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Author Topic: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons  (Read 2823 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2018, 08:50:31 AM »
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  • When I was 14, one Summer, someone gave me an old small boat with an 18hp tiller outboard. I ran around in it for like three weeks, and the engine broke down. I knew nothing about boats or engines. I told my Dad that we needed to get a mechanic to fix it. He told me that we could not afford a mechanic, that if I wanted to play on a boat, that I had to fix it. So I did. I called his brother, my uncle, and he came over and fixed it, teaching me how to do it as we went along. After that, every time something else broke on the engine, I would call him and he'd do the same thing, teach me as he went along fixing it. He would for instance say, we need to take the cylinder head off, get a socket wrench and take each one of these bolts off and put them in this can. Then he'd watch me do it while he had a beer. I think my uncle came to help me like 3 times, and I never had to call him  again.  

    Because of what I learned from that 18hp outboard that someone gave me, I was able to buy a broken down car when I was 18 for $200, and borrow $200 from my father for the parts to repair it. I used that car to drive to the local community college. Because of that 18hp engine that someone gave me, I was able to go into business the rest of my life selling parts and machinery to OEM automobile parts manufacturers and many other industries.

    I did the same for my son about two years ago. I bought him a broken down small boat and put him through the same steps. I bought 5 of the same kind small broken down outboards and had him cannibalize them to make three good ones and he sold them to make money. He knows now at 14 what I knew when I was like 25. 
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #16 on: October 11, 2018, 08:26:24 AM »
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  • I knew a father of 14 children who worked like you describe, he was an electrician. On Sundays, he would cook a barbeque for everyone and did it all himself, none of the girls or mother helped. He did all the repairs around the house himself. He never taught the children to be electricians or anything, he wanted to do it all by himself with no help. His children are now fending for themselves scattered  all over the USA.

    Reading this was a bit scary -- I hope I never make this mistake. Often men are tempted to "do it yourself" rather than take 2X or 3X as long, with hassle, getting your kids involved. It takes patience. Usually I do the right thing and "make them help", but you know how it is, sometimes you just do it yourself.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #17 on: October 11, 2018, 08:28:07 AM »
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  • In many cases, that's because the parents don't have the patience to teach.  You can ALWAYS do it faster yourself without having to explain it to someone else.  I know that when I've gotten help from my kids, the jobs almost always took 3 times longer to complete than if I had just done it myself.  Or else the child doesn't do it as well ... which is only natural.  So, for instance, at first a boy might not mow the lawn well (missing spots, running over stuff, etc.).  Or a girl might not make a particularly good meal.  So Dad or Mom take over.

    This!
    I can tell Ladislaus has been there. hahaha
    I read this post AFTER I wrote my previous post.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #18 on: October 11, 2018, 08:39:27 AM »
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  • I try to pass on everything I have -- but I also realize that "nemo dat quod non habet". No one gives what he doesn't have. I can't teach my son to be a mechanic (since I'm not one myself) but I can teach him an eagerness to learn new things. I can teach him a horror for untruth. I can try to inspire him and teach him the idea that "renaissance men" are cool.

    I have passed on many things I can do, for example baking. My oldest kids can bake bread with a bread machine all by themselves. Whenever I make waffles, cookies, etc. I always get them involved. The last several birthday cakes (box cakes with jello infused) they have made all by themselves.

    My oldest (a boy, who is 12) seems to like cooking. He and his younger sister have a repertoire of casseroles and meals they can make by themselves. Some just involve heating things up, but others involve measuring and recipes. He is also solidly on board about being good with money. He currently earns some money mowing lawns. But he saves up for things, doesn't waste money, and I think he understands why debt/interest is bad, etc. He also learned how to operate an older (1950's or 60's) sewing machine, and made one of his sisters a skirt for her birthday. He's already a church organist, but I don't know if that's a good career to get into. It's certainly a worthy hobby or even side business, so I of course encourage this (also, we NEED an organist at our resistance chapel!)

    But there are things that are good to have (knowledge of the Faith, Gregorian chant skill, writing skill) that are tricky (at best) to translate into something you can live off of.

    My older girls get lots of experience taking care of babies and toddlers, because we're a big family that always has at least 1 or 2 "little ones" at all times, depending on your definition of "little one". Feeding them, cleaning them up, changing diapers, giving baths, etc.

