Author Topic: Traditionalism in France  (Read 3984 times)

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Offline ServantOfTheAlmighty

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Traditionalism in France
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2011, 12:51:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: love alabama
    Quote from: ServantOfTheAlmighty
    France's Natalist Policies slideshow

    Look at all the benefits for families!


    Well thats good.

    what about the USA?


    Tax rebate per child and food stamps.

    Offline PereJoseph

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    Traditionalism in France
    « Reply #16 on: November 11, 2011, 07:38:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    They arrogant and clearly inclined towards conformity with feminist and liberal attitudes as their attitudes towards dress prove.


    Nah, the sedevacantists are great and certainly more intellectually rigorous and integrated than Catholics in the US.

    As for the assertion of French arrogance, it seems to be de rigueur for Anglos, whether United-Statesians, British, or Canadian*, to accuse all the French of arrogance.  As for this pervading French arrogance, I am yet to hear a comprehensive description of its causes and dynamics.

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    It can't be so great there if even Marine Le Pen is pro-abortion.


    Complete non sequitur.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Traditionalism in France
    « Reply #17 on: November 11, 2011, 08:47:46 AM »
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  • Quote from: PereJoseph
    Complete non sequitur.


    Is it?  Feminism is pervasive in France, otherwise Marine Le Pen would take a different position.  France is rotten.  Worse than America, no matter how much you hate to hear it, you know it's the truth.

    I've experienced the French arrogance first-hand, and I've seen the way they put other French speakers in key positions.  They are contemptuous, arrogant, not all that bright, and worst of all they confuse their French attitudes for sensus fidei.

    It doesn't surprise me the cult of reason arose in France, because they're highly unreasonable people.


    Offline PereJoseph

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    Traditionalism in France
    « Reply #18 on: November 11, 2011, 09:17:24 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: PereJoseph
    Complete non sequitur.


    Is it?  Feminism is pervasive in France, otherwise Marine Le Pen would take a different position.


    Oh, yes, Marine Le Pen's existence is clearly a discredit to all of the traditional Catholics in France who are against her... I have a question.  How do you reason that Marine Le Pen's candidacy in le Front National somehow dislodges France into a ranking below the US in the course of nations ?

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    France is rotten.  Worse than America, no matter how much you hate to hear it, you know it's the truth.


    I think you're completely wrong and don't sympathise with your sentiments in the slightest.

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    I've experienced the French arrogance first-hand...


    How ?  And from whom ?  And how is this representative of the entire people ?

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    ..and I've seen the way they put other French speakers in key positions.


    Well, when you need somebody competent for a job, whatever it is, and you run an international organisation, you're not just going to go to anybody...  :cheers:

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    They are contemptuous...


    Of what ?  And you are going to have to include examples that apply to all of the French, not just the revolutionaries, otherwise your analysis of the French in general is... well, not an analysis of the French in general...  :scratchchin:

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    ...arrogant...


    How ?

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    not all that bright...


    Ha !  If you say so.  :laugh1:

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    ...worst of all they confuse their French attitudes for sensus fidei.


    Could you give an example and explain the error contained in your example ?

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    It doesn't surprise me the cult of reason arose in France, because they're highly unreasonable people.


    You seem to have developed a blatantly prejudicial and partisan hatred of the French, and it seems to have very little relevance to me, being your own private affair.  What seems so clear to you just seems so clear to you, but I disagree without giving dissonance to my cognitions.  :pop:

    If you want to discuss the problems of the Revolution and why the Eldest Daughter of the Church was cursed in the way it still is, or if you want to discuss the French character with knowledge rather than anecdotes, or if you want to discuss the mysterious meta-historical role of France in the unfolding of the design du bon Dieu unto Our Lord's return, I'm open to those discussions.  If you want me to bend my mind to conform to your feelings at the expense of my own positions and patriotic sentiments regarding my people's mother country, however, then you should think again.

    And before you accuse me of proving all of your accusations, just consider that your accusations (and belief in their confirmation) are unfalsifiable in this instance.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Traditionalism in France
    « Reply #19 on: November 11, 2011, 09:26:26 AM »
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    Could you give an example and explain the error contained in your example ?


    I've seen the bourgeois arrogance and dishonesty first-hand.  Something that is slightly outside the bounds of propriet for them becomes an excuse to act with disgusting arrogance and dishonesty.  The French are conformists, for that reason, it's not a good place to grow up.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #20 on: November 11, 2011, 09:28:59 AM »
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  • Even the Republican party in the US is nominally pro-life.  A right-wing party in France with marginal support can't even manage to have a pro-life leader?  That shows you what the attitudes of the French people are.  We've discussed this before, the widespread corruption of French family morality began earlier than in other places.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #21 on: November 11, 2011, 11:01:52 AM »
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  • Probably a good way to measure the corruption of a society is by the way they treat vices as though they were virtues.  

    In some places they treat pride as a virtue.  Other places they treat unctuousness as one.  Some places make greed a virtue.  Others value sloth.  Some value coldness, dissimulation and  are always ready to excuse perfidy.  Some treat moral laxity as a sign of virtue.  Others treat obsequiousness to women as one.  Some see drunkenness as a rite of passage.  etc.

    Offline Raoul76

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    Traditionalism in France
    « Reply #22 on: November 11, 2011, 11:59:47 PM »
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  • Telesphorus said:
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    I've experienced the French arrogance first-hand, and I've seen the way they put other French speakers in key positions.  They are contemptuous, arrogant, not all that bright, and worst of all they confuse their French attitudes for sensus fidei.

    It doesn't surprise me the cult of reason arose in France, because they're highly unreasonable people.


    The irony is rich.

    Where did Protestantism arise again, Tele?

    The kind of French you're talking about are not the Catholics, for the most part, though not all Catholics are perfect.

    So I would say with the French, the potential is bottomless, limitless, these people have the deepest souls of anyone, in general.  That is why they are so prone to intellectual error, because they have very profound souls and are  smart.  Even when they give into physical sin, they intellectualize it.  

    The fact that they are chauvinistic and protect their countrymen is a virtue, not a fault.  That is why they will be the first to break out of the Americanist globalized stranglehold and learn to protect their borders once again.  

    I would rather be a slave on the bottom rung in France, then to be the big boss in America.  And that is no exaggeration.  Just as I'd rather be the lowest peon in heaven than the king of hell.
    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS


    Offline Raoul76

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    Traditionalism in France
    « Reply #23 on: November 12, 2011, 12:02:13 AM »
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  • Telesphorus said:
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    Is it?  Feminism is pervasive in France, otherwise Marine Le Pen would take a different position.  France is rotten.  Worse than America, no matter how much you hate to hear it, you know it's the truth.


    Pray tell, what does this have to do with the French people?  Do you enjoy it when the French blame you for Obama or GW Bush?  Then why do you think Marine Le Pen somehow reflects on them?  

    I'm sorry if this "declenches" -- as the French say -- another Tele avalanche of invective, but I had to say something.
    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Traditionalism in France
    « Reply #24 on: November 12, 2011, 12:34:23 AM »
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  • Let's get this straight, Marine Le Pen, someone who will almost certainly never be elected to high office but whose party was once praised by traditionalists, is pro-abortion, and that's equivalent to the Republicans and Democrats?  She's the equivalent of a third party here.  When the traditionalist party once favored by traditionalists is pro-abortion, then you have a serious problem.

    But it's nothing that people like the French and delusional people can't brush aside, as they always do when called on their immorality.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #25 on: November 12, 2011, 12:40:09 AM »
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  • I'm pretty sure Raoul himself has spoken of the trend among trads in France to believe they must "adapt" or become irrelevant, or something to that effect.  Some traditionalism!

    But a sentimental attachment to French languor is enough to overcome reason and common sense.


    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #26 on: November 12, 2011, 08:22:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    I'm pretty sure Raoul himself has spoken of the trend among trads in France to believe they must "adapt" or become irrelevant, or something to that effect.  Some traditionalism!

    But a sentimental attachment to French languor is enough to overcome reason and common sense.


    Its true that Raoul is fascinated with the French, maybe  a little to much for any of our intimate tastes. But its not like he's a Saudi descendent, or of Russian descent, whose is randomly interested in their culture- he does have Polish blood, and with that a heavy French influence. If you don't have it, you probably wont understand it very easily.

    However, if there's one thing about Raoul,  he definitely doesn't talk about becoming "relevant"- look at his stance on Action Française. I'm sure they're a much stronger and more popular movement that many Trads flock to because of its very popularity and possible strength. Raoul constantly points out the fact that they are very Gallican-like, and that their actions show them to be more interested in state over God, though they would try to pretend to be otherwise. So you're flat out wrong here Mr. Tele.

    Honestly, I'm wondering if your bias against French has more to do with trying to rile up people on this board (Mike), as opposed to an, seemingly, isolated confrontation with a French person (American French?)

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #27 on: November 12, 2011, 12:19:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Honestly, I'm wondering if your bias against French has more to do with trying to rile up people on this board (Mike), as opposed to an, seemingly, isolated confrontation with a French person (American French?)


    He wasn't an American.  He was from France.  Anyway, many people have attested to the attitudes of the SSPX French.  I'm not trying to rile up anyone, I'm pointing out that France is in pretty bad straights.  I recall Jehanne once calling up the SSPX to talk about moving to France.  It shows that there's too much idealization of France.  I'm not sure here in America we can understand the level of conformity in that society and the level of scorn Catholics face.  As I said, if your right-wing nationalist party that was formerly praised by traditionalists has changed its position on abortion, it shows there's a real problem with the society.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #28 on: November 12, 2011, 12:20:39 PM »
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  •  
    Quote
    Raoul constantly points out the fact that they are very Gallican-like, and that their actions show them to be more interested in state over God, though they would try to pretend to be otherwise. So you're flat out wrong here Mr. Tele.


    So he is allowed to criticize the French, and I am not?  Is that it?  

    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #29 on: November 12, 2011, 01:51:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote
    Raoul constantly points out the fact that they are very Gallican-like, and that their actions show them to be more interested in state over God, though they would try to pretend to be otherwise. So you're flat out wrong here Mr. Tele.


    So he is allowed to criticize the French, and I am not?  Is that it?  


    No Leonard- thats not it at all. It just seems as if you're talking into the wind sometimes though. I agree, people idealize France sometimes. But your position goes too far; sort of as if you see something wrong that bothers you, you will counter it, but then go even further in your refutation to where, and I've said this before, so that people fail to grasp the part where you're 'right'. PereJ answered and asked you questions. You failed to respond to the substance of what he was saying in my opinion.

     

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