did during that entire course.

I know of families who recommend sending sons to the state university; over your typical "Catholic" Jesuit university. They say they have a better chance of keeping the Faith in the secular university than the Novus Ordo Catholic.   :facepalm:

Be aware of wolves in sheeps clothing! 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on July 09, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
Not to mention that the quality of education is nothing short of garbage.  I remember taking a graduate level theology course at Catholic University of America in Thomistic theology.  I can safely say that I learned more in my first two weeks at seminary than I did during that entire course.
What seminary was that?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Jaynek on July 09, 2018, 12:58:20 PM
So ... and I never thought this would ever happen ... but I agree with poche.  That was difficult to type  :).
I know what you're going through.  Imagine how hard it was for me to agree with Smedley.
 :jester: 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: dymphnaw on July 09, 2018, 01:40:26 PM
On the other thread,  Jaynek said Trads are "subtly influenced" by feminism.

I will say it is MUCH worse than this.

I see Trads raising feminist daughters.

Examples:

Science and university attendence emphasized by stay-at-home mothers.

Female graduates who came from homes with many children stating they "don't want kids. "


And the mothers viewing that as NORMAL.

If you spent the last 20 years in the home fulfilling God's female role raising your children and they reject motherhood, you have failed!

Worse, if you think your daughter wanting to go be a scientist and not have kids is okay, YOU ARE A FEMINIST.



Maybe the daughters are just tired and it's a phase. My mother came from a big family. Before I was born she took care of  a brother, a niece, nephew and she worked as a nanny for a year after graduation. Let me hasten to add that my mother was delighted to have me but there are some foolish women who work their oldest daughter too hard and leave the girl  burned out and resentful by the age of 20. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 09, 2018, 02:13:46 PM
What seminary was that?

St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary in Winona, MN.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 09, 2018, 02:15:33 PM
I know of families who recommend sending sons to the state university; over your typical "Catholic" Jesuit university. They say they have a better chance of keeping the Faith in the secular university than the Novus Ordo Catholic.   :facepalm:


Quote
I tell my relatives and best friends, ‘If you want your children to fight for their faith, send them to public school. If you want them to lose their faith, send them to Catholic school.’ ~Archbishop Fulton Sheen

Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 09, 2018, 02:24:50 PM
I have never heard of the a.b. sheen quote, but I said the same thing many years ago to our local sspx priest.  I will never send my child to a catholic college or university.

Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: TxTrad on July 09, 2018, 02:27:23 PM
I know of families who recommend sending sons to the state university; over your typical "Catholic" Jesuit university. They say they have a better chance of keeping the Faith in the secular university than the Novus Ordo Catholic.   :facepalm:

Those families are right!
At least the children will expect the bad stuff, and it will be right in their face to reject.
At a "catholic" college or university, the bad stuff is still there, but because it happens at a "catholic" college the child grows confused and risks losing his faith.
All too common.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Vintagewife3 on July 10, 2018, 08:37:45 AM
I honestly don’t see the good in completely sheltering children who are 13-18 or up. The only thing that does is give a sort of... alternative reality.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 10, 2018, 09:24:57 AM
I know what you're going through.  Imagine how hard it was for me to agree with Smedley.
 :jester:
:laugh2:
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 10, 2018, 09:26:28 AM
I honestly don’t see the good in completely sheltering children who are 13-18 or up. The only thing that does is give a sort of... alternative reality.
I think 13-18 is the MOST important age to protect them.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 10, 2018, 10:11:10 AM
Quote
Children have not been given to parents as a present, which they may dispose of as they please, but as a trust, for which, if lost through their negligence, they must render an account to God. The Scripture tells us, that when a father observes the divine law, both he and his children shall prosper. “That it may be well with thee and thy children after thee, when thou shalt do that which is pleasing in the sight of God.” (Deut. xii. 25.) The good or ill conduct of a parent may be known, by those who have not witnessed it, from the life which his children lead. “For by the fruit the tree is known. ”

Quote
4. If all fathers fulfilled their duty of watching over the education of their children, we should have but few crimes and few executions. By the bad education which parents give to their offspring, they cause their children, says St. Chrysostom, to rush into many grievous vices; and thus they deliver them up to the hands of the executioner.

