Author Topic: Traditional Catholic Friendship (Read 11931 times)

MaterDominici · « **Reply #30 on:** August 17, 2014, 09:07:24 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: Ekim

What about a single mom of 13 who's husband works two jobs to make ends meet, She barely made it through highschool. She just can't homeschool.

She has a much bigger problem.

She doesn't exist.

"A single mom whose husband...?"

I don't think you're thinking very clearly; in this post or any of your other ones.

Why do I get the feeling you're on the outside looking in when it comes to living a typical "Trad" lifestyle? How many kids do you have, Ekim?

You're making the oldest mistake in the book, usually made by NON-TRADS. "If I stop using birth control, I'll end up with 15 kids!!!"

Just because you *could theoretically* means you *will* or that it's even *probable*. Experienced Trads know this.

I know very few Trads with 13 children.

Don't forget they're all under the age of 18 too.

Matthew · « **Reply #31 on:** August 17, 2014, 09:14:31 PM »

Ekim's super-duper-thumbs-up post utterly failed on several points:

1. He utterly failed to make the distinction between good-willed sinners (those who are trying) and those who are quite entrenched in their sins and/or bad habits.

2. We can't convert the world personally. That's the mistake the neo-SSPX is making, thinking they (a group of 500) can convert Rome to Tradition -- even though countless Romans are currently obstinate and of bad will.

3. Every worldly Catholic in the catalog will give you the "I don't want to be too isolated", "bunker mentality", and "light shine before men" arguments. But the fact is that these lukewarm Catholics don't have a lot of light to shine before anyone. They are indistinguishable from the lax Catholics and non-Catholics they associate with, and so they won't be converting anyone any time soon. However, they WILL be pulled down by their companions. (1 Cor 15:33)

4. He failed to address these points, some of which are scriptural:
(Wisdom 14:9) But to God the wicked and his wickedness are hateful alike.
* "Cast not your pearls before swine." (Scripture)
* "Water seeks its own level."
* "He who lies down with dogs rises up with fleas."
* "He who touches pitch is defiled with it." (Scripture)
1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not seduced: Evil communications corrupt good manners.

5. Priests have a job to convert the world. Every good priest (and ex-seminarian) knows the Soul of the Apostolate. For every minute spent "in the trenches" dealing with neo-pagans, you need X minutes of meditation/prayer/sacrifice to make your words and influence fruitful. Without that, you're just going to be dragged down to their level, which has happened to so many Novus Ordo priests. Once they give up their prayer life (daily meditation, Breviary, etc.), it's all over. Again, "worldly Catholics" will make the argument they need to "convert the world" as Christ commanded, but they spend WAY too much time having fun with worldlings, and far too little time filling up their spiritual tanks with meditation, sacrifice, and prayer.

Matthew · « **Reply #32 on:** August 17, 2014, 09:17:37 PM »

Quote from: Ekim

Traditional Catholics need to stop judging, labeling, and stereotyping everyone.

Yes, and that includes you.

You seem to be rash judging and assuming that every Catholic is guilty of doing the things you talk about.

OHCA · « **Reply #33 on:** August 17, 2014, 09:27:17 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Ekim's super-duper-thumbs-up post utterly failed on several points...

Ekim's post immediately sounded a lot like Frank the Fraud & Company to me.

The "conservative school" part sounded a lot more first-hand & less hypothetical than the "single mom whose husband" part. I wonder if Ekim would indulge me and share whether this "conservative school" is Catholic, protestant, or what it is.

I'm surprised that Nadir didn't call you a troll, Matthew. That's what she told The Trickster prior to his timely departure that she thought I am.
:smoke-pot:

MaterDominici · « **Reply #34 on:** August 17, 2014, 09:42:52 PM »

Quote from: OHCA

The "conservative school" part sounded a lot more first-hand & less hypothetical ...

Yet another turn of the emotional knife. You don't get to "pick" your public school so you're just making yourself feel better to describe it as conservative. In version B of the story, she shopped through 15 choices, but her (deceased) husband is never going to be able to pay for that carefully selected private, non-trad school.

I don't have a problem with hypothetical examples, but this scenario would never exist.

Mabel · « **Reply #35 on:** August 17, 2014, 09:44:12 PM »

I took something completely different from Ekim's post. I thought he (or she?) was referring to what is a large problem among some traditional Catholics.

