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Author Topic: Trads and feminism  (Read 3510 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Trads and feminism
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2018, 08:37:23 PM »
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  • Hi Seraphina,
    There are definitely exceptions to every rule, for sure.  Sometimes life throws you a curve ball, especially nowadays.  Mostly what I'm talking about are ideals and the "perfect" scenario, especially for point #2.  However, there's no reason that women can't follow pts #1 and #3, no matter where they're living.


    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #31 on: July 02, 2018, 09:32:45 PM »
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  • Hi Seraphina,
    There are definitely exceptions to every rule, for sure.  Sometimes life throws you a curve ball, especially nowadays.  Mostly what I'm talking about are ideals and the "perfect" scenario, especially for point #2.  However, there's no reason that women can't follow pts #1 and #3, no matter where they're living.
    I suspect more exceptions that you think.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #32 on: July 02, 2018, 10:04:05 PM »
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  • What is the purpose of your comment other than to prove your hatred of men once again?  Just like on the other thread, you assume you know how many exceptions I have in mind...which you don’t ...Most of your comments are either off-topic or divisive.  I wish you would act more mature because I’m sure you have much to offer this debate.  As it is now, your salty attitude prevents you from any meaningful contribution.

    Offline jvk

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #33 on: July 03, 2018, 05:48:07 AM »
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  • What a good thread!

    Feminism is so deep-rooted in society...how can traditional Catholic women NOT be infected/affected by it?  How many of our daily activities that we do without thinking about are things that declare out independence from men?  I can think of several:

    voting
    driving
    college education

    I'm not saying it's practical to not drive, just that it aids a woman's independence from her husband or father. 

    And voting...well, how many of you ladies vote?  And yet, we're told that it's a mans job to run society (or in this case, rebuild it!)  So maybe I'm archaic, but the idea that women are "equal" to men smacks of modernism to me.  We're not equal physically--and no offense, there are exceptions--but often not mentally either.  Not in the same clear-cut, logical way men are.  We're smarter in different ways.  And again, no offense to the men, but we're not equal emotionally either.  Which is how God designed it, because we are meant for different roles in life--in the home.

    As far as a college education, well, of course there are exceptions.  But they're rare.  I myself have a Bachelors degree (RN).  I wish I'd never gotten it.  If I could go back and redo that time, I would.  Bp Williamson says women don't belong at Universities, and he's right.  I imbibed so many feminist ideas at that time--all without realizing it.  The first 5 years of our marriage were miserable because of it.  I argued with my husband all the time.  I FINALLY realized what was going on and have since taken steps to correct it, but I still struggle against those evil feminist ideas.

    Satan certainly had the right idea.  He went after Eve, and he's going after women.  Why?  Because if you destroy the heart, you destroy the home.

    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #34 on: July 03, 2018, 07:40:09 AM »
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  • What a good thread!

    Feminism is so deep-rooted in society...how can traditional Catholic women NOT be infected/affected by it?  How many of our daily activities that we do without thinking about are things that declare out independence from men?  I can think of several:

    voting
    driving
    college education

    I'm not saying it's practical to not drive, just that it aids a woman's independence from her husband or father.

    And voting...well, how many of you ladies vote?  And yet, we're told that it's a mans job to run society (or in this case, rebuild it!)  So maybe I'm archaic, but the idea that women are "equal" to men smacks of modernism to me.  We're not equal physically--and no offense, there are exceptions--but often not mentally either.  Not in the same clear-cut, logical way men are.  We're smarter in different ways.  And again, no offense to the men, but we're not equal emotionally either.  Which is how God designed it, because we are meant for different roles in life--in the home.

    As far as a college education, well, of course there are exceptions.  But they're rare.  I myself have a Bachelors degree (RN).  I wish I'd never gotten it.  If I could go back and redo that time, I would.  Bp Williamson says women don't belong at Universities, and he's right.  I imbibed so many feminist ideas at that time--all without realizing it.  The first 5 years of our marriage were miserable because of it.  I argued with my husband all the time.  I FINALLY realized what was going on and have since taken steps to correct it, but I still struggle against those evil feminist ideas.