Great indeed is the misfortune of the child that has vicious parents, who are incapable of bringing up their children in the fear of God, and who, when they see their children engaged in dangerous friendships and in quarrels, instead of correcting and chastising them, rather take compassion on them, and say: ”What can be done? They are young; they must take their course.” Oh! what wicked maxims! what a cruel education! Do you hope that when your children grow up they shall become saints? Listen to what Solomon says: ”A young man, according to his way, even when he is old, he will not depart from it.” (Prov. xxii. 6.) A young man who has contracted a habit of sin will not abandon it even in his old age. ”His bones,” says Job, ”shall be filled with the vices of his youth, and they shall sleep with him in the dust.”

ON THE EDUCATION OF CHILDREN – St. Alphonsus (http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2017/07/22/education-children-st-alphonsus/)



I think that it is not an exaggeration to say that in this day and age sending your children to godless institutions is precisely "delivering them up to the hands of the executioner" as says St. Chrysostom.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: JezusDeKoning on July 10, 2018, 10:24:05 AM
I think 13-18 is the MOST important age to protect them.
I agree, but you can't shield and protect them forever... otherwise, you get those Katy Perry types who completely rebel and stuff. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 10, 2018, 10:33:07 AM
I agree, but you can't shield and protect them forever... otherwise, you get those Katy Perry types who completely rebel and stuff.

At the same time, I can think of many things a parent may actually do, in order to protect the virtue of his children. To think that you are powerless on this respect is a defeatist suggestion of the devil.

There are many parents out there who "throw the towel" even before the fight.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 10, 2018, 10:47:20 AM
I honestly don’t see the good in completely sheltering children who are 13-18 or up. The only thing that does is give a sort of... alternative reality.

In fact, one could argue, that this might be the time in which to do a controlled release.  At least during this age they are living at home.  So if they come into contact with various evils (heresies, errors, bad morals of others, etc.) ... you can help guide their decision-making and their approach to dealing with these things.  But if they're completely sheltered and then suddenly leave home at 18 only to see the world's depravity head-on, they've had little guided practice in terms of how to deal with such things.  So, for instance, my oldest daughter ran into an alleged Catholic who held, basically, that the Bible was just a bunch of stories and the miracles in the Bible are made up.  So she told me and my wife about this, and we helped her with the apologetics necessary to debunk that garbage.  She ended up convinced that the person was nothing more than a completely faithless bad-willed idiot.  But what if she had run into this later in life, after she had left home?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 10, 2018, 10:59:59 AM
I agree, but you can't shield and protect them forever... otherwise, you get those Katy Perry types who completely rebel and stuff.

It's an incredibly difficult thing to navigate.  If you beat them down with an iron fist, then many do in fact rebound and rebel and go more crazy in the opposite direction than they would have otherwise.  I have made the decision to make some concessions because I sensed a brewing resentment and rebellion because they couldn't be like their friends (this especially from girls).  Girls are complete lemmings, and slaves to convention; if everyone is doing something, then they can't stand the thought of being considered an outcast, of being socially shunned, and being looked down on.  Boys are less susceptible to this kind of thing.  [And, this by the way, is why girls and women need the guidance of a good man.]  In any case, not to digress, but I made some concessions along the lines of their being able to listen to a bit of pop music and wear a light amount of makeup.  And lest you think that the battle is with "worldly" companions, the problem arose at a Traditional Catholic school, where their Traditional Catholic friends were "doing all these things".  There was even a teacher at the school who raved about how much she liked Katy Perry.  Now, I still have Katy Perry banned, but that's a side issue.  My point is that these bad influences were from Traditional Catholics.  So, it wasn't bad enough that the girls felt like outsiders to the world and to Catholics in general, but that they would have considered us more rigorist even than TRADITIONAL Catholics, and a resentment was starting up.  So it was a no-win situation.  But my prudential judgment was that they would have lashed back and gone wild in the other direction if I didn't let up a little.  It's like with alcohol.  I let my kids have a little.  That prevents some kind of unnatural fascination with it that college kids develop when they first leave home and get to drink (because it's no longer forbidden by their parents) ... and then they make idiots out of themselves with it.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Vintagewife3 on July 10, 2018, 11:20:09 AM
I think 13-18 is the MOST important age to protect them.
You can’t send naive kids into the world, and hope for the best. Its just not practical... the kids I know who were most protected ended up being the worst human beings I know, and atheists to boot. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 10, 2018, 11:45:23 AM
And there is the issue of example....

Quote
8. But parents are obliged to instruct their children in the practice of virtue, not only by words, but still more by example. If you give your children bad example, how can you expect that they will lead a good life? When a dissolute young man is corrected for a fault, he answers: Why do you censure me, when my father does worse. “The children will complain of an ungodly father, because for his sake they are in reproach. ”(Eccl. xli. 10.)


