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Author Topic: Trads raising feminist daughters  (Read 14634 times)

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Offline Seraphina

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Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2018, 11:29:18 AM »
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  • The suggestion that women might be better off not being a mother is a sure sign feminism is ingrained.  What is to become of a woman who seems "unfit" to be a mother?  She becomes worldly, and unless she takes some kind of vow of celibacy she will go on to contracept and/or abort, just to protect her place in the world. Trads should never advocate women in the workplace (except in necessity).  It's unnatural and contrary to wisdom in every way.  It is divisive for other women too, because their men have to endure the allure of women in the workplace.  It also risks salvation for the woman who is too selfish to overcome personal obstacles in order to be a good mother.
    You make some rather harsh and rash judgments about women. I've never taken a vow of celibacy, have a university education, live on my own as single in the world and have maintained my purity.  I am now 60 years of age and have been on my own since age 18.  It's not how I expected my life to turn out, but by God's grace, here I am.  My main workplace has no men to be allured.  I work for a non-profit home, teaching special needs children, ages 5-8.  Dare I say men are not suited for this type of work?  In the distant past, one would find nuns doing such work.  The other reason there are no men is because the pay is too low to make a living wage. All of my work colleagues are either married, living with their parents. Unlike the nuns of old, I don't get to spend my nonworking time in community where other needs are met by others, cooking, food, shelter, clothing, mass, sacraments, social and recreational...To make ends meet, I moonlight by housecleanig, tutoring, mending, other jobs as I find.
    I would greatly appreciate prayers rather than condemnations.  I am getting old and have very little provision should I have to quit working.  It's not because I wasted money, either.   


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #31 on: July 03, 2018, 11:36:04 AM »
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  • Trad schools are encouraging college for girls.

    To what end, I ask?

    For what purpose?
    My youngest daughter is going to a small Catholic college. (The older two are already married with children.) One purpose is for her to experience living in a Catholic sub-culture.  It is a place where she can wear modest dresses and feel like it is normal. It is also to increase her acquaintances among Catholic young adults to make it easier for her to meet a Catholic husband.

    She is studying philosophy, not something career oriented.  Her education will help her if she has children when she homeschools them.  When we talk about her future, we keep in mind how her plans can work with being a wife and mother.

    I expect that if she does get married she will end up with a good husband because she will compare the men she meets to her father.  She knows what a good husband and father looks like without even thinking about it.


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #32 on: July 03, 2018, 11:39:43 AM »
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  • You make some rather harsh and rash judgments about women. I've never taken a vow of celibacy, have a university education, live on my own as single in the world and have maintained my purity.  I am now 60 years of age and have been on my own since age 18.  It's not how I expected my life to turn out, but by God's grace, here I am.  My main workplace has no men to be allured.  I work for a non-profit home, teaching special needs children, ages 5-8.  Dare I say men are not suited for this type of work?  In the distant past, one would find nuns doing such work.  The other reason there are no men is because the pay is too low to make a living wage. All of my work colleagues are either married, living with their parents. Unlike the nuns of old, I don't get to spend my nonworking time in community where other needs are met by others, cooking, food, shelter, clothing, mass, sacraments, social and recreational...To make ends meet, I moonlight by housecleanig, tutoring, mending, other jobs as I find.
    I would greatly appreciate prayers rather than condemnations.  I am getting old and have very little provision should I have to quit working.  It's not because I wasted money, either.  
    You are not to be condemned, but to be commended for your great work.  As I mentioned, necessity changes the rules sometimes.  You'd have to admit you are an anomaly.  Most women could not have taken the singles life to the level of nobility, so it really cannot come recommended or be prepared for except indirectly by a great respect for God and the true Faith.  Not because it can't be done, but because it can rarely be done properly.  You stand as a model for all men and women because you have taken all your distinct opportunities and turned your circuмstances into glory for God and credit to yourself.   

    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #33 on: July 03, 2018, 11:41:01 AM »
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  •  I work for a non-profit home, teaching special needs children, ages 5-8.  Dare I say men are not suited for this type of work?