    Satan certainly had the right idea.  He went after Eve, and he's going after women.  Why?  Because if you destroy the heart, you destroy the home.
    How does voting make a woman non-dependent on her husband? I personally don’t vote, but I have never been able to just vote for the lesser of two evils. If I did vote I’d still look to my husband for guidance, and a good political debate. I can totally agree with college, and can honestly say I’ve never seen any good of it come from my girl friends who went. ( I know that’s not the case for every women) 
    My question is wouldn’t it be easier for husbands to just give house hold allowances? I mean something that would cover food, children’s needs, and something for the wife for her up keep on her appearance, or have some fun? That way he still has control on whole, but everyone’s needs are met.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #35 on: July 03, 2018, 08:13:35 AM »
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  • Quote
    How does voting make a woman non-dependent on her husband? I personally don’t vote, but I have never been able to just vote for the lesser of two evils. If I did vote I’d still look to my husband for guidance, and a good political debate.
    I know you're talking about a fun debate regarding politics, but for many couples, politics can be quite divisive.  There should be 1 vote per family because anything else is a potential dividing factor.  The family should be a unit, all in agreement, all in unison.  If it's not, the husband has the final say.

    It used to be that ONLY men who owned property could vote.  The reason being that one who owns property has a vested interest in how politics, taxes, etc affected society.  All the others who didn't own property could be easily manipulated (like they are today) because they don't understand how life really works.  

    Take for example, the common socialist theme seen by hollywood and heard by the media - the evil, corrupt businessman.  Ok, now there ARE many corrupt businessmen, so it's not a bad character to show in movies, but the "avg joe" who owns a plumbing business, or an insurance office is NOT the same thing as a CEO of a Fortune 500 company.  A typical small business owner only has a business because he sacrificed many, many things to build that business and then the media lumps him into 'corp corruption' when businesses get tax breaks.  Meanwhile, most people have NO IDEA the dedication, time, energy, RISKS, STRESS, and non-stop work it takes to build and run a business.  If they did, they'd have more appreciation for a small business.

    Aside from that, it could still be argued that only those who own businesses/property should vote.  All others don't have a real-life concept of economics, health insurance, etc.

    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #36 on: July 03, 2018, 08:25:56 AM »
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  • I know you're talking about a fun debate regarding politics, but for many couples, politics can be quite divisive.  There should be 1 vote per family because anything else is a potential dividing factor.  The family should be a unit, all in agreement, all in unison.  If it's not, the husband has the final say.

    It used to be that ONLY men who owned property could vote.  The reason being that one who owns property has a vested interest in how politics, taxes, etc affected society.  All the others who didn't own property could be easily manipulated (like they are today) because they don't understand how life really works.  

    Take for example, the common socialist theme seen by hollywood and heard by the media - the evil, corrupt businessman.  Ok, now there ARE many corrupt businessmen, so it's not a bad character to show in movies, but the "avg joe" who owns a plumbing business, or an insurance office is NOT the same thing as a CEO of a Fortune 500 company.  A typical small business owner only has a business because he sacrificed many, many things to build that business and then the media lumps him into 'corp corruption' when businesses get tax breaks.  Meanwhile, most people have NO IDEA the dedication, time, energy, RISKS, STRESS, and non-stop work it takes to build and run a business.  If they did, they'd have more appreciation for a small business.

    Aside from that, it could still be argued that only those who own businesses/property should vote.  All others don't have a real-life concept of economics, health insurance, etc.
    Oh trust me! My husband and I have had our fair share of divisive debates. We hardly agree on anything political. I still consider a heated debate a good one. 
    The reasons you mention are another reason I don’t vote. I’m a productive member of society by raising wholesome kids, and being there for my husband. Plus, the things I do for community, but I don’t pay taxes. My husband is the business owner, and head of house. I may not agree with his political stances at times, but he does actually get the finally say.

    Offline SusanneT

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #37 on: July 03, 2018, 12:29:28 PM »
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  • I am so glad to read other women having the courage to say what they think and what is right in direct contravention of feminist ideology. 

    The family is a unit and the head of that unit is the husband / father. Whatever goes on in terms of debate inside the family, he represents it to the wider world and that includes in my view voting. I would give the head of every family a vote for himself and another for his wife and any other adult daughters. 

    I am torn on education because whilst I generally support the idea that girls education should be focused on the home, the nursery and on Christ I think we do need highly educated women in some specific roles - most especially medicine. But I strongly disagree with girls living outside of parental control and would not allow my daughters to go away to college. 


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #38 on: July 03, 2018, 12:46:22 PM »
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  • Nursing and teaching (but not high school and maybe not middle school) is a natural area for women to be.  Or accounting, librarian, gardening.  Or other health areas.  ...not trying to make an exhaustive list, but most other professions are contrary to women’s natural talents and are better performed by men. 

    Also, women, even if they have a natural talent, shouldn’t be in men dominant fields.  *Ideally*

    Offline jvk

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #39 on: July 04, 2018, 10:00:49 AM »
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  • Nursing USED to be a natural area for women to be.  Having been there, though, I can tell you it's a very feminist field now. 

    Example: RN's used to wear white dress uniforms and be expected to stand for the doctors.  If such a thing happened today...I think the other RN's would have heart attacks! 

