Author Topic: Traditional teaching on how to grow in holiness (Read 2350 times)

Meg · « **on:** September 09, 2014, 02:58:23 PM »

I'm asking for advice on what the traditional teachings on growing in holiness. Last Sunday, in the homily that the Novus Ordo priest gave, he said that as we grow in our love of God, we grow in holiness. But that doesn't sound right. Of course he didn't say anything about sin, the need for confession and penance, or anything like that.

I think that as we grow in holiness, we grow in love of God, but I'm not sure that's right either. I'm thinking of writing to the priest, but I don't know how to really counter what he said, except to say that we cannot grow in holiness if we aren't in a state of grace. Though we can still love God if we are in mortal sin, but not grow in holiness. So growing in our love of God can't in and of itself lead to holiness, otherwise, what would be the need of the Church and sacraments? So I'd appreciate any advice in this matter.

I'm also wondering, in looking at the bigger picture, how the Novus Ordo priests justify, in their minds, only preaching about peace and love. Maybe they think that love is all that is really needed, and little else.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2014, 03:01:34 PM »

Holiness is in fact directly proportional to one's (supernatural) love for God. No, one cannot supernaturally love God while being in mortal sin.

Cantarella · « **Reply #2 on:** September 09, 2014, 04:44:22 PM »

Quote

I'm also wondering, in looking at the bigger picture, how the Novus Ordo priests justify, in their minds, only preaching about peace and love. Maybe they think that love is all that is really needed, and little else.

That is a direct consequence of Modernism and the "feel good" mentality that has snared most people, in which the truths of the Catholic religion (death, hell, sacrifice, cross) just do not fit in. "Don't tell them what they do NOT want to hear" is the new preaching way of most Catholic Novus Ordo priests.

In the process of being in harmony with the world, something fundamental has been lost: the profound realities of Catholicism (starting with the real damnation of Original Sin and ending with Hell for the reprobate). The Catholic Faith has been watered down to an unrecognizable level. That is why nobody really talks about Original Sin and Hell as actually realities anymore. Needless to say, this "feel good" new religion is not the same Catholic religion "of our Fathers" nor the True Faith of Christ.

Nobody wants to preach the Catholic truths anymore because they are in direct conflict with the Modern world. It just becomes too compromising, problematic, even dangerous (One can even get sued over it in the unfortunate times we live in!) No, Modernist people do not want to hear it. They just want to "feel good" and "be happy".

Meg · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2014, 05:26:13 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Holiness is in fact directly proportional to one's (supernatural) love for God. No, one cannot supernaturally love God while being in mortal sin.

Maybe this is difficult to answer, but is supernatural love a different sort of love than what we have, say, for people that we know in this world? How is it different?

Meg · « **Reply #4 on:** September 09, 2014, 05:39:23 PM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote

I'm also wondering, in looking at the bigger picture, how the Novus Ordo priests justify, in their minds, only preaching about peace and love. Maybe they think that love is all that is really needed, and little else.

That is a direct consequence of Modernism and the "feel good" mentality that has snared most people, in which the truths of the Catholic religion (death, hell, sacrifice, cross) just do not fit in. "Don't tell them what they do NOT want to hear" is the new preaching way of most Catholic Novus Ordo priests.

In the process of being in harmony with the world, something fundamental has been lost: the profound realities of Catholicism (starting with the real damnation of Original Sin and ending with Hell for the reprobate). The Catholic Faith has been watered down to an unrecognizable level. That is why nobody really talks about Original Sin and Hell as actually realities anymore. Needless to say, this "feel good" new religion is not the same Catholic religion "of our Fathers" nor the True Faith of Christ.

Nobody wants to preach the Catholic truths anymore because they are in direct conflict with the Modern world. It just becomes too compromising, problematic, even dangerous (One can even get sued over it in the unfortunate times we live in!) No, Modernist people do not want to hear it. They just want to "feel good" and "be happy".

I agree. Sometimes the NO priests do say that we have to be different from the world (worldy values), but the only example that they give is that we are supposed to love God and our neighbor. They don't veer from that standard line of thinking very often. But even atheists can love their neighbor, and non-Catholics do profess a love of God in their own non-Catholic way. Aren't we supposed to be different from them?

I don't see how they (the NO priests) can keep from being completely bored and tired of always preaching the same nonsense, day after day. I do recall, though, one NO priest that actually talked about sin and the need to go to confession. Well, there was a huge backlash from some of the parishioners who were offended by the priest talking about sin and confession. So I'm thinking that even if priests are brave and courageous and decide to preach the fullness of the faith, the parishioners will complain. Maybe it's a lost cause, but I'm going to start to encourage, with charity, the NO priests to teach the fullness of the faith. But I'll need help from the forum here to do this, since I have a lot to learn. Saint Athanasius and his followers defied the Arians. I'd like to know more about how they did it.

Iuvenalis · « **Reply #5 on:** September 09, 2014, 06:32:40 PM »

To answer your question, see the writings of St. Louis de Montfort

2Vermont · « **Reply #6 on:** September 09, 2014, 06:49:57 PM »

I think my response would be looking for opportunities to follow God's Will over my own ... in everything. From the little to the big. Of course, in order to do that one must know the Catholic Faith.

Great thread Meg. Look forward to hearing other responses.

poche · « **Reply #7 on:** September 09, 2014, 10:39:05 PM »

I think if you want to grow in holiness you should study the writings of the saints like St Theresa of Avila. In particular I recommend "The Way of Perfection."

clare · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2014, 01:28:06 AM »

MaterDominici · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2014, 02:23:35 AM »

Growth in holiness requires growth in virtue. Charity (love of God, also extending to love of neighbor) is the greatest of the theological virtues, so, yes, growing in love for God is growing in holiness.

A sermon that stops there, though, doesn't give much in the way of instruction. "How do we grow in our love for God?" is the question that they often fail to answer.
-Practicing the other virtues
-Frequenting the sacraments
-Avoiding sin

Another good book is the 12 Steps to Holiness and Salvation in which the "steps" are broken down into: faith, hope, love of God, love of neighbor, poverty, chastity, obedience, meekness or humility, mortification, recollection, prayer and self-denial or love of the cross.

Stubborn · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2014, 05:32:26 AM »

Quote from: Meg

I'm asking for advice on what the traditional teachings on growing in holiness. Last Sunday, in the homily that the Novus Ordo priest gave, he said that as we grow in our love of God, we grow in holiness. But that doesn't sound right. Of course he didn't say anything about sin, the need for confession and penance, or anything like that.

I think that as we grow in holiness, we grow in love of God, but I'm not sure that's right either. I'm thinking of writing to the priest, but I don't know how to really counter what he said, except to say that we cannot grow in holiness if we aren't in a state of grace. Though we can still love God if we are in mortal sin, but not grow in holiness. So growing in our love of God can't in and of itself lead to holiness, otherwise, what would be the need of the Church and sacraments? So I'd appreciate any advice in this matter.

I'm also wondering, in looking at the bigger picture, how the Novus Ordo priests justify, in their minds, only preaching about peace and love. Maybe they think that love is all that is really needed, and little else.

The NO has been preaching "luv, luv, luv" for 50 years. Without the true faith it is impossible to love God and neighbor - and the NO is not the true faith so don't listen to him.

How can a priest possibly love God while at the same time greatly and continually offend Him by celebrating a mockery of the Holy Sacrifice of Calvary? - He cannot. All he can possibly preach is a mockery of true Catholic "love of God and holiness" - and people sit there and listen to him, either trying to make sense of it like you are, or they agree with him while not having a flipping clue wth he is talking about.

If you really push him to explain, you'll most likely find out that ultimately, "God is love" will be all you get out of him because *that* is all the NO have, that is all the NO have to give, *that* is why they keep preaching "peace and luv" and keep preaching it and preaching it and preaching it - this is why those who listen to it are spiritually starving right to death, willingly.

If you are trying to understand about growing in holiness and love of God from the Novus Ordo point of view, you heard all the NO priest has on the subject, for a thorough explanation from the Catholic point of view, it could easily take many pages to explain because there are so many different ways we grow in both.

Remember why we are here; to 1) know, 2) love and 3) serve God in this world so as to be happy with Him in the next.

It works like this:
As we grow in our 1) knowledge of God, our 2) love of God is supposed to grow, as our love grows, so goes our desire to 3) serve and please and not offend God which will make us grow in holiness.

If you are not praying your Nine Day Novena to the Holy Ghost every day, you should.

Quote

Ninth Day

The gifts of the Holy Spirit perfect the supernatural virtues by enabling us to practice them with greater docility to divine inspiration. As we grow in the knowledge and love of God under the direction of the Holy Spirit, our service becomes more sincere and generous, the practice of virtue more perfect. Such acts of virtue leave the heart filled with joy and consolation and are known as Fruits of the Holy Spirit. These Fruits in turn render the practice of virtue more attractive and become a powerful incentive for still greater efforts in the service of God, to serve Whom is to reign.

Meg · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2014, 08:02:21 AM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

Growth in holiness requires growth in virtue. Charity (love of God, also extending to love of neighbor) is the greatest of the theological virtues, so, yes, growing in love for God is growing in holiness.

A sermon that stops there, though, doesn't give much in the way of instruction. "How do we grow in our love for God?" is the question that they often fail to answer.
-Practicing the other virtues
-Frequenting the sacraments
-Avoiding sin

Another good book is the 12 Steps to Holiness and Salvation in which the "steps" are broken down into: faith, hope, love of God, love of neighbor, poverty, chastity, obedience, meekness or humility, mortification, recollection, prayer and self-denial or love of the cross.

Oh thank you, Mater! I didn't know that St. Alphonsus wrote a book like this. He's one of my favorite saints. Yes, virtue is a part of growing in holiness, but I couldn't think about how to put it into words, if I write to the priest. Interestingly, I attended an NO parish (called St. Alphonsus) that celebrated St. Alphonsus feast day on Sunday before last. Well, the priest gave the usual peace and luv sermon about St. Alphonsus, but left out the fact that the reason that St. Alphonsus started his congregation of missioners is because he was concerned that country people were not properly catechized. Well, I wrote to the priest the next day, and reminded him of why St. Alphonsus started his mission, and I also complained, in a charitable way, about the priest concelebrating Masses with his new assistant priest. Well, he didn't write back, but I could tell that I struck a cord, because of what he wrote in the next bulletin (very negative reaction, which is unfortunate, because I was extremely charitable in my email to him). So even if a priest doesn't like what I tell him, he will have to read it and hopefully think about it eventually. I care very much about the sad situation in the NO church, and have pity for those who are stuck there. If there is a schism in the near future, it will be helpful for these priests to understand the fullness of the faith (though I'm a poor example of knowing what that is).

To get back to what you wrote, I appreciate that you gave the reminder that growing in holiness requires growth in virtue (Charity, which is love of God, extending to love of neighbor), so that indeed growing in love for God is also growing in holiness, and that a sermon that stops there doesn't give much in way of instruction. You're right in that they fail to answer how to grow in our love for God.

-Practicing the other virtues
-frequenting the sacraments
-avoiding sin

The twelve steps to holiness are helpful, too. I was thinking that I would have to write something (if I write to the priest) intellectual, but really, it can be kept quite simple, I think.

Meg · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2014, 08:16:56 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn

The NO has been preaching "luv, luv, luv" for 50 years. Without the true faith it is impossible to love God and neighbor - and the NO is not the true faith so don't listen to him.

How can a priest possibly love God while at the same time greatly and continually offend Him by celebrating a mockery of the Holy Sacrifice of Calvary? - He cannot. All he can possibly preach is a mockery of true Catholic "love of God and holiness" - and people sit there and listen to him, either trying to make sense of it like you are, or they agree with him while not having a flipping clue wth he is talking about.

If you really push him to explain, you'll most likely find out that ultimately, "God is love" will be all you get out of him because *that* is all the NO have, that is all the NO have to give, *that* is why they keep preaching "peace and luv" and keep preaching it and preaching it and preaching it - this is why those who listen to it are spiritually starving right to death, willingly.

If you are trying to understand about growing in holiness and love of God from the Novus Ordo point of view, you heard all the NO priest has on the subject, for a thorough explanation from the Catholic point of view, it could easily take many pages to explain because there are so many different ways we grow in both.

Remember why we are here; to 1) know, 2) love and 3) serve God in this world so as to be happy with Him in the next.

It works like this:
As we grow in our 1) knowledge of God, our 2) love of God is supposed to grow, as our love grows, so goes our desire to 3) serve and please and not offend God which will make us grow in holiness.

If you are not praying your Nine Day Novena to the Holy Ghost every day, you should.

Quote
Ninth Day

The gifts of the Holy Spirit perfect the supernatural virtues by enabling us to practice them with greater docility to divine inspiration. As we grow in the knowledge and love of God under the direction of the Holy Spirit, our service becomes more sincere and generous, the practice of virtue more perfect. Such acts of virtue leave the heart filled with joy and consolation and are known as Fruits of the Holy Spirit. These Fruits in turn render the practice of virtue more attractive and become a powerful incentive for still greater efforts in the service of God, to serve Whom is to reign.

I suppose that the NO priests are not taught the fullness of the faith in seminary, or if they were taught it, they are keeping mum about it. I get the feeling that the NO priests do love God. But it's a bit superficial, and those who attend the NO are worshiping in a superficial way, too. I wish that they would wake up. They are lulled into complacency, it would seem, by the luv, luv, luv sermons, which is combined with a dull and boring Mass. I appreciate recommending of the nine day novena to the Holy Ghost. Another concern, however (and this is going of the topic a bit) is that two parishes are starting( or thinking of starting) to offer a charismatic renewal program called "called and gifted." Very distressing.

I appreciate that you said that as we grow in our knowledge of God, our love of God is supposed to grow, and as our love grows, so does our desire to serve, please, and not offend him which will make us grow in holiness.

Meg · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2014, 08:19:08 AM »

Quote from: Iuvenalis

To answer your question, see the writings of St. Louis de Montfort

Which book in particular? I think that I have one of his books about the BVM somewhere in my pile of books.

Meg · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2014, 08:20:53 AM »

Quote from: poche

I think if you want to grow in holiness you should study the writings of the saints like St Theresa of Avila. In particular I recommend "The Way of Perfection."

I'll see if I can find this book at the library, or order it from Amazon. Thanks.