Author Topic: Traditional Catholic wife criteria (Read 5004 times)

Kephapaulos · « **on:** February 10, 2017, 11:25:33 AM »

hese are criteria I have as most other traditional Catholic men for a good Catholic wife:

1) She truly follows Catholic faith and morals.
2) She is open to the number of children God sends her.
3) She is a woman of the home.
4) She is obedient to her husband.
5) She dresses modestly.

I based the first three on the advice of a priest, the fourth from a friend, and the last one from me.

Is all this something too hard for Catholic women to follow or aspire to?

I suppose the criteria for a good Catholic husband would be:

1) He truly follows Catholic faith and morals.
2) He must have a good trade to support a family.
3) He is open to the number of children God sends.
4) He leads the family.
5) He has a sound decorum.

Both the wife and husband need a sense of self-sacrifice which is what I think it all comes down to as well.

Arsenius · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2017, 11:49:04 AM »

I know this might sound unbelievable to most of this forum (given the views expressed on the children thread), but I've never really had trouble meeting any young women that fulfill those five criteria in varying degrees - i.e., they might have all five spot on but there definitely a solid foundation on which one can build and focus on whatever needs improvement. About modesty, I really don't think you can write off a girl simply because she wears pants/shorts. Most girls around the world wear pants without the intention of being immodest; they're simply raised on it and they don't give it a second thought.

I would add another criteria that should ideally be fulfilled by both sexes. One must have a certain degree of savvy and experience with mundane and practical affairs. We are called to live in the world but not to partake in its spirit, to be as wise as serpents but simple as doves. I've met so many young trads (both sexes) who are so innocent/blissfully ignorant I feel that they would be eaten alive by society outside the chapel or cower in the fetal position once faced with the grim realities of modern life. Once upon a time, I was discerning a religious vocation and speaking to a priest who had spent several years in the world in the finance industry before entering seminary. His advice was to at least be familiar with practical everyday skills before even thinking of seminary - "Well, you should at least know how to balance a checkbook first."

I know plenty of nice guys, devout Catholic bachelors whose piety is admirable. Unfortunately, many of them don't seem to have stable sources of income and don't seem to have much motivation to addresss the practical aspects of married life.

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2017, 12:40:55 PM »

As Bishop Williamson constantly teaches us Trads here in 2017: we need to be connected to REALITY in all forms. That includes the truth (about God, about the Church, about the Mass, about how to get to heaven, about men and women's natures, about the Jєωs and other enemies of God, etc.) as well as the reality about natural things.

Negatively, we should toss the TV since it is the vehicle of propaganda and indoctrination by the enemies of God (тαℓмυdic Jєωs) who run Hollywood and own the media.

Positively, with no TV to waste our time we will necessarily have enough free time to embrace one or more rewarding, useful, and natural hobbies. Not so much rollerblading or stamp collecting, but more like second careers which don't pay much or don't pay enough to support you. Things like gardening, raising animals, how to fix various things, how to build various things, how to maintain various equipment, canning, cooking, sewing, knitting, working with leather, saving seeds, landscaping, etc.

But not just survival skills either -- skills like music, singing, poetry, writing books, etc. would also be fruitful and a better use of one's time than sitting in front of the TV or youtube.com.

His Excellency advocates moving away from the cities where possible, or at least keeping some connection to common sense and reality by supplementing your white collar job with some honest hard work like a garden. And certainly don't be afraid of work! If a career doesn't involve any real work (physical or mental), then don't pursue it!

Because another bit of wisdom states: if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
For example, putting your money in a magic place where it grows and grows 8% every year with no work required! That's why I don't believe in the stock market. It's gambling, it's rigged, it's unsustainable, and it's primed for a total collapse.

If literally ANYONE can do it, be suspicious. Be very suspicious. Because it obviously isn't sustainable.

If you aren't doing any real work for your $80,000 a year, don't be surprised when your manager discovers this and rectifies the situation by "downsizing" you. And good luck trying to convince another business to pay you $80,000 for doing nothing.

A career that could be "gracefully downgraded" to working for yourself would be a HUGE plus. Any job that could theoretically be done as a self-employed person is also something you could offer door-to-door to your neighbors at 1/2 the market rate if you were ever desperate. Imagine if a middle-manager did this: "For $200, I'll manage a project team of 10 people for a week." Expect a lot of, "No, thank you" responses. After all, who needs that kind of "work" done?