Let's face it, there are a lot of traditionalists with problems. I've met some that insist on all females wearing sleeves to the wrist, wearing chapel veils to the grocery store, and using only OLV for homeschooling before you are a suitable companion for any member of their family. We severely offended a lady by asking her to dinner and not lunch, she was horrified at the suggestion. I was insulted at one of my first traditional masses because my first name was not identifiable to the other party as a saints name, and I was berated in front of other strangers. These things happen, I thought of Ekim's post as more of an insight into the trouble itself and not a commentary on Catholics who don't have such issues. Maybe I read things wrong? Maybe I'm coming from another angle? Who knows! :dancing:

I think perhaps the problem did not come from Ekim acknowledging that, ultimately these things are up to the parent, whose primary concern should be the morals of their children.

But for those with problems, and they do exist, most of them stem from a spiritual problem.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #36 on:** August 17, 2014, 10:07:52 PM »

Quote from: Mabel

I've met some that insist on all females wearing sleeves to the wrist, wearing chapel veils to the grocery store, and using only OLV for homeschooling before you are a suitable companion for any member of their family. We severely offended a lady by asking her to dinner and not lunch, she was horrified at the suggestion. I was insulted at one of my first traditional masses because my first name was not identifiable to the other party as a saints name, and I was berated in front of other strangers.

That made me laugh!

I don't doubt they exist because I have a connection to the internet, but thankfully I've never met this sort in person.

Matthew · « **Reply #37 on:** August 17, 2014, 10:24:25 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

Quote from: Mabel
I've met some that insist on all females wearing sleeves to the wrist, wearing chapel veils to the grocery store, and using only OLV for homeschooling before you are a suitable companion for any member of their family. We severely offended a lady by asking her to dinner and not lunch, she was horrified at the suggestion. I was insulted at one of my first traditional masses because my first name was not identifiable to the other party as a saints name, and I was berated in front of other strangers.

That made me laugh!

I don't doubt they exist because I have a connection to the internet, but thankfully I've never met this sort in person.

I'm the first one in line to castigate such Pharisaical Trads. I wish I could meet one IRL, so I could take them to task.

I'd doubt their existence, but for the fact that I've heard *different* stories from each Trad that offers anecdotal evidence. In other words, it's not the same urban legends going around and around. These people actually exist, and they vie with each other to see who can be the most outrageous and uncharitable.

Nadir · « **Reply #38 on:** August 18, 2014, 03:30:27 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: Nadir

Matthew, you seem a bit defensive. Did you think Ekim was correcting you?

No, but he's being very simplistic and judgmental and the thread needed some balance.

I am quite angry and offended, however, at your lame attempt at an ad-hominem against my person in this discussion. Is that what you reduce my whole post to? A bunch of flailing, desperate retorts founded on nothing but emotion?

How do you define "defensive"? Is any contrary opinion or disagreement to be interpreted as defensive?

I didn't think I was getting emotional, using all caps, exclamation points, or any of that. My entire post was quite rational.

You said it "seemed" defensive -- well, you can chalk another one up in the "I was wrong" department. Your "feelings" let you down yet again. That just goes to show you how inaccurate "feelings" are!

Angry and offended at my lame attempt at an ad-hominem against your person? I just wondered why you reacted as you did and asked the question.

His post rang a bell with some of my own observations and experiences. I didn't think it had anything to do with criticism of you.

I am sorry you have interpreted my question as an attack. I certainly have no reason nor intention of attacking your person.

Ekim · « **Reply #39 on:** August 18, 2014, 05:57:33 AM »

Thanks Mabel you hit the nail on the head. Sometimes the truth hurts. Yes Matthew I am a Traditional Catholic for almost 30 years now. I did misspeak when I said "single mom" what I should have said was a mom who single handedly home schools her children b/ c her husband works. I know this woman. Sorry if you think her valiant and heroic attempt to raise her kids the best way she can is fictitious. Please say a prayer for her.

I've taken the pilgrimage to Mecca (St.Mary's) and saw "Catholic" kids being rude to each other in the schoolyard. I've seen the moms come pick up their kids and observed the moms with pants waiting for the kids to run to the car while moms in skirts got out of their cars and walked over to the sidewalk. Like it or not Traditional. Catholicism has a healthy share of phonys.

There are thousands, probably tens of thousands of good, loving, and kind teachers who teach in public schools. Guess what there are three at our chapel alone. That doesnt include the two men who are college professors. These good people do a great job! Sure there are schools to be avoided and there are others to be embraced. There just is. Look at Dr. White, his influence at the Naval Academy was outstanding! Believe me, the military academies are just prestigious public schools. The kids not to mention Our Lord NEEDS good traditional Catholics to teach in these schools, to take them over, to restore them for His greater glory.

We must work hard to RESTORE ALL THINGS IN CHRIST no matter how bleak it may seem. All things are possible with faith in God and trust in His divine providence.

OHCA · « **Reply #40 on:** August 18, 2014, 08:09:15 AM »

Quote from: Ekim

. . . I know this woman. Sorry if you think her valiant and heroic attempt to raise her kids the best way she can is fictitious. Please say a prayer for her.

Does she still homeschool, or did you send them to a more formal school? Please be more descriptive than "conservative"--was it a Catholic or protestant school?

"Heroic?" That sounds like an empty patronizing term that modernists would use to describe her. I don't think sensationalizing words such as "heroic" are appropriate in relation to having several children and homeschooling them. In this modern world, the school choices are frequently NO, protestant, public, or homeschool.

NO--Wouldn't be appropriate for me. But I realize that not everybody has our crisis sized up the way I have it. I would say that anybody who is in a particularly egregious parish/diocese (i.e., supporting fαɢɢօtry, communion to public adulterers, etc.) should not send their children to an NO school.

protestant--Unacceptable in ALL situations!

Public--At what age and to what extent do you want your children exposed the world's wholesale immorality? Do you want them captives to it for 6 - 8 hours each weekday for 9 months a year? For 2, 4, 6, 8, 12, 13, 14 years? Do you know the nature of immorality to which they'll be exposed?

"Heroic" tends to indicate that homeschooling is going "above & beyond" by dissing these options--I'm not sure that that's the case.

Ekim · « **Reply #41 on:** August 18, 2014, 08:10:15 AM »

Hopefully we're done with the personal attacks. Lets get back to the topic at hand. Why is it that there are so few friendships? Why do we tend to have more friends at 10,20, and even 30 than we do at 40 or 50? I would argue that it is due to down right selfishness...PERIOD!

Truth be told, the true friends you have at age thirty are pretty much the friends you will have for the rest of your life (of course there are exceptions). Why? Because the older we get, the less we are interested in giving of ourselves. We no longer want to invest the time, money, or emotion that it takes to have and foster friendships. We no longer love our neighbor as our selves. It really is that simple.

Ekim · « **Reply #42 on:** August 18, 2014, 08:19:20 AM »

OHCA, your questions have nothing to do with the topic. You are most welcomed to start a thread regarding homeschooling if you would like to explore that topic further. The mother of 13 was given as an example of someone who was "Dissed" by her "Catholic" community because she chose not to home school. Her decision to homeschool or not to homeschool and her state in life is really of no concern of yours. Instead of judging her decisions we should, in all good charity, say a prayer for her that God leads her to be where He wants her to be, when He wants her to be there.

OHCA · « **Reply #43 on:** August 18, 2014, 08:23:29 AM »

"Selfishness?" Perhaps in some situations that's it. But folks have more responsibilities as they get older (unless you're TCat, Crossbro, or some of the other boy-men who've graced us with their brief presence). Responsibilities to wife, children, work, taking care of elderly parents, visiting parents (you lived with them at 10 - 20)--these aren't "selfish" reasons.

OHCA · « **Reply #44 on:** August 18, 2014, 08:25:57 AM »

Quote from: Ekim

OHCA, your questions have nothing to do with the topic. You are most welcomed to start a thread regarding homeschooling if you would like to explore that topic further. The mother of 13 was given as an example of someone who was "Dissed" by her "Catholic" community because she chose not to home school. Her decision to homeschool or not to homeschool and her state in life is really of no concern of yours. Instead of judging her decisions we should, in all good charity, say a prayer for her that God leads her to be where He wants her to be, when He wants her to be there.

You arrogant snot-nosed brat. You made it the "topic" and this whole damn forum's business!! Now you're trying to change the subject because you didn't get the response that you wanted!!

Clever? NOT!!