    None of my kids have shown any interest in programming.

    I certainly want to ease all my kids into adulthood, by giving them increasing responsibilities as they grow capable. But I've given much thought to getting my son started in some kind of career, but I'm still at the stage of "expose him to lots of toys and hobbies, and see what he has an aptitude for, or what he enjoys".

    Another point: a child's education/upbringing should be more like school or college (well-rounded) than a vocational or trade school, focused on training for just one lucrative job, and ignoring all else. Kids can always specialize when they're older, if you've given them the right foundation.

    As an aside, I think living in the country and/or having a large family makes it easier to train your kids to do things themselves, as well as teaching them to work. There is so much to do, you CAN'T do it all yourself, so it forces you to stay in the right mode ("make your kids help"). My kids have set up their own tents for years now. And not just the 2 oldest, either. They love to play around in them and even sleep in them overnight when the weather permits.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #19 on: October 11, 2018, 09:01:04 AM »
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  • This!
    I can tell Ladislaus has been there. hahaha
    I read this post AFTER I wrote my previous post.

    Oh, absolutely.  Just ONE example.  I was assembling a swingset (similar to one I had built before), and when my boys insisted on helping it took probably at least 3x as long to do than if I had done it myself.  But I realized it was a learning experience for them.  Sometimes, however, when you're busy and in a hurry ... it's very tempting to just shoo them away and do it yourself.

    Or else it doesn't get done well.  So I usually have to touch up the yard work or even just re-sweep the floor after they finish.  Not necessarily for lack of effort but for lack of skill (noticing things like whether or not you've gotten every part of the grass or garden bed or, in the case of sweeping, the floor.)


    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #20 on: October 11, 2018, 10:14:35 AM »
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  • Quote
    but I also realize that "nemo dat quod non habet". No one gives what he doesn't have.

    This is so true! and explains the sad circuмstances of many children (for example, the unfortunate whose parents lack the minimum of self-respect or common decency or are mentally unfit. How can they properly care for children if they cannot even take care of themselves?). They say "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" . I find this to be true for the most part. Of course, there are exceptions.

    This is why parents should always be improving themselves in all areas of life and never give up.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #21 on: October 11, 2018, 10:27:48 AM »
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  • If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #22 on: October 11, 2018, 04:03:58 PM »
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  • Very true, Ladislaus.  My mother said the same thing: easier for me to do it, much harder to do the right thing to let the kids learn and do.

    Our grand daughter, Josephine, age 7 told her mom, "I want to drive a car to help you."  God bless her.  She wants to help those who look so tired out.  So, I said, Josie, can you help grandma clear the table, put food away, fill the dishwasher, make grandpa's coffee and when all was done, we went to the park for fun!

    You never know, it maybe her that takes care of us in our old age.


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #23 on: October 11, 2018, 07:05:35 PM »
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  • Don't forget the essential role fathers play in raising daughters.  From my Dad I learned about standing up for what is right when everyone else does what is wrong, to put God, Church, and family before school, work, and friends.  My Dad taught me to appreciate the natural creation and to care for it.  He taught me the value of perseverance and the importance of doing my best.  All of this carried over into the things he did not teach me, my profession, my faith, my personal and social life.  
    He also taught me practical skills that many women never learn; how to do basic auto maintenance and repairs, how to build and finish wooden furniture, how to paint a house--interior & exterior, how to fix an electric socket, install the inner works of a toilet, how to lay tile and carpet...I do not make a living with these skills, but they have saved me a lot of expense and time over the years.  
    Of course, my Mom and grandmother also taught me to cook, sew, childcare, clean a home thoroughly...I also use these skills but don't make a living from them.  (I'm single, so have not the luxury of a husband to do the "man chores.")  

    At one point, it seemed Dad was either at work, or, if home, too exhausted to do anything but flop in his chair and fall asleep.  My parents took what then seemed radical action.  They gave the big color TV to grandma and we went back to the tiny b&w 10×12" RCA with rabbit ears.  It was in their bedroom atop the high bureau.  After 6:00pm on weekdays and 4:00pm Friday thru Monday morning was for family, Church, and family friends.  No work/school, non family-friendly activities were permitted. It took sacrifice.  No more school sports, bike club for Dad, women's socials for Mom.  Instead, we prepared and ate meals together, went camping, on day trips, remodeled the house, volunteered at charities, or sometimes just played board games.  On weekdays, 7:30-9:30 was quiet study time.  Those who had homework, bills to pay, accounts to be balanced, reports to be written did it in the family room.  Those who didn't have work could do art, knit, crochet, whittle, do puzzles, etc.  We did this from the time I was 10 until I left home at 18.  