But a list of services people DO need done is as long as a list of Clinton crimes.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2017, 03:56:57 PM »

Quote from: Arsenius

I know this might sound unbelievable to most of this forum (given the views expressed on the children thread), but I've never really had trouble meeting any young women that fulfill those five criteria in varying degrees - i.e., they might have all five spot on but there definitely a solid foundation on which one can build and focus on whatever needs improvement. About modesty, I really don't think you can write off a girl simply because she wears pants/shorts. Most girls around the world wear pants without the intention of being immodest; they're simply raised on it and they don't give it a second thought.

I would add another criteria that should ideally be fulfilled by both sexes. One must have a certain degree of savvy and experience with mundane and practical affairs. We are called to live in the world but not to partake in its spirit, to be as wise as serpents but simple as doves. I've met so many young trads (both sexes) who are so innocent/blissfully ignorant I feel that they would be eaten alive by society outside the chapel or cower in the fetal position once faced with the grim realities of modern life. Once upon a time, I was discerning a religious vocation and speaking to a priest who had spent several years in the world in the finance industry before entering seminary. His advice was to at least be familiar with practical everyday skills before even thinking of seminary - "Well, you should at least know how to balance a checkbook first."

I know plenty of nice guys, devout Catholic bachelors whose piety is admirable. Unfortunately, many of them don't seem to have stable sources of income and don't seem to have much motivation to addresss the practical aspects of married life.

Most men and women may not fulfill the criteria, but the problem is also that most are not open to improvement according to them. My neck of the woods appears not to have the type of women you pointed out, Arsenius, particularly at my own SSPX chapel. Two girls there are more independent, two did not care to know me, and one is just obsessed about me and won't leave me and my friend alone. You and Matthew give me hope still.

Cantarella · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2017, 05:19:06 PM »

I had posted a link no long ago with a list of 12 "warning signs" for men wanting to find a wife:

Quote

"If you want to be happily married, discern women carefully. Being pretty, young, and Christian is not enough. She may be the most beautiful woman that you have ever seen, but turn away if you encounter any of the following:

1.“I am a strong independent woman.”

2.“My career comes first.”

3.“I don’t want to be ‘just a mom.‘”

4.“I’m not a bra-burning Feminist, but I do think Feminism has been a good thing.” (This is akin to the argument: “Planned Parenthood does some good things so let’s not condemn it.”)

5.She scorns films that aren’t Bechdel-approved.

6.She insists on paying her half of the tab.

7.She looks down on courtesies that you provide, such as opening the door, driving, and paying, as insults.

8.She advocates government policies that promote sterilization, Planned Parenthood, no-fault divorce, slut-walks, women’s reproductive rights, etc.

9.Profuse profanity. Every Feminist I have ever met has been generous with profanity. They love dropping the f-bomb, in particular. I suspect Feminists believe that this is “empowering” or makes them “like one of the guys.” In reality, it’s ugly and degrading.

10.She shows annoyance around babies or small children.

11.She makes fun of her father by mocking him.

12.She frequently uses the word “patriarchy,” but she is not referring to the bishops of Antioch, Moscow, or Constantinople.

http://maccabeesociety.com/never-date-a-feminist-12-warning-signs-for-young-men/

Cantarella · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2017, 05:28:14 PM »

Quote

I suppose the criteria for a good Catholic husband would be:

1) He truly follows Catholic faith and morals.
2) He must have a good trade to support a family.
3) He is open to the number of children God sends.
4) He leads the family.
5) He has a sound decorum

I agree with this list. Number 1 being the most important, of course. I would add he NOT having any addictions, which is a major red flag. Additions to anything, alcohol, drugs, video games, and other unchaste vices, too filthy to even mention here.

Also, not being "feminized", like the classic "pajama boy", but a real man who does not expect his wife to go to work, help pay the bills, equal house chores, believer in equal rights, etc....in sum, all the ultra-egalitarian nonsense of modern times.

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2017, 07:13:35 PM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote
I suppose the criteria for a good Catholic husband would be:

1) He truly follows Catholic faith and morals.
2) He must have a good trade to support a family.
3) He is open to the number of children God sends.
4) He leads the family.
5) He has a sound decorum

I agree with this list. Number 1 being the most important, of course. I would add he NOT having any addictions, which is a major red flag. Additions to anything, alcohol, drugs, video games, and other unchaste vices, too filthy to even mention here.

Also, not being "feminized", like the classic "pajama boy", but a real man who does not expect his wife to go to work, help pay the bills, equal house chores, believer in equal rights, etc....in sum, all the ultra-egalitarian nonsense of modern times.

