I said that wearing those clothes is a mortal sin. I said that if someone dies by accident, and has one mortal sin on their soul, that they will not be saved.

One of the conditions which make a sin mortal: it must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense.

The next dress or two my wife buys will be made by Muslims.  I'm serious.  She found the site and showed me and asked what I thought.  I said I thought it looked great.  

Have you seen the modern muslims that still dress modest on top and even wear the head cover but wear jeans at the bottom?  What will one of these think when my wife walks buy in a muslim style dress?

LOT, is your wife buying her dresses online?  If she is, could you share the website/s?  After much praying and speaking with my priest I have chosen to cover my head as Our Blessed Mother did and have done so for a little over two years.  I find wearing under caps make my scarfs not slide off my head so easily and I can only find them on Muslim clothing sites.  I could use some new ones and have lost all my clothing bookmarks after catching a nasty computer bug.  One nice thing about Muslim women's tops/shirts are they are long tunic styles.  They are most modest indeed.   I know Elizabeth doesn't wish to buy anything from Muslims, but how many clothing items do we buy from Buddhists in China?  I would gladly buy from Trad Catholic sites if anyone could direct me to some that are reasonably priced so that I didn't have to take a second mortgage out on my house in order to by a few new items.      

Quote from: bowler

I said that wearing those clothes is a mortal sin. I said that if someone dies by accident, and has one mortal sin on their soul, that they will not be saved.

One of the conditions which make a sin mortal: it must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense.

That simple quote has been used for over 50 years to excuse everybody from practically every sin (except Adolph Hitler of course).

That whatever is done through ignorance must not be considered a sin, is hereby condemned as error. Pope Innocent II

It does not suffice to say: "If I had known that such a thing were forbidden by the law of God, I would have conformed." St. Paul, in persecuting Christians, previous to his conversion, did not think that he was committing evil; the same may be said of Jews who persecuted and crucified Christ. And yet, Saint Paul and these Jews were not innocent and excusable. If they had died in that state, they would never have been saved. Hence, St. Paul, despite the good faith he acted on, acknowledges that he was at that time a blasphemer, and unjust: a persecutor of the Church. If, therefore, a person be ignorant of what is commanded¬ or forbidden because he has not studied the law of God, his ignorance does not excuse him from sin.  St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori


If ignorance is not a sin, then Saul did not sin when he persecuted the Church, because he surely did this in ignorance. Therefore, he should not have said: “I obtained the mercy of God” (I Tim 1:13), but rather “I received my reward”.  St. Bernard


Those who keep their eyes shut cannot see. God made you without your knowledge, but He does not justify you without your willing it. Refusal to hear the truth leads to sin, and that sin itself is punishment for the preceding sin. Every sinner is inexcusable whether he knows it or not. For ignorance itself, in those who do not want to know, is without doubt a sin; and, in those unable to know, is the penalty of sin. In neither case, then, is there a just excuse, but in both cases there is a just condemnation.  St. Augustine

It follows that ignorance has the nature of mortal sin on account of either a preceding negligence, or the consequent result; and, for this reason, ignorance is reckoned one of the general causes of sin. All sin proceeds from ignorance. St. Thomas Aquinas

Unbelief has the character of guilt from resisting the faith, rather than from mere absence of the faith. St Thomas Aquinas

Innumerable souls are miserably lost through ignorance of religion the source of every other calamity. St Frances Xavier Cabrini

Reflect on the ruin of souls wrought by this single cause: ignorance of truths which must be known by all men alike in order that they may attain eternal salvation. This we solemnly affirm: the majority of those condemned to eternal Punishment fall into everlasting misfortune through ignorance of the Mysteries of the faith, which must necessarily be known and believed by all who belong to the Elect. Pope St. Pius X


The excuse of ignorance is denied those who know the commandments of God, but neither will those who do not know be without punishment. "For, as many as have sinned outside the law shall also perish outside the law" (Romans 2:12). Without faith in Christ, no man can be delivered; therefore, they will be judged in such a way that they perish. "The ser¬vant who does not know his Lord's will, and who commits things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes , whereas, the servant who knows his Lord's will, shall be beaten with many stripes" (Lk. 12:47 48). Observe here that it is a more serious matter for a man to sin with knowledge than in ignorance. And yet, we must not take refuge on this account to shades of ignorance, to find our excuse therein. Even ignorance which belongs to them who are, as it were, simply ignorant does not excuse any¬ one so as to exempt him from eternal fire, even were his failure to believe the result of not having heard at all what he should believe. It was not said with¬ out reason: "Pour out Thy wrath upon the nations who have not known Thee" (Psalm 78:6), and "He shall come from Heaven in a flame of fire to take vengeance on those who do not know God" (Thess.11 1:7 8)  St. Augustine