    We were told in nursing school that the doctors (implied men) were NOT better.  We do NOT have to give our seats up.  Scrubs (pants) are ok.  Wearing skirts is bad.  And so on and so forth. 

    And then of course, there's the big push for "murses" (male nurses).  Which in a crisis area--ICU, ER, flight truama, etc--may not be such a bad idea.  But for the empathy of floor nursing?  Creepy.  If I had to go back and do it again I'd stick to being a nurses aide.

    And the reason I went to college?  My dad insisted on it.  I HAD to have a college education.  Even though I told him all through high-school I didn't really want to; he demanded it.  His mother would have been considered a feminist; it's amazing how one woman can affect subsequent generations so much!  The high importance of eradicating feminism in our homes and hearts!

    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #40 on: July 04, 2018, 11:19:01 AM »
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  • Nursing and teaching (but not high school and maybe not middle school) is a natural area for women to be.  Or accounting, librarian, gardening.  Or other health areas.  ...not trying to make an exhaustive list, but most other professions are contrary to women’s natural talents and are better performed by men.

    Also, women, even if they have a natural talent, shouldn’t be in men dominant fields.  *Ideally*
    I homeschool k-12.  Is that feminist?  I dont think so.  I can certainly do a better job than the teachers in public school, and protect my children's souls to boot.
    .
    Accounting?  No thanks.  Give me algebra any day of the week!  :)  some women handle math better than others.  This does not make them feminist because they use the talents God gave them.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #41 on: July 04, 2018, 11:20:08 AM »
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  • I have an intellectual understanding of the desirability of patriarchy.  Not only feminism, but original sin, are obstacles to living out what I know is right.

    I don't expect to ever obey and respect my husband as much I think I should, no matter how much I try.  This is just the human condition.

    Yes.  We all recognize God's authority, but most of us fail to obey on a regular basis.  It's called fallen human nature and sin.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #42 on: July 04, 2018, 11:26:34 AM »
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  • TxTrad,
    If you read my post VERY CAREFULLY you would see that what I wrote, and what you wrote, are in agreement.  

    I was pointing out that, historically, women were NEVER involved in teaching young men after the 5th/6th grade.  Once young men reach that age, they need to be taught by men.  Your "disagreement" was a situation of homeschool, which is not anywhere close to what I was talking about.

    Secondly, I mentioned accounting as a possible job and you responded "some women handle math better than others.  This does not make them feminist because they use the talents God gave them."

    Well, no crap!  Some women are better at math, which is WHY I SUGGESTED ACCOUNTING.  (If you don't know, accounting has lots of math).

    Both your statements are 'manufactured fights' as I call them.  Or, you just have poor reading comprehension.  Either way, it explains why you and Croix got along so well...you constantly disagree with people for stupid reasons.

    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #43 on: July 04, 2018, 11:35:58 AM »
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  • TxTrad,
    If you read my post VERY CAREFULLY you would see that what I wrote, and what you wrote, are in agreement.  

    I was pointing out that, historically, women were NEVER involved in teaching young men after the 5th/6th grade.  Once young men reach that age, they need to be taught by men.  Your "disagreement" was a situation of homeschool, which is not anywhere close to what I was talking about.

    Secondly, I mentioned accounting as a possible job and you responded "some women handle math better than others.  This does not make them feminist because they use the talents God gave them."

    Well, no crap!  Some women are better at math, which is WHY I SUGGESTED ACCOUNTING.  (If you don't know, accounting has lots of math).

    Both your statements are 'manufactured fights' as I call them.  Or, you just have poor reading comprehension.  Either way, it explains why you and Croix got along so well...you constantly disagree with people for stupid reasons.
    I don't mean to berate, only to distinguish.
    .
    1. I don't see "historically" anywhere in your post.
    2. You did not distinguish between homeschool and non-homeschool.
    3. Accounting requires about 3rd grade math (adding and subtracting, and a little multiplication and division).
    4. I may have reading comprehension issues, but I believe I read your post correctly, even after reading it SLOWLY, as you suggested.
    5. I would further state that if a woman has a natural ability for the sciences, she should use them.  For example, Madame Curie.
    .
    "Nursing and teaching (but not high school and maybe not middle school) is a natural area for women to be.  Or accounting, librarian, gardening.  Or other health areas.  ...not trying to make an exhaustive list, but most other professions are contrary to women’s natural talents and are better performed by men.

    Also, women, even if they have a natural talent, shouldn’t be in men dominant fields.  *Ideally*"

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Trads and feminism
    « Reply #44 on: July 04, 2018, 12:13:08 PM »
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  • You just like to argue for argument's sake.  Good day.