I would hope that the man contributes to house chores, too. Otherwise, he's a spoiled child if he expects his wife to do all the cooking and cleaning.

St Ignatius · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2017, 07:39:27 PM »

Quote from: JezusDeKoning

I would hope that the man contributes to house chores, too. Otherwise, he's a spoiled child if he expects his wife to do all the cooking and cleaning.

And... next, I suppose you'll say that the wife is a spoiled brat if she doesn't leave her children alone while she changes the oil in the car, fixes the leaky roof, chops firewood, shovels the sidewalk of snow, fixes the lawnmower...

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2017, 08:03:50 PM »

Quote from: Cantarella

I had posted a link no long ago with a list of 12 "warning signs" for men wanting to find a wife:

Quote

"If you want to be happily married, discern women carefully. Being pretty, young, and Christian is not enough. She may be the most beautiful woman that you have ever seen, but turn away if you encounter any of the following:

1.“I am a strong independent woman.”

2.“My career comes first.”

3.“I don’t want to be ‘just a mom.‘”

4.“I’m not a bra-burning Feminist, but I do think Feminism has been a good thing.” (This is akin to the argument: “Planned Parenthood does some good things so let’s not condemn it.”)

5.She scorns films that aren’t Bechdel-approved.

6.She insists on paying her half of the tab.

7.She looks down on courtesies that you provide, such as opening the door, driving, and paying, as insults.

8.She advocates government policies that promote sterilization, Planned Parenthood, no-fault divorce, slut-walks, women’s reproductive rights, etc.

9.Profuse profanity. Every Feminist I have ever met has been generous with profanity. They love dropping the f-bomb, in particular. I suspect Feminists believe that this is “empowering” or makes them “like one of the guys.” In reality, it’s ugly and degrading.

10.She shows annoyance around babies or small children.

11.She makes fun of her father by mocking him.

12.She frequently uses the word “patriarchy,” but she is not referring to the bishops of Antioch, Moscow, or Constantinople.

http://maccabeesociety.com/never-date-a-feminist-12-warning-signs-for-young-men/

There are so many who have one of those characteristics, and so it should not be too hard to find virtuous women then.

AMDGJMJ · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2017, 08:04:49 PM »

Quote from: Kephapaulos

Most men and women may not fulfill the criteria, but the problem is also that most are not open to improvement according to them. My neck of the woods appears not to have the type of women you pointed out, Arsenius, particularly at my own SSPX chapel. Two girls there are more independent, two did not care to know me, and one is just obsessed about me and won't leave me and my friend alone. You and Matthew give me hope still.
Quote

It is true that there are many people out there who are not open to improving themselves and expect their partner to do all the compromising. Selflessness is certainly a virtue that is helpful to have a bit of before considering marriage, and both spouses need it in order to have a truly happy marriage life. All the same, I have met many good traditional Catholic women out there who follow all of these criteria completely and perhaps even a bit beyond.

Here is something that you might want to consider... The SSPX do not generally speak out against women wearing pants or shorter skirts as long as they fall to the knee. So, you will tend to find girls who wear pants and knee high skirts at many SSPX chapels.

I have noticed that a number of other places, including the CMRI and some independent chapels which I have been to, often speak out about women wearing longer dresses, and in turn, the women there tend to dress more unto that end. Just something to consider.

As for the girl who is obsessed with you... If she looks up to you and your friend THAT much perhaps God has allowed this for a reason. Maybe you could do her some good and help her become the sort of woman you might want her to be? Then, even if it is not meant for you both to be a couple you would have at least helped her for her future husband? No one is perfect and everyone has their faults. I have friends whose changed and became better Catholics because of their spouses.

You seem to be a good man. So, completely trust yourself into God's Hands and I am sure that He will work everything out in the best way possible for you. Here is a little something that a friend shared with me, and which I find very profound for those considering the married state. It helped me a lot when about a year ago when I had a terrible break-up. Hopefully it will help you too!

God bless!