Perhaps he who asserts that a person cannot sin through ignorance never prays for his ignorances, but laughs at the prophet who prays: "O Lord, remember not the sins of my ignorances!" (Ps. 24:7). Perhaps he even reproves God, Who requires satisfaction for the sin of ignorance, for in Leviticus He speaks of "sin through ignorance." If ignorance were never a sin, why is it that the High Priest entered the second tabernacle with blood, which he offered "for his own ignorance and for the ignorance of the people" (Heb. 9:7)? If one never sins through ignorance, then what do we hold against those who killed the Apostles, since they truly did not know that to kill them was evil but rather thought that they were "doing a service to God" (Jn. 16:2). Thus, also, Our Sa-vior prayed in vain on the cross for those who cruci¬fied Him since, as He Himself testifies, they were ig¬norant of what they were doing (Lk. 23:34) and thus they did not sin at all! Neither should anyone suspect that the Apostle could have lied when he said: "For, if they had known it, they would never have crucified the Lord" (I Corinth. 2:8). Is it not sufficiently clear, from these passages, in what great ignorance the man lies who does not know that one can some¬ times sin through ignorance?  St. Bernard

Everyone knows I usually don't obsess over modesty but yes bikinis are immoral for any descent woman, she even doesn't have to be Catholic.

This discussion is not about us. By the way though, even a grandmother can be a bad dressing example for others who can induce men to lust. I've seen grandmothers at our chapel wearing tight knit tops, that would be very a big problem for men if worn by young girls. In fact, the young girls wear them all the time at the chapel, and what can you say to them, when the adults are wearing them? Anyhow, our priests are oblivious to all of this, or more likely,  they have been instructed not to touch the subject by Menzingen.

An unfortunate circuмstance which I've noticed is that even the younger girls will occasionally wear dresses. All of the older women I've seen just wear jeans or pants around everywhere.

An unfortunate circuмstance which I've noticed is that even the younger girls will occasionally wear dresses. All of the older women I've seen just wear jeans or pants around everywhere.

I am an older woman and I almost always wear dresses/skirts.  I wear pants to exercise.

Quote from: bowler

Quote from: Jaynek

Quote from: bowler

Quote from: Jaynek

I find it unlikely that the women who read CathInfo wear tight jeans or bikinis. I certainly don't.

There could be some, certainly the jeans part. My discussion is about establishing a principle. If a trad women told you that outside of Sundays at mass, she wears, shorts, one piece bathing suit, tight jeans etc. , and asks you why you do not wear them, what would you say?

If you said that you don't wear them because it would be a mortal sin for you to induce men to the  sin of lust. Don't you think that would strike a cord? Or would you just say that it would be immodest for you to wear those clothes (the typical lame answer)?

I am a grandmother.  I am not likely to induce men to the sin of lust no matter what I wear.  

This discussion is not about us. By the way though, even a grandmother can be a bad dressing example for others who can induce men to lust. I've seen grandmothers at our chapel wearing tight knit tops, that would be very a big problem for men if worn by young girls. In fact, the young girls wear them all the time at the chapel, and what can you say to them, when the adults are wearing them? Anyhow, our priests are oblivious to all of this, or more likely,  they have been instructed not to touch the subject by Menzingen.

You are not explaining it very well so it makes sense that a priest would discourage you from discussing this subject.  You probably should leave it to others.

Where did i say that priests discouraged me from discussing this subject? I said that:

"In fact, the young girls wear them all the time at the chapel, and what can you say to them, when the adults are wearing them? Anyhow, our priests are oblivious to all of this, or more likely,  they have been instructed not to touch the subject by Menzingen."

I believe that the Novus SSPX like the Novus Ordo, does not want to touch the subject. They are cowards.

By the way, I have never told a female parishioner to dress differently. That's a priests job. If it is a mortal sin as I said, then the priests are allowing it to happen.

Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)

I once heard a recording of an elderly lady calling in to a radio station.

She said, "With today's dress standards, I can't tell who the hookers are."

Sad but true.  

Catholics need to become more active in the clothing industry.  That way, there would be choices for people.  

A lot of times, you'll see a young woman wearing tight jeans and a loose top.  If you watch, (and I'm not suggesting anything untoward) but you will notice many times her hands pull down on her short to cover her bottom.  Even though this activity generally achieves very little in modesty, I am inclined to believe at least subconsciously, that that young woman may buy more modest clothes if they were available.

I'm not excusing anything due to availability because modesty is mostly smirked at in the non-trad communities.

They are the ones who are charging.