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Author Topic: Trads Losing Their Children to the World  (Read 9000 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Trads Losing Their Children to the World
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2018, 11:59:44 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 30, 2018, 11:15:08 AM
Then you have the case of the loving parents but who are strict, not in the sense of not allowing freedom, but who are just "control freaks" and don't know how to "let go" and let their children legitimately experience AND FAIL at life.  They don't know how to let a 13 year old decide when/how to do their homework and face the consequences at school (the parents continue to micro-manage the teenager just like they did when he was 3 or 4).  If parents don't let their kids make dumb decisions at a young age, they'll make them when they're out of the house at 18 or 20.  You can't avoid dumb decisions; you can't avoid life lessons.  Failure is the best teacher there is.  But you have to let them fail in a controlled environment or else they will fail when no one is around and the consequences are more extreme.

That philosophy of letting them suffer the consequences of their own decisions is behind this particular system --
https://www.loveandlogic.com/

I can't entirely recommend it because it's imbued with Protestant errors, but the core of it is just what you describe.  Letting consequences teach the lessons.

Of course, one has to limit the field of play somewhat.  I'm not going to let my children go out and fornicate and then, say, "well, let them deal with an illegitimate child."  This Prot series doesn't draw that line.  You do have to protect them and prevent the graver things, but on a micro-level, I agree that it's important.

Of course, even in school, you don't want them to flush their lives down the toilet either, so you want to get on the a little about school work.  But if they blow off school and graduate with a 2.0 and end up not being able to support a family.  Sometimes adults are necessary to give them the perspective they lack at their own age.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Trads Losing Their Children to the World
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2018, 12:14:37 PM »
Agree.  I think the Protestants are way ahead of the curve on working together and learning from each other to solve 'natural law' problems.  Sometimes Trads get distracted with micro-managing children "to make them saints" and forget the basics of normal parenting. 

I listed to a radio show about a couple that experimented with how to teach their kids to handle money.  They decided to give their 10 year old son a monthly stipend and tell them they had to use it for 1) new shoes for the upcoming year and 2) an upcoming birthday present for a friend's party.  They told the child that it was his decision on how to spend the money and they would take him to the stores he wanted to go to.  The child asked to be taken to the toy store and spent 80% of the money on a toy (the parents were freaking out, but they let him do it).  When it came time for school and the birthday party, the child didn't get new shoes and bought his friend some small gift.  But he learned his lesson.

Long story short, the parents used/modified this system all the way into high school (and eventually wrote a book about it) so that their children learned the value of money, how to budget and find "deals" (i.e. shopping at goodwill).  Both kids worked through college and paid for their first cars with cash.  This is a good example of parents letting their children fail in a safe environment.  It's also easier to do this type of thing with only 2-3 kids (i.e. most protestant families) but still, where there's a will, there's a way.
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Trads Losing Their Children to the World
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2018, 02:03:42 PM »
I just want to say, that if I had a special "Moderator's Choice" award to give to 12 threads each year, giving them special prominence on the home page, etc. this thread would be getting one.

This is about the most important subject there is today, and it's a subject that hits very close to home for me, being a family man myself.
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: Trads Losing Their Children to the World
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2018, 02:10:34 PM »
From my 60+ years experience, 39 years as a wild man,  25+ years as a traditionalist, and of those 25 years, 17 years as a father, I know the world side very well.  I was a king in that world, an alfa male wolf, now I am a shepherd. Domesticated wolves make good shepherds of daughters, because they know all the male tricks and in my case I know the female weaknesses. I have almost all girls, 5+, and few boys. Below is a list of the errors that I see parents making today , but first, I will speak of a family which is

the example of what a Catholic family can accomplish and the goal:

I have known a family of 10+ children, the mother is the one that really raised the children in the faith. She homeschooled them to the 7th to 9th grade, and  by the providence of God, people gave her the money to pay for the education of all the children from 7th, 8th, 9th till graduation from high school. They all went to SSPX schools. She was very strict with the children and taught them the faith. She slaved over the children all her life and the children knew it. She was not the loving type in the sense of communicating her love verbally, but she showed it in her actions. All her children are now married to what I consider excellent wives and husbands,  I could not ask for better for my children, in fact, I think it would be difficult to find the same quality. In the case of this woman, she did her job and God provided her with whatever she needed.  One gift from God was that all the boys ( and the girls) were put to work by someone else (In many cases, the same person who later paid their education) from the time they were old enough to hold the other end of a 2x4, or fold clothes. As they grew in their working knowledge they became professionals in many fields. The mother always relied on God's Providence to provide what she could not, and she worked like a slave. God gave her everything. She was an example to my wife and I. She was strict, but there is much more to it, than being strict.

My list of the errors that I see parents making today

#1 -  they do not know the why of the faith, and thus they teach the children the faith by force, or send them to a teacher. I call this the "ask Fr." syndrome, anything you want to know just ask Father. Their knowledge of religion is superficial, and never gets past it, because they can just ask Father. The children's faith will be just as superficial, never having learned the "why's", and as soon as it is challenged, they go with the world.
#2 - the parents do the same with everything else one needs to know about life. They do not teach the why's of working, life (our purpose in life), politics/government, manners, civility, culture...
#3 - the parents do not talk to their children nor listen to what they are talking about, nor observe how their children behave with their peers and adults. Thus they know nothing about their own children.
#4 -  Some trad parents are so preoccupied with teaching the faith to strangers (even writing books, and lecturing) about subjects  like Novus Ordo heresy, sedevacantes, Jews, Masons..... , while they pay no attention to what they can control, their children.
#5 - mothers (and fathers) because they were lucky to find a good mate by "cheating" (going out with persons of the opposite sex by themselves. Having pre-marital kissing, fondling, intercourse), think that their children will have the same luck. So, they allow their children to use the same methods. This is a big one, very common for all the wrongs the children fall into.

I'll leave it that that for now.









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Offline wallflower

Re: Trads Losing Their Children to the World
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2018, 03:02:21 PM »
Quote from: Last Tradhican on October 30, 2018, 02:10:34 PM
#1 -  they do not know the why of the faith, and thus they teach the children the faith by force, or send them to a teacher. I call this the "ask Fr." syndrome, anything you want to know just ask Father. Their knowledge of religion is superficial, and never gets past it, because they can just ask Father. The children's faith will be just as superficial, never having learned the "why's", and as soon as it is challenged, they go with the world.
#2 - the parents do the same with everything else one needs to know about life. They do not teach the why's of working, life (our purpose in life), politics/government, manners, civility, culture...
#3 - the parents do not talk to their children nor listen to what they are talking about, nor observe how their children behave with their peers and adults. Thus they know nothing about their own children.


#1 is very important to us. And #2 by extension. Mainly it's because I remember my own parents relearning the Faith and explaining to us as they learned. Those things always stuck with me more than anything I learned in a book. It doesn't have to feel like a Catechism class or a sermon and it shouldn't really; just having these discussions as a normal part of family life goes a long way. It feels like it takes a lot of thought and wisdom to converse this way but that's where parents learn to put a lot of confidence in the Holy Ghost! I think #3 naturally happens when working on #1-2 because such discussions build relationships and each learns how the other thinks. 

"Ask Father" syndrome sounds like a good way to put it. With parents sending their children to schools and working all day, then being too tired when they are all gathered in the evenings, it's too easy for parents to forget that we are the primary educators. Fatigue or laziness tempts us to depend too much on our authority over the children and not enough on our role as teachers. We can mentally check out while yelling at kids and forcing them to do what we want but it takes real mental and physical engagement to teach.  
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