And ignorance is not an excuse for not instructing the children well, for as St. Alphonsus says in his sermon:

Quote
Should a father or a mother say: I myself do not know these mysteries (of Faith), can such an excuse be admitted? that is, can one sin excuse another? If you are ignorant of these mysteries you are obliged to learn them, and afterwards teach them to your children.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36846199_1902380890059090_8763860100105371648_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=b68603d9ac45d695be0b0b3eb05ded67&oe=5BA452F0)
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 10, 2018, 04:43:07 PM
I don’t believe it is so much about ‘sheltering’ children, as they grow up and especially through their teens and beyond they need to be made aware of the sinful world in which we live. 

But what we should ensure we do is to protect them from the risk of falling into sin, keep them from near occasions for sin and yes exercise parental authority. 

Boys need to be prepared for independence and for their future role as the head of their family.  Girls need to be protected, supervised and chaperoned until marriage
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Smedley Butler on July 10, 2018, 07:08:08 PM
You can’t send naive kids into the world, and hope for the best. Its just not practical... the kids I know who were most protected ended up being the worst human beings I know, and atheists to boot.
It seems we have a different standard of protection. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 11, 2018, 12:33:35 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35970884_2470336946313665_8263443448879644672_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=433b2974c29716439f93cb3905f1b72a&oe=5BCE8BE1)
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Ladislaus on July 11, 2018, 10:53:09 AM
Boys need to be prepared for independence and for their future role as the head of their family.  Girls need to be protected, supervised and chaperoned until marriage

Except that not all girls end up marrying.  So what happens to them then, when their parents pass away.  Do they go on welfare?

Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on July 11, 2018, 04:45:15 PM
Except that not all girls end up marrying.  So what happens to them then, when their parents pass away.  Do they go on welfare?
If older unmarried women are not in a religious vocation then perhaps the wider family can provide the leadership and protection needed when parents can no longer do so. Failing that the Church should take a responsible approach. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Pax Vobis on July 11, 2018, 05:43:22 PM
An older, unmarried woman should obviously be burned at the stake, since she's a witch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2xlQaimsGg
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Seraphina on July 11, 2018, 07:15:00 PM
If older unmarried women are not in a religious vocation then perhaps the wider family can provide the leadership and protection needed when parents can no longer do so. Failing that the Church should take a responsible approach.
I've asked numerous priests about this.  With one exception, they agree.  But they all note that this does not happen in the reality of today's world.  Several suggest living with a group of like-minded older single women, or with a roommate.
It sounds like a good solution, but having tried it from time to time, I've come to realize it generally doesn't work outside of a religious house with some type of hierarchy and commitment to remain.
Twice I've been in situations with 3-5 single ladies.  As they moved out and on with their lives, I was left with the constant worry over replacing them so that I could pay the rent.  I've had four roommates, two for two years apiece before one moved out to get married, the other to take a job.  Of the others, one lasted six months before I had to hire a lawyer to evict her...let's just say she was involved in illegal activity.  The last was a wonderful, kind-hearted lady who passed away at age 33 from complications of diabetes.  
But this was all long ago.  The only older singles I know are elderly living with adult children's families, in a nursing home, or male.  (No, the man is not free to marry, so no possibilities there!)  
It seems I must make do without the protection and guidance of an earthly head.

Or Pax can burn me at the stake?  A stake-burning might make for a really profitable fundraiser!  Of course, that'll make me a martyr and, well, poor Pax?  I just hope he'll be able to make a good confession...Maybe it's not such a good idea, eh?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: poche on July 11, 2018, 10:52:38 PM
Except that not all girls end up marrying.  So what happens to them then, when their parents pass away.  Do they go on welfare?
That is why they have to learn some way to make an honest living. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Nadir on July 11, 2018, 11:08:22 PM
If older unmarried women are not in a religious vocation then perhaps the wider family can provide the leadership and protection needed when parents can no longer do so. Failing that the Church should take a responsible approach.
I am curious as just what you mean by "A responsible approach". It sounds to me like you are saying that a woman can never reach a state of maturity but must always remain in a state of fragility of body and mind.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 12, 2018, 12:03:47 AM
As I was reading tonight the works of Mons. De Segur, I found this:

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37025576_10155773347883691_4571363357919019008_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=ad1cb06ca14ef1deabd4bbd7c36fb73e&oe=5BD1C8F8)



Very interesting! "How Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ Extends its Action to Young Girls" (By via of professional schools). This is written in the year 1867.