    After that, I'm not sure why, but it was eventually dropped.  My younger siblings became rebellious and my parents were harassed by the teachers and even the priest for being too rigid, strict, and old-fashioned.  In retrospect, what my parents should have done in 1972 at the latest, was pull up the stakes and move away from the urban area where we lived.  At the least, they should have pulled us out of public school, out of the novus ordo.  But who even knew about homeschooling back then?  Or of Catholic tradition?


    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #24 on: October 15, 2018, 02:40:56 PM »
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  • If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #25 on: October 15, 2018, 06:07:06 PM »
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  • And don't let your son fall off and break his neck in the process.  It would be hard to take up the trade when you're paralyzed from the neck down.  I'm just waiting for that boy in the picture to take a tumble.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #26 on: October 15, 2018, 06:12:08 PM »
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  • Sure, the old "My dad can beat up your dad" thing.  Of course it's disconcerting for the dad who's son has just pitted him against a trained boxer fifteen years younger than he with double his own muscle mass.  In which case you answer, "Yes, son, I COULD take him, but I follow the Lord in eschewing violence.  Real men fight only when they have no other choice. [i.e. if you can't run away LOL]."  But can he do calculus and differential equations like I can?  I didn't think so.  And the pen [or, these days, the keyboard] is mightier than the sword.  There are lots of ways to talk your way out of that one without losing face with the boy.  "While other fathers pass along tools and weapons to their son, I proudly bequeath to you my pocket protector."  I make twice as much money as that guy.  And, of course, in the Catholic Tradition, we value spiritual strength over physical.

    Offline jvk

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #27 on: October 15, 2018, 09:26:32 PM »
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  • What a very interesting thread!  I just found it.  I hope you don't mind a woman's input?

    I am so blessed to be married to a man who has his own business, AND we live in the country.  He values teaching his sons things so highly that they are with him most hours of the day they're not in school.  When he's working in the shop, they're out there cleaning/wiping down.  Now the older ones help cut metal and debur parts (husband is a machinist).

    He used to spend hours in the shop, before the boys were old enough to help him...now we have animals--of all varieties--and a large garden.  He also helps his dad farm and manage his woods.  Needless to say, the boys are always included.  Just the other day they all helped butcher our beef bull...and my 8 year old son butchered, plucked, and gutted his first chicken today.  They can milk, mow, hoe, drive tractors, take care of animals, sweep, wash vehicles, stack wood, hook up machinery, etc.  ALL because my husband gave his time and energy to teach them.  Our oldest is 11, and we have 6 boys.  A lot for one man to handle, all at once.  And yes, there's often a lot of yelling involved (he's not a saint!) BUT all our sons have very high work ethics and high standards of quality workmanship.

    They're encouraged to take up as hobbies what interests them.  One son loves butchering (the 8 year old!), another enjoys wood-working.  One excels at technical drawings. 

    They're also taught to persevere in jobs that are unpleasant.  Like hoeing/weeding in summer humidity.  Milking in 0-25 degree weather every morning.  Waiting a couple hours to eat dinner in order to finish a job, etc. 

    A lot of times when a woman is searching for a husband, she's looking for a man who will be a good father/provider for her future children.  It's pretty hard to know exactly what kind of a father a man will be, until he actually becomes one.  In this case, I was certainly blessed. 

    My husband has his faults, but he's an EXCELLENT father.  If our sons turn out to be as good a man as he is...I'll be one very proud mother!

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #28 on: October 15, 2018, 10:37:08 PM »
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  • If they WANTED to get into computer programming, in that case I would certainly show them the ropes and offer guidance.
    Something to be said about guilds and fathers passing their trade onto their sons
    In the U.S., where there is too much liberty, and people to do what they want instead of what they're good at.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #29 on: October 15, 2018, 10:40:41 PM »
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  • Quote
    Our oldest is 11, and we have 6 boys.

    Wow -- 6 boys!  I'm still praying for a 2nd.
    Our oldest (the boy) is 12. We also have 6 girls.
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