Treatise attributed to Saint Anthony

Everyone longs to give himself completely to someone –
To have a deep soul relationship with another.
To be loved thoroughly and exclusively.
But God, to the Christian, says,
“No, not until you are satisfied with living for Me
And have an intensely personal and unique relationship
With me alone.
I love you, My child,
And until you discover that only in Me is your satisfaction,
You will not be capable of the perfect human relationship
That I have planned for you.
I want you to stop planning and stop wanting,
And allow Me to give you the most thrilling plan ever existing –
One that you cannot even imagine.
I want you to have the best.
Please allow me to bring it to you –
Just keep watching Me,
Expecting the greatest things –
Keep experiencing that satisfaction in Me,
Knowing that I Am –
Keep learning from and listening to the things that I tell you.
You must wait.
Don’t be anxious.
Don’t worry…
Don’t look around at the things others have gained for themselves
Or that I have given them.
Don’t look at the things you want.
Just keep looking to Me
Or you will miss what I want to show you.
And then,
When you are ready,
I will surprise you with a love far more wonderful
Than any you would ever dream of.
You see, until you are ready,
(And even now I desire to have you both ready at the same time)
Until you are both satisfied with Me
You won’t be able to experience
The love that exemplifies your relationship with Me –
And thus is perfect love.
And, dear one,
I want you to have this most wonderful love
I want you to have in the flesh
A picture of your relationship with Me
And to enjoy the everlasting union of beauty and love.
I am God.
Believe and be satisfied.”

_______________________________________________________________________
http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/2016/04/true-love-is-only-found-in-and-through.html

Cantarella · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2017, 08:11:19 PM »

Quote from: JezusDeKoning

Quote from: Cantarella
Quote
I suppose the criteria for a good Catholic husband would be:

1) He truly follows Catholic faith and morals.
2) He must have a good trade to support a family.
3) He is open to the number of children God sends.
4) He leads the family.
5) He has a sound decorum

I agree with this list. Number 1 being the most important, of course. I would add he NOT having any addictions, which is a major red flag. Additions to anything, alcohol, drugs, video games, and other unchaste vices, too filthy to even mention here.

Also, not being "feminized", like the classic "pajama boy", but a real man who does not expect his wife to go to work, help pay the bills, equal house chores, believer in equal rights, etc....in sum, all the ultra-egalitarian nonsense of modern times.

I would hope that the man contributes to house chores, too. Otherwise, he's a spoiled child if he expects his wife to do all the cooking and cleaning.

I'm curious since when in history, (before the raise of Feminism, that is) were husbands expected to cook and clean?

It seems to me that such expectation goes hand in hand with the Modernist usurpation of roles between the sexes.

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2017, 11:02:47 AM »

Quote from: St Ignatius

Quote from: JezusDeKoning
I would hope that the man contributes to house chores, too. Otherwise, he's a spoiled child if he expects his wife to do all the cooking and cleaning.

And... next, I suppose you'll say that the wife is a spoiled brat if she doesn't leave her children alone while she changes the oil in the car, fixes the leaky roof, chops firewood, shovels the sidewalk of snow, fixes the lawnmower...

When my husband is gone, I have to shovel the sidewalk and driveway. Although my oldest sons usually do it, But I have had to do it before. I can change a tire and have done it before because my husband wasn't with me. Although midway through a man did stop to help.

I have taught my sons to cook and clean. They can also change babies' diapers.

There is this belief that men aren't supposed to help out with household chores or "women's work," and women aren't supposed to do "men's work." This is a silly thing.

My grandparents lived on a farm. My grandmother hunted, chopped wood, killed chickens, fed hogs. My grandfather could braid my hair, cook, and was really good at cleaning the bathroom.

Being clean and productive around the house isn't delegated to just women. Being helpful and productive in maintaining a home isn't just delegated to men.

Women are supposed to be help mates to their husbands, not their slaves. Husbands are not just supposed to go out and work, hunt, and mess things up and then come home and demand attention and affection. This is not how God made us.

I have seen some really unhappy and abused wives in traditional circles. I have seen women with 10 or 12 children all under age 13 running around completely exhausted and frustrated because her husband won't change a diaper, give a kid a bath, or cook the dinner while she cleans up vomit. I have seen husbands go to work 10 hours a day and have to come home to shovel the driveway, fix the dryer, fix the leaky sink, and change the tail light bulb before the sun goes down or he can eat his dinner.

None of this is helpful or necessary. We are to help each other at all times. 90% of the time, I do all the cleaning, cooking, shopping, and educating the children. But sometimes I get sick or have to be somewhere else for something important. The same with my husband. It's just wrong to let the house go or the kids unfed and dirty because it's not your job.

Men and women are made differently, yes. And we were made to complement each other.

My husband thinks logically and systematically. I think more emotionally. If we didn't consult each other on raising the children, discipline, spending, etc, what a mess our family life would be. I know families right now that are an absolute mess because the husband doesn't listen to the wife and the wife doesn't listen to the husband.

