I've written here on CI about the young trad mothers, up to like 45 year olds, who themselves wear and let their daughters wear short shorts, spandex tights as pants, yoga pants, tight blue jeans, tight stretch top tank tops with belly exposed, bikinis....... The Fathers say nothing to their wives and are oblivious to anything being wrong. They are indifferent to the whole affair, which basically translates to that they do nothing to take care of their daughters purity. As soon as the girls are old enough, they send them away to some SSPX school. In my culture, the daughters would remain in the home till they were married to a man that was appropiate in the eyes of the parents, specially the father.


In this thread I will discuss the fathers attitude towards their boys. It has always been the responsibility of the father to teach his sons an occupation so that they can survive in this world. This was always the custom in Southern European cultures, like the Italians and the Spanish. In American it is no longer like that. Americans are like snakes, they lay their eggs and walk away and let the children basically fend for  themselves. In my culture even to this day, the sons were taught how to make a living by the father. Today, trad fathers do nothing like that for their boys, they actually do nothing. My grandfather learned his occupation from his father. My father learned his occupation from his father. I learned mine from my father. As the families knowledge based grew and broadened, each one might have done something different than his father, but they could not have ever done it without the base provided by the father.

I am talking here only about trad parents, and specifically the men. We are not concerned with the parents of the world.

In some families the fathers are never around to teach the children anything, especially if he is the only one providing money for the family's survival. How do you expect an American father to teach his children anything when all he does is eat, work, sleep, and repeat the process indefinitely just to get his family by?

Not sure.  In the past, of course, many/most people learned some trade, and their fathers could apprentice them into his trade.  Now very often the son will want to enter some other field than what the father does.  So, for instance, my son might want to go to medical school.  I can't do very much to directly train him.  Even if I help him to some extent, he still has to go get a degree and pass the exams.  Even if I were a Dr., while I could share my experience, he still would have to go through school.

I am (basically) a computer programmer.  So far neither of my sons wants to do computer programming for a living (don't blame them).  So, if they go into a different field, there's little I can do to directly help them learn their chosen trade.  It's not as if I am a carpenter and can teach my sons carpentry.  If they WANTED to get into computer programming, in that case I would certainly show them the ropes and offer guidance.  And I will help them figure out how to choose a field and how to navigate their way through the educational system.  Obviously, some other skills ... like basic maintenance and repair skills (eletrical, mechanical, automotive, etc.) I can teach them ... but you were talking about teaching them the skills to make a living.

Not sure.  In the past, of course, many/most people learned some trade, and their fathers could apprentice them into his trade.  Now very often the son will want to enter some other field than what the father does.  So, for instance, my son might want to go to medical school.  I can't do very much to directly train him.  Even if I help him to some extent, he still has to go get a degree and pass the exams.  Even if I were a Dr., while I could share my experience, he still would have to go through school.

I am (basically) a computer programmer.  So far neither of my sons wants to do computer programming for a living (don't blame them).  So, if they go into a different field, there's little I can do to directly help them learn their chosen trade.  It's not as if I am a carpenter and can teach my sons carpentry.  If they WANTED to get into computer programming, in that case I would certainly show them the ropes and offer guidance.  And I will help them figure out how to choose a field and how to navigate their way through the educational system.  Obviously, some other skills ... like basic maintenance and repair skills (eletrical, mechanical, automotive, etc.) I can teach them ... but you were talking about teaching them the skills to make a living.

Thanks for the excellent lead in. When I open threads, these are the kinds of responses that I hope for. They tell me the caliber of the audience.

So, for instance, my son might want to go to medical school.  I can't do very much to directly train him.

I can respond to your entire posting based on this quote above:

Let us say you have 5 boys and you are a computer programmer and none of them are interested in what you do (which is very unusual, there would always be one or more interested).  Your duty is to find out what they are good at, what they excel at. This is done by throwing at them different toys, games, chores, and seeing what they go for and providing them the materials and support . One child might like to mow the lawn and take care of the grounds. One boy might like cooking,  one child might like repairing electrical apparatus, one might be good at mechanical repairs around the house and building things. These activities are all things that have to be done by you around the house, so they will see you doing them. Use them to help you. Also, there are neighbors and parishioners at your church who do things at home that may interest your children, like say if the neighbor does automobile body work as a hobby. You can let your boy learn from them.

I know men that started mowing lawns when they were 14:  and today own companies worth $20+ million, or got a degree in agricultural engineering and are in the lumber business raising forests in Brazil to sell in the USA, or who own lawnmower manufacturing companies.

I know men who started as boys repairing stuff around the house and ended up as civil engineers or as contractors making high rises.

I know a man who learned body work as a child from the neighbor, and today has a huge body shop business employee all of children and relatives.

I could give a million examples, my point in detailing is to show that blue collar work can turn into an engineering degree, and millions of dollars not just ending up mowing lawns for $35 a pop all your life.

Let us say you have 5 boys and you are a computer programmer and none of them are interested in what you do (which is very unusual, there would always be one or more interested). 

I have 2 boys (the other 4 of mine are girls).  9-year-old loves working with tools and fixing things.  He absolutely despises school.  He MAY at some point be interested in computers, but he has shown nothing as of this time.  My older boy, 16, is the opposite ... wants nothing to do with mechanical things.  I showed him how to program.  He found it interesting for a little while but then said he would not want to do it for a living.  He may have some aptitude for it.  Every child is different, and their inclinations might change over time.

I'm not one who's been propagandized into believing that getting a white-collar job after a 4-year degree is the only path to success.

Your father can take you with him to work. 

Uhm, no. The nature of his employment would have him imprisoned if he did that. Maybe myself as well.

 Your father can work with you on his days off.

Hardly. My parents are pretty much old people at this point, so his working all week and then driving an exausting distance to Mass (which you can't convince him not to do) and all the other little things add up to the point that when he has a day off there's almost no energy left to do much else beside the bills from a chair or catch up on rest, and all this on top of bad health which should technically have killed him a on more then a couple occasions.

Maybe others can make use of your advice, but I don't believe what you are promoting here is applicable to my life anymore.

My grandfather was an accountant and an administrator (like a CEO today) of a big company. He was totally inept at carpentry and anything involving working with the hands, yet his two boys were excellent at both. The sons became owners of a large manufacturing plant, one the engineer, the other one running the office. My grandfather saw to it that they both were provided with the means to work at what they liked and were good at since they were little. He had a carpentry shop put in and bought everything needed for them to do the work around the house and car repairs and such. Later, he bought a hardware story and had them run it. Eventually, they went into the manufacturing and my grandfather worked for them as the accountant.  Had my grandfather done nothing, they likely would have ended up in completely different fields.

Sure, but that's a bit different than actually teaching them a trade.  He enabled them.  But not everybody has the financial means to build a carpentry shop for their kids.  So, at that point, the sons would apprentice out to another carpenter, rather than the father.

In the book Robinson Crusoe, his father was a merchant and when Robinson told him he was leaving the family business for the high seas, something which only the dregs of society had to be tricked to undertake, he thought told his son had gone crazy. He told him that they had the best position of all, for they were not so rich that they bore the responsibilities of the rich, nor were they like the poor who have no time for leisure and learning.

I do not think there are many trad fathers in the USA who are so poor that they have no time for teaching/ directing/ steering their boys how to make a living.