Women liberation and the evils we witness happening in the XX century are all part of a Freemasonic, truly Luciferian, conspiracy against God and His Christ.

The end of the chapter reads:

Quote
Those schools are the more dangerous because their anti-Christian character is entirely negative. What women, what mothers of family are to come out of them!
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 12, 2018, 12:32:29 AM
Quote
There is something then, truly serious in point, not only of morality but also of Faith, and the future of the Church, in this ridiculous initiation of women (to Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ). Freemasons know to what advantage women can be used. They know that woman, once hurled into the ways of impiety and vengeance, is more savage, and more tenacious than man, and goes further than he. Is it to be wondered at, if they are happy to see women affiliated to their Order, and if they loudly declare than "to found Lodges for women, would be going at a giant's rate in the way of humanitarian progress? These are the words of the Masonic World, Oct 1866.

It is known that their "humanitarian progress" simply is anti-Christianism.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 12, 2018, 12:19:31 PM
Quote
Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ aims at wrestling from us the souls of our children; let us react with utmost energy, and from evil let us draw good. Let us kindle anew our zeal for the salvation and sanctification, and to prepare them to be soldiers of the Church. Fathers and mothers, do not forget that God has entrusted you with the care of their souls, and that education, if not thoroughly Christian, is now more than ever, an immense danger for them.

Again, this was written in 1867.

I am sure that Mons. De Segur could not even have phantom the monstrosities we are actually witnessing being taught in schools, nowadays:



(https://media.breitbart.com/media/2015/08/GettyImages-160164020-640x404.jpg)
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Matthew on July 12, 2018, 12:44:18 PM
Have any of you not clicked on this link? 

YOU NEED TO. It shows just how insane the modern world has become -- including all public schools.

https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/gender-madness/
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on July 12, 2018, 01:08:08 PM
Again, this was written in 1867.

I am sure that Mons. De Segur could not even have phantom the monstrosities we are actually witnessing being taught in schools, nowadays:


Someone brought this word error to my attention.

I meant:

"I am sure that Mons. De Segur could not even have fathomed* the monstrosities we are actually witnessing being taught in schools, nowadays"

Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on August 09, 2018, 06:15:53 PM
Very interesting! "How Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ Extends its Action to Young Girls" (By via of professional schools). This is written in the year 1867.
St. Dominic's solution to the miseducation of the Albigenses was to educate Catholic girls himself (whence his founding of the Prouille convent).

Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ's method of making recruits has always been to separate fathers from their family, as the Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita and Piccolo Tigre's letter (https://librivox.org/the-war-of-antichrist-with-the-church-and-christian-civilization-by-george-f-dillon/) show.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: poche on August 10, 2018, 10:36:33 PM
St. Dominic's solution to the miseducation of the Albigenses was to educate Catholic girls himself (whence his founding of the Prouille convent).

Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ's method of making recruits has always been to separate fathers from their family, as the Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita and Piccolo Tigre's letter (https://librivox.org/the-war-of-antichrist-with-the-church-and-christian-civilization-by-george-f-dillon/) show.
Better that the education of girls be conducted by women religious. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on August 10, 2018, 11:04:18 PM
Better that the education of girls be conducted by women religious.
Yes, that's what the nuns of Prouille did.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on August 10, 2018, 11:22:46 PM
Better that the education of girls be conducted by women religious.

But not these ones:


(https://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/images/G007_WomenReligious.jpg)

(https://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/images/G007_ManlySisters.jpg)


Notice how ugly and masculinized these women are.

Sisters Indoctrinating Girls with Radical Feminism (https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/d012_GirlsUN.htm)
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on August 11, 2018, 11:18:56 PM
Notice how ugly and masculinized these women are.
You sure they're all women in that picture?…
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on September 05, 2018, 03:31:13 PM
Most agree that working outside the home with children is a no-no, but see no problem with doing it before the first child comes along.
It seems that's not good, either, because the stress of working outside the home could prevent her from ever getting pregnant, couldn't it?
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on September 05, 2018, 04:28:09 PM
It seems that's not good, either, because the stress of working outside the home could prevent her from ever getting pregnant, couldn't it?
Unless forced by financial necessities it is best that women going into marriage do give up work outside the home for many reasons.  Certainly career should never be used to justify delaying motherhood. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Nadir on September 08, 2018, 12:12:31 AM
When my parents were married, it was a forgone conclusion that the bride would give up their employment on marriage. A good reason to call them "the good old days'! Very sane and the sexes understood what their roles were and women were so feminine. https://www.retrowaste.com/1940s/1940s-fashion/1940s-wedding-dresses-gowns-trends-pictures/