Married life is a sacrifice for both husbands and wives. It's not just a place for husbands to be emotionally absent and disconnected because they are focusing on their careers or hobbies. And it's not a place for the wives to be materially disconnected by focusing on the rearing of the children.

I guess God just blessed me with a husband who is willing to help me when I am frustrated or tired. I guess God just blessed my husband with a wife who is perfectly willing to chop wood and run the tiller. I like to help my husband with those tasks, and I like to know that I won't fall apart if he gets sick or dies. And I'm glad to know that my children will be fed and clean if something happens to me.

Cantarella · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2017, 05:50:02 PM »

I agree with the woman who wrote in this image. I firmly believe in following traditional biblical roles as opposed to modern marital egalitarian teamwork.

I think everything works smoothly and everyone is happier when there are expected boundaries and clearly established male and female roles within the marriage. I do not see any "slavery" involved in any of the roles. I think that is a feminist lie and a way that foolish women victimize themselves. Daily tasks such as cooking, cleaning, and of course, looking after children, is not slavery, but part of the God's given role to women, that of being the nurturer, of bringing harmony and joy to the home and where women's natural qualities excel.

When usurpation occurs, it is recipe for disaster.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2017, 12:32:31 PM »

Quote from: AMDGJMJ

As for the girl who is obsessed with you... If she looks up to you and your friend THAT much perhaps God has allowed this for a reason. Maybe you could do her some good and help her become the sort of woman you might want her to be? Then, even if it is not meant for you both to be a couple you would have at least helped her for her future husband? No one is perfect and everyone has their faults. I have friends whose changed and became better Catholics because of their spouses.

She does not look up to us. She wants to control since my friend and I appear meek. She sort of ordered me to go with her to get something her parents' vehicle one time and got mad afterwhile when I would not see her anymore later at the shop her mother did business. I did not like also how she treated her sister and was not very responsive to something I was saying about current events. Another friend did not know who she was at first and could already tell something was off about her. She even tried contacting through my email it seems three times. This problem has been going on for pver six years, and it gets pretty annoying. Recently, after I left the Communion rail, I ended up passing by the pew she was in and just ended up having her in view as I went by and found her staring at me with googly eyes. That kind of thing has happened before. She should be focused on God and not on me during Mass. She was sort of going for my friend the following Sunday by talking with his mother. I wish she would just get the hint that I am not interested in her.

B from A · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2017, 04:53:19 PM »

Here's how my list has evolved over the years:

What I Want in a Man

Original List (age 22):
1. Handsome
2. Charming
3. Financially successful
4. A caring listener
5. Witty
6. In good shape
7. Dresses with style
8. Appreciates finer things
9. Full of thoughtful surprises
10. An imaginative, romantic lover

What I Want in a Man, Revised List (age 32):
1. Nice looking (prefer hair on his head)
2. Opens car doors, holds chairs
3. Has enough money for a nice dinner
4. Listens as much as talks
5. Laughs at my jokes
6. Carries bags of groceries with ease
7. Owns at least one tie
8. Appreciates a good home-cooked meal
9. Remembers birthdays and anniversaries
10. Seeks romance at least once a week

What I Want in a Man, Revised List (age 42):
1. Not too ugly (bald head OK)
2. Doesn't drive off until I'm in the car
3. Works steady - splurges on dinner out occasionally
4. Nods head when I'm talking
5. Usually remembers punch lines of jokes
6. Is in good enough shape to rearrange the furniture
7. Wears a shirt that covers his stomach
8. Knows not to buy champagne with screw-top lids
9. Remembers to put the toilet seat down
10. Shaves most weekends

What I Want in a Man, Revised List (age 52):
1. Keeps hair in nose and ears trimmed
2. Doesn't belch or scratch in public
3. Doesn't borrow money too often
4. Doesn't nod off to sleep when I'm venting
5. Doesn't re-tell the same joke too many times
6. Is in good enough shape to get off couch on weekends
7. Usually wears matching socks and fresh underwear
8. Appreciates a good TV dinner
9. Remembers my name on occasion
10. Shaves some weekends

What I Want in a Man, Revised List (age 62):
1. Doesn't scare small children
2. Remembers where bathroom is
3. Doesn't require much money for upkeep
4. Only snores lightly when asleep
5. Remembers why he's laughing
6. Is in good enough shape to stand up by himself
7. Usually wears clothes
8. Likes soft foods
9. Remembers where he left his teeth
10. Remembers that it is the weekend

What I Want in a Man, Revised List (age 72):
1. Breathing
2. Doesn't miss the toilet

[Sorry; I couldn't resist!]