    Depends on the special needs of the children. Men are better at teaching perceptual-motor skills to children who are deficient in that area.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #34 on: July 03, 2018, 11:45:26 AM »
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  • The women who aren't mature enough for marriage/babies are the ones who were not raised with a proper view of femininity, nor that phenomenal vocation exclusive to women.  But that doesn't mean they can't learn.  This has everything to do with Christ's missionary mandate and Catholics should always reflect these truths in their beliefs and conversation.
    Which is what I’m getting at. They need to learn before they take on such important roles. They have to also accept themselves for what exactly their sex is designed for. I’m not arguing. Or promoting any sort of feminism. A lady such as Described simply couldn’t be thrown into a situation of wife/mother without some intense personal reflection, and prayer.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #35 on: July 03, 2018, 11:49:44 AM »
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  • You make some rather harsh and rash judgments about women. I've never taken a vow of celibacy, have a university education, live on my own as single in the world and have maintained my purity.  I am now 60 years of age and have been on my own since age 18.  It's not how I expected my life to turn out, but by God's grace, here I am.  My main workplace has no men to be allured.  I work for a non-profit home, teaching special needs children, ages 5-8.  Dare I say men are not suited for this type of work?  In the distant past, one would find nuns doing such work.  The other reason there are no men is because the pay is too low to make a living wage. All of my work colleagues are either married, living with their parents. Unlike the nuns of old, I don't get to spend my nonworking time in community where other needs are met by others, cooking, food, shelter, clothing, mass, sacraments, social and recreational...To make ends meet, I moonlight by housecleanig, tutoring, mending, other jobs as I find.
    I would greatly appreciate prayers rather than condemnations.  I am getting old and have very little provision should I have to quit working.  It's not because I wasted money, either.  
    You are the exception,  not the rule.
    The problem is Trads accepting the world's ideas of what is good for the daughter.
    They need to go back to God's plan fpr daughters.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #36 on: July 03, 2018, 11:49:53 AM »
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  • Quote
    The suggestion that women might be better off not being a mother is a sure sign feminism is ingrained.

    Yet, it is a fact of life that many women will never marry. Especially nowadays when the incentive for men to marry them is close to mmm ... zero! (After all, they are getting all the *benefits* without any commitment on their part; yet modern woman is too short sighted to see things for what they really are ::)).  


    It is far better for those girls to remain single and celibate than become yet another "single mom".
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #37 on: July 03, 2018, 11:51:40 AM »
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  • Depends on the special needs of the children. Men are better at teaching perceptual-motor skills to children who are deficient in that area.
    Where do you live?  We have an OT position open for the 2018-2019 school year.  There have been a few male workers over the years, several excellent ones, with the boys ages 10-13, especially.  Unfortunately, these were young men who had to leave in order to get married or to pay off college loans and move out of Mom's basement!  


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #38 on: July 03, 2018, 11:51:49 AM »
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  • Which is what I’m getting at. They need to learn before they take on such important roles. They have to also accept themselves for what exactly their sex is designed for. I’m not arguing. Or promoting any sort of feminism. A lady such as discerned simply couldn’t be thrown into a situation of wife/mother without some intense personal reflection, and prayer.
    I agree they should learn first.  But then, if they haven't learned, they also need to remain celibate, or if married, accept the children that come while they learn.  When someone says women should not be having kids, it is usually because they are advocating some sort of birth control.  That would be my only concern.  I can speak from experience: God sends kids to parents to straighten parents out.    

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #39 on: July 03, 2018, 11:53:13 AM »
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  • Yet, it is a fact of life that many women will never marry. Especially nowadays when the incentive for men to marry them is close to mmm ... zero! (After all, they are getting all the *benefits* without any commitment on their part; yet modern woman is too short sighted to see things for what they really are ::)).  


    It is far better for those girls to remain single and celibate than become yet another "single mom".
    Absolutely.  

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #40 on: July 03, 2018, 11:54:41 AM »
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  • My youngest daughter is going to a small Catholic college. (The older two are already married with children.) One purpose is for her to experience living in a Catholic sub-culture.  It is a place where she can wear modest dresses and feel like it is normal. It is also to increase her acquaintances among Catholic young adults to make it easier for her to meet a Catholic husband.

    She is studying philosophy, not something career oriented.  Her education will help her if she has children when she homeschools them.  When we talk about her future, we keep in mind how her plans can work with being a wife and mother.