How different from the run-of-the-mill wedding dress so common today. And I do mean common!  
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on September 10, 2018, 12:20:01 PM
From the Transformed Wife blog:

Quote
It’s growing harder for men to protect, love, and provide for women because feminism put women into the workforce to compete AGAINST men for jobs, money, and power. This has resulted in less jobs, money, and power for men in society as women make up nearly half of the workforce today. And men without jobs, money, or power do not attract females and/or lose the female they had via divorce


(https://thetransformedwife.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/man-768x1078.jpg)

https://thetransformedwife.com/women-in-the-workforce-have-hurt-mens-ability-to-provide-for-their-families/
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Geremia on September 10, 2018, 12:56:36 PM
(https://thetransformedwife.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/man-768x1078.jpg)
And men acting like women in the workforce…
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on September 10, 2018, 04:43:02 PM
I think that there are a whole lot of reasons why it is better if women expect and are expected to give up work outside the home when they marry and my personal view is that no mother should do so unless it is an absolute financial imperative.
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: AMDGJMJ on September 18, 2018, 11:06:25 AM
I think the key difficulty for traditional Catholic parents in trying to raise their daughters as truly feminine ladies is the fact that it is not always easy to find a proper balance and to know when to make exceptions to the normal rules.

We must protect the innocence of our children but also we must instruct them diligently to have a well-formed conscience.  

We must train them delicately as to some of what is out there so that when they see the evils of the world they themselves recognize it as something they should turn away from.

I am reminded of the quote in Proverbs 22,6: "It is a proverb: A young man according to his way, even when he is old he will not depart from it."  We have to teach our children from the time they are young what is good and what is evil.  Yet, at the same time do it in a manner that guards their innocence.  Such is not always easy, yet such is the task and duty of parents.  

Also, it is important to remember that children learn by example...  Many traditional Catholic mothers are not perfect examples of modesty, humility and meekness (true femininity).  Their daughters see their mothers standing up to their fathers and being disrespectful towards them.  So, as the daughters grow up they in turn do likewise.  Granted, everyone has free-will, but it is much less rare in a family where the mother is a true model of feminine virtue do the daughters easily go astray.  So, in order for our daughters to be raised as models with true feminine quality; first we mothers must become those models for them.  Traditional men also ought to encourage their wives and daughters to be more feminine and support their wives in not allowing their daughters to adopt manly qualities or habits.

Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: SusanneT on September 18, 2018, 11:37:58 AM
I think the key difficulty for traditional Catholic parents in trying to raise their daughters as truly feminine ladies is the fact that it is not always easy to find a proper balance and to know when to make exceptions to the normal rules.

We must protect the innocence of our children but also we must instruct them diligently to have a well-formed conscience.  

We must train them delicately as to some of what is out there so that when they see the evils of the world they themselves recognize it as something they should turn away from.

I am reminded of the quote in Proverbs 22,6: "It is a proverb: A young man according to his way, even when he is old he will not depart from it."  We have to teach our children from the time they are young what is good and what is evil.  Yet, at the same time do it in a manner that guards their innocence.  Such is not always easy, yet such is the task and duty of parents.  

Also, it is important to remember that children learn by example...  Many traditional Catholic mothers are not perfect examples of modesty, humility and meekness (true femininity).  Their daughters see their mothers standing up to their fathers and being disrespectful towards them.  So, as the daughters grow up they in turn do likewise.  Granted, everyone has free-will, but it is much less rare in a family where the mother is a true model of feminine virtue do the daughters easily go astray.  So, in order for our daughters to be raised as models with true feminine quality; first we mothers must become those models for them.  Traditional men also ought to encourage their wives and daughters to be more feminine and support their wives in not allowing their daughters to adopt manly qualities or habits.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said ! 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: John Grace on September 18, 2018, 12:02:11 PM
In recent days I told a few ladies about the forum so they are lurking. 
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: AMDGJMJ on September 19, 2018, 09:33:56 AM
In recent days I told a few ladies about the forum so they are lurking.
That is great!  We would love to have more ladies here!   ;D
Title: Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
Post by: Cantarella on September 19, 2018, 10:58:31 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42044968_577836279325966_1036968670493933568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=0678dc8bac1cddfbe89722466bfa7326&oe=5C1DF5FC)