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Offline Mat183

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TIA and TFP
« on: April 04, 2025, 02:37:29 PM »
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  • https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/A004_tfp.htm


    What People Are Asking

    donateBooksCDsHOMEupdatessearchcontact

    Questions about the Past and Present Day
     Relations between TIA and TFP

    TIA has received many questions from its supporters and readers
     regarding its links to TFP. It was judged opportune to address
    these questions here as an ensemble.

     1. Question: Was there ever any relationship between TIA – Tradition in Action – and TFP – Tradition, Family and Property?

     Answer: As for the two organizations, there were few links from the past because TIA is much more recent than TFP. TIA’s public life started after 1995, the year of the death of Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.

     Some of the members of TIA, however, did have past links with TFP. Mr. Atila S. Guimarães was an associate of the Brazilian TFP from 1964 until 1998 when he was excluded from the board of the organization. Dr. Marian T. Horvat also collaborated in many ways with American TFP from 1977 until approximately the same time.

     The cordial relations of both Atila Guimarães and Marian Horvat with TFP ceased when they published the book In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. There is no relationship at present – official or otherwise – between the two organizations.

     2. Question: Could you explain in more detail what led to this rupture?

     Answer: The main reason was that, given the accelerated destruction inside Holy Mother Church, Tradition in Action judged it necessary to publish the work of Guimarães analyzing Vatican Council II with the hope of changing the present day religious situation. TFP objected strongly to this action. That antagonism was translated into two facts:

    • A.S. Guimarães decided to publish the first book of his collection on Vatican Council II, and the American edition was launched in November 1997 under the responsibility of TIA.
    • The new president of the Brazilian TFP wrote a letter some days later demanding that Guimarães remove the book from circulation. He gave two basic reasons: first, according to him Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira did not want to publish the collection on the Council in our days, and second, the Brazilian TFP board of directors also did not want to publish it.
    3. Question: Were these arguments correct?


    A004SDP-ASGinstudy.jpg - 50830 Bytes
    Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, left, edits the Portuguese text of In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. Atila Sinke Guimarães, at right, takes note of the corrections. They are working in front of a small statue of Our Lady of Good Success.
    Answer: No and yes. No, the first argument is not correct, because Prof. Plinio did want to publish the collection on Vatican II to try to change the present day religious situation. Yes, the second reason is correct, because the directors of the Brazilian TFP positively did not want to publish it.

     4. Question: Is it possible to be more specific about the intentions of Prof. Plinio?

     Answer: Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira invited A.S. Guimarães to write the collection on the Council and gave him the necessary intellectual and material assistance to do so from 1982 until 1995 when he died, that is, for all the years it took the author to write and edit the 11 volumes. During this time, Prof. Plinio also spoke to him about his plans for the future of the collection. The author gave some of those guidelines in the introduction of In the Murky Waters of Vatican II.

     In November 1997, after Guimarães received the ultimatum demanding that he remove the book from circulation, he responded by writing a long answer (253 pages in English; 245 pages in Portuguese) addressing the objections presented by the Brazilian TFP president. In that defense he reproduced innumerable texts in which Prof. Plinio supported and stimulated not only the writing of the collection, but also its publication as soon as possible. Guimarães had tape-recorded and typed many of the meetings in which he received this orientation directly from Prof. Plinio.

     After he finished writing his defense in March 1998, Guimarães asked two witnesses to deliver the work to the TFP president, which was done. He also printed 500 copies of this docuмent and tried to spread it among TFP members. Since the letter condemning him had been widely circulated within the TFP, it seemed fair that the members should know the refutation to it. To this day there has been no response from the directors to the defense. Further, they forbade the members to read it, and have continued to spread the fabrication that Prof. Plinio did not want to publish Guimarães’ books on the Council.

     5. Question: Why did the Brazilian president of TFP and its board of directors try to forbid Guimarães from publishing his book in 1997?

     Answer: In several discussions with the author prior to the ultimatum, the directors avowed that as they were intellectually unprepared to face a public polