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Offline Last Tradhican

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Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
« on: March 20, 2018, 10:57:19 AM »
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  • I've written here on CI about the young trad mothers, up to like 45 year olds, who themselves wear and let their daughters wear short shorts, spandex tights as pants, yoga pants, tight blue jeans, tight stretch top tank tops with belly exposed, bikinis....... The Fathers say nothing to their wives and are oblivious to anything being wrong. They are indifferent to the whole affair, which basically translates to that they do nothing to take care of their daughters purity. As soon as the girls are old enough, they send them away to some SSPX school. In my culture, the daughters would remain in the home till they were married to a man that was appropiate in the eyes of the parents, specially the father.


    In this thread I will discuss the fathers attitude towards their boys. It has always been the responsibility of the father to teach his sons an occupation so that they can survive in this world. This was always the custom in Southern European cultures, like the Italians and the Spanish. In American it is no longer like that. Americans are like snakes, they lay their eggs and walk away and let the children basically fend for  themselves. In my culture even to this day, the sons were taught how to make a living by the father. Today, trad fathers do nothing like that for their boys, they actually do nothing. My grandfather learned his occupation from his father. My father learned his occupation from his father. I learned mine from my father. As the families knowledge based grew and broadened, each one might have done something different than his father, but they could not have ever done it without the base provided by the father.

    I am talking here only about trad parents, and specifically the men. We are not concerned with the parents of the world.

    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #1 on: March 20, 2018, 11:23:57 AM »
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  • I've written here on CI about the young trad mothers, up to like 45 year olds, who themselves wear and let their daughters wear short shorts, spandex tights as pants, yoga pants, tight blue jeans, tight stretch top tank tops with belly exposed, bikinis....... The Fathers say nothing to their wives and are oblivious to anything being wrong. They are indifferent to the whole affair, which basically translates to that they do nothing to take care of their daughters purity. As soon as the girls are old enough, they send them away to some SSPX school. In my culture, the daughters would remain in the home till they were married to a man that was appropiate in the eyes of the parents, specially the father.


    In this thread I will discuss the fathers attitude towards their boys. It has always been the responsibility of the father to teach his sons an occupation so that they can survive in this world. This was always the custom in Southern European cultures, like the Italians and the Spanish. In American it is no longer like that. Americans are like snakes, they lay their eggs and walk away and let the children basically fend for  themselves. In my culture even to this day, the sons were taught how to make a living by the father. Today, trad fathers do nothing like that for their boys, they actually do nothing. My grandfather learned his occupation from his father. My father learned his occupation from his father. I learned mine from my father. As the families knowledge based grew and broadened, each one might have done something different than his father, but they could not have ever done it without the base provided by the father.

    I am talking here only about trad parents, and specifically the men. We are not concerned with the parents of the world.


    In some families the fathers are never around to teach the children anything, especially if he is the only one providing money for the family's survival. How do you expect an American father to teach his children anything when all he does is eat, work, sleep, and repeat the process indefinitely just to get his family by?
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #2 on: March 20, 2018, 12:41:49 PM »
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  • In some families the fathers are never around to teach the children anything, especially if he is the only one providing money for the family's survival. How do you expect an American father to teach his children anything when all he does is eat, work, sleep, and repeat the process indefinitely just to get his family by?
    Are you speaking for yourself or from stories you have heard?
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #3 on: March 20, 2018, 12:44:55 PM »
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  • Not sure.  In the past, of course, many/most people learned some trade, and their fathers could apprentice them into his trade.  Now very often the son will want to enter some other field than what the father does.  So, for instance, my son might want to go to medical school.  I can't do very much to directly train him.  Even if I help him to some extent, he still has to go get a degree and pass the exams.  Even if I were a Dr., while I could share my experience, he still would have to go through school.

    I am (basically) a computer programmer.  So far neither of my sons wants to do computer programming for a living (don't blame them).  So, if they go into a different field, there's little I can do to directly help them learn their chosen trade.  It's not as if I am a carpenter and can teach my sons carpentry.  If they WANTED to get into computer programming, in that case I would certainly show them the ropes and offer guidance.  And I will help them figure out how to choose a field and how to navigate their way through the educational system.  Obviously, some other skills ... like basic maintenance and repair skills (eletrical, mechanical, automotive, etc.) I can teach them ... but you were talking about teaching them the skills to make a living.

    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #4 on: March 20, 2018, 01:01:02 PM »
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  • Are you speaking for yourself or from stories you have heard?

    Both, but in my case I've at least picked up a few things from occasionally helping my Dad with the gardens, building chicken coops, slautering, fixing fences, and other small, very rare, ocasional things. Maybe once in a while we have a short discussion on some sermon or piece of news, health or mechanism that needs working, but other then that he's always at work just living paycheck to paycheck and trying to stay afloat. 
       Many other Americans are in the same place, if not even worse conditions.
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #5 on: March 20, 2018, 01:31:22 PM »
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  • Not sure.  In the past, of course, many/most people learned some trade, and their fathers could apprentice them into his trade.  Now very often the son will want to enter some other field than what the father does.  So, for instance, my son might want to go to medical school.  I can't do very much to directly train him.  Even if I help him to some extent, he still has to go get a degree and pass the exams.  Even if I were a Dr., while I could share my experience, he still would have to go through school.

    I am (basically) a computer programmer.  So far neither of my sons wants to do computer programming for a living (don't blame them).  So, if they go into a different field, there's little I can do to directly help them learn their chosen trade.  It's not as if I am a carpenter and can teach my sons carpentry.  If they WANTED to get into computer programming, in that case I would certainly show them the ropes and offer guidance.  And I will help them figure out how to choose a field and how to navigate their way through the educational system.  Obviously, some other skills ... like basic maintenance and repair skills (eletrical, mechanical, automotive, etc.) I can teach them ... but you were talking about teaching them the skills to make a living.
    Thanks for the excellent lead in. When I open threads, these are the kinds of responses that I hope for. They tell me the caliber of the audience.


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    So, for instance, my son might want to go to medical school.  I can't do very much to directly train him.
    I can respond to your entire posting based on this quote above:

    Let us say you have 5 boys and you are a computer programmer and none of them are interested in what you do (which is very unusual, there would always be one or more interested).  Your duty is to find out what they are good at, what they excel at. This is done by throwing at them different toys, games, chores, and seeing what they go for and providing them the materials and support . One child might like to mow the lawn and take care of the grounds. One boy might like cooking,  one child might like repairing electrical apparatus, one might be good at mechanical repairs around the house and building things. These activities are all things that have to be done by you around the house, so they will see you doing them. Use them to help you. Also, there are neighbors and parishioners at your church who do things at home that may interest your children, like say if the neighbor does automobile body work as a hobby. You can let your boy learn from them.

    I know men that started mowing lawns when they were 14:  and today own companies worth $20+ million, or got a degree in agricultural engineering and are in the lumber business raising forests in Brazil to sell in the USA, or who own lawnmower manufacturing companies.

    I know men who started as boys repairing stuff around the house and ended up as civil engineers or as contractors making high rises.

    I know a man who learned body work as a child from the neighbor, and today has a huge body shop business employee all of children and relatives.

    I could give a million examples, my point in detailing is to show that blue collar work can turn into an engineering degree, and millions of dollars not just ending up mowing lawns for $35 a pop all your life.



    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #6 on: March 20, 2018, 01:41:38 PM »
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  • Both, but in my case I've at least picked up a few things from occasionally helping my Dad with the gardens, building chicken coops, slautering, fixing fences, and other small, very rare, ocasional things. Maybe once in a while we have a short discussion on some sermon or piece of news, health or mechanism that needs working, but other then that he's always at work just living paycheck to paycheck and trying to stay afloat.
       Many other Americans are in the same place, if not even worse conditions.
    I knew a father of 14 children who worked like you describe, he was an electrician. On Sundays, he would cook a barbeque for everyone and did it all himself, none of the girls or mother helped. He did all the repairs around the house himself. He never taught the children to be electricians or anything, he wanted to do it all by himself with no help. His children are now fending for themselves scattered  all over the USA.

    Your father can take you with him to work. Your father can work with you on his days off. Your father should be your best friend. Don't waste time talking about nothing, direct your time with your father so that you get everything out of him that there is. Read what I wrote to Ladislaus.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #7 on: March 20, 2018, 01:50:03 PM »
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  • Let us say you have 5 boys and you are a computer programmer and none of them are interested in what you do (which is very unusual, there would always be one or more interested). 

    I have 2 boys (the other 4 of mine are girls).  9-year-old loves working with tools and fixing things.  He absolutely despises school.  He MAY at some point be interested in computers, but he has shown nothing as of this time.  My older boy, 16, is the opposite ... wants nothing to do with mechanical things.  I showed him how to program.  He found it interesting for a little while but then said he would not want to do it for a living.  He may have some aptitude for it.  Every child is different, and their inclinations might change over time.

    I'm not one who's been propagandized into believing that getting a white-collar job after a 4-year degree is the only path to success.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #8 on: March 20, 2018, 01:53:55 PM »
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  • I knew a father of 14 children who worked like you describe, he was an electrician. On Sundays, he would cook a barbeque for everyone and did it all himself, none of the girls or mother helped. He did all the repairs around the house himself. He never taught the children to be electricians or anything, he wanted to do it all by himself with no help. His children are now fending for themselves scattered  all over the USA.

    In many cases, that's because the parents don't have the patience to teach.  You can ALWAYS do it faster yourself without having to explain it to someone else.  I know that when I've gotten help from my kids, the jobs almost always took 3 times longer to complete than if I had just done it myself.  Or else the child doesn't do it as well ... which is only natural.  So, for instance, at first a boy might not mow the lawn well (missing spots, running over stuff, etc.).  Or a girl might not make a particularly good meal.  So Dad or Mom take over.

    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #9 on: March 20, 2018, 02:05:02 PM »
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  • Your father can take you with him to work. 
    Uhm, no. The nature of his employment would have him imprisoned if he did that. Maybe myself as well.
     Your father can work with you on his days off.

    Hardly. My parents are pretty much old people at this point, so his working all week and then driving an exausting distance to Mass (which you can't convince him not to do) and all the other little things add up to the point that when he has a day off there's almost no energy left to do much else beside the bills from a chair or catch up on rest, and all this on top of bad health which should technically have killed him a on more then a couple occasions.

    Maybe others can make use of your advice, but I don't believe what you are promoting here is applicable to my life anymore.
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #10 on: March 20, 2018, 04:25:19 PM »
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  • My grandfather was an accountant and an administrator (like a CEO today) of a big company. He was totally inept at carpentry and anything involving working with the hands, yet his two boys were excellent at both. The sons became owners of a large manufacturing plant, one the engineer, the other one running the office. My grandfather saw to it that they both were provided with the means to work at what they liked and were good at since they were little. He had a carpentry shop put in and bought everything needed for them to do the work around the house and car repairs and such. Later, he bought a hardware story and had them run it. Eventually, they went into the manufacturing and my grandfather worked for them as the accountant.  Had my grandfather done nothing, they likely would have ended up in completely different fields.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #11 on: March 20, 2018, 05:53:05 PM »
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  • My grandfather was an accountant and an administrator (like a CEO today) of a big company. He was totally inept at carpentry and anything involving working with the hands, yet his two boys were excellent at both. The sons became owners of a large manufacturing plant, one the engineer, the other one running the office. My grandfather saw to it that they both were provided with the means to work at what they liked and were good at since they were little. He had a carpentry shop put in and bought everything needed for them to do the work around the house and car repairs and such. Later, he bought a hardware story and had them run it. Eventually, they went into the manufacturing and my grandfather worked for them as the accountant.  Had my grandfather done nothing, they likely would have ended up in completely different fields.

    Sure, but that's a bit different than actually teaching them a trade.  He enabled them.  But not everybody has the financial means to build a carpentry shop for their kids.  So, at that point, the sons would apprentice out to another carpenter, rather than the father.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #12 on: March 20, 2018, 07:07:52 PM »
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  • Sure, but that's a bit different than actually teaching them a trade.  He enabled them.  
    Yes, that is what I said in the first answer to you. You can enable them


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    But not everybody has the financial means to build a carpentry shop for their kids.
    That was in the early 1930's, a "carpentry shop" was a room with a table and hand tools.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 07:17:58 PM »
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  • In the book Robinson Crusoe, his father was a merchant and when Robinson told him he was leaving the family business for the high seas, something which only the dregs of society had to be tricked to undertake, he thought told his son had gone crazy. He told him that they had the best position of all, for they were not so rich that they bore the responsibilities of the rich, nor were they like the poor who have no time for leisure and learning.

    I do not think there are many trad fathers in the USA who are so poor that they have no time for teaching/ directing/ steering their boys how to make a living.  
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Trad Fathers Doing Nothing for Their Sons
    « Reply #14 on: March 21, 2018, 08:29:41 AM »
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  • In many cases, that's because the parents don't have the patience to teach.

    Think about home schooling mothers and patience to teach. They take a child from birth to 12th grade and beyond. It is the duty of parents to teach their children all their lives.


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    You can ALWAYS do it faster yourself without having to explain it to someone else.  

    A business run like that will never grow. I see it all the time, a lawn mowing guy 60 years old working by himself. While I see another in the same business has $20 million in sales and a crew of 100.

    When my son was little, he was in my shop playing with real hand tools and "holding the other end" for me and such. When he was 9 he started to be useful. Today he is 14 and he is doing some things I knew nothing about. He asked me like two years ago, Dad did you know as much as I do about blue collar work when you were my age? I told him son, I didn't know what you know when I was 25.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

     

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