    I expect that if she does get married she will end up with a good husband because she will compare the men she meets to her father.  She knows what a good husband and father looks like without even thinking about it.
    Sounds like she is there to get her "MRS" degree which is fine.
    Does she intend to work after becoming a mother?
    Does she wear pants?
    Are your other daughters/daughters-in-law working mothers?


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #41 on: July 03, 2018, 12:20:53 PM »
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  • You are the exception,  not the rule.
    The problem is Trads accepting the world's ideas of what is good for the daughter.
    They need to go back to God's plan fpr daughters.
    True.  I don't fit the profile of having had trad parents and sitting 20 years in the pew of a trad chapel. 

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #42 on: July 03, 2018, 12:32:45 PM »
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  • There is the "single" pseudo-vocation for both men and women -- but it must be a life like Seraphina (above) described: full of self-sacrifice of some sort.

    Mothers and fathers make umpteen sacrifices daily for their children.
    The religious life? Need I even mention the sacrifices that nuns, brothers, and monks make for God, on a daily basis?
    The priestly life? Ditto.

    Strictly speaking, a vocation is a calling from God out of the world to a religious/priestly vocation. The other vocations are not vocations in the strict sense.

    However, most of mankind is called to be married.

    But for those who can't find a suitable spouse, perhaps God is calling you to a special (exception to the rule) single "vocation". Look for some way to sanctify your own soul, help souls, help the Church, practice self-sacrifice and mortification, and do something that would make sense to fill in this sentence: "God created me so that I could _____".  Serve God in the religious life? Yup. Help God in the work of creating and raising up souls for heaven? Yes. Be a middle manager for XYZ company? I doubt it. Help special needs children? There you go!

    Single people have the ability/temptation to do what they want 24/7, march to the tune of their own drummer, and in general be completely selfish like no other class of person. That is why you need to start a company, group, apostolate, etc. based on your abilities, sex, and circuмstances. Thomas A. Nelson never married, but look at what he did with the years God gave him (he's still alive, BTW) -- Tan Books and Publishers!  A women probably wouldn't do that, but she could use her feminine abilities, especially patience and abilities with children, to help souls in some way. She could study apologetics and try to convert souls, help new converts to Tradition to feel welcome with her friendliness and good advice... she could make chapel veils, scapulars, distribute apologetics materials, promote the message of Fatima, promote Traditional Catholicism, the list is endless. Some apostolates would be better for young women, others would be better for older women (or widows). God has a plan and a place for everyone.

    But they all have something in common: mortification and work. You can't just spend your days in your man cave (or in front of the TV eating bon-bons) and have fun, and expect Heaven at the end of it.
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    Offline SusanneT

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #43 on: July 03, 2018, 12:44:46 PM »
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  • There is nothing wrong with a girl deciding that marriage is not for her,  choosing a religious vocation, or one in the wider service of Our Lord and a commitment to lifelong purity. 

    But for the majority who choose marriage, motherhood must always be seen as the nature fulfilment of God’s purpose of a woman’s life.

    It is for mothers to teach their daughters that these vocations are the only ones open to a Godly woman and that both require modesty, chastity and sacrifice. 

    A mother who teaches otherwise is a feminist. 

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Trads raising feminist daughters
    « Reply #44 on: July 03, 2018, 01:06:14 PM »
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  • Sounds like she is there to get her "MRS" degree which is fine.
    Does she intend to work after becoming a mother?
    Does she wear pants?
    Are your other daughters/daughters-in-law working mothers?
    She is considering becoming qualified as a piano teacher because that can be done part-time while raising children, if necessary to supplement the family income, or can be done full time if she does not marry.  She is already fairly advanced as a pianist so this is a realistic possibility for her.

    Her college has a dress code, so I don't know what she will end up choosing when it is totally up to her. It will also depend on whether she marries a man with firm opinions on the subject.  I can't imagine her wearing pants if her husband objected.  Of the other daughters, one is a SAHM who is homeschooling, and the other works with her husband in their family business.  Their child is not yet school age.

    But my older daughters had already left home before I rejected feminism and became a trad, so unfortunately they are seriously infected with feminism.  Because their father is such an outstanding example of manhood is not as bad as it might be, but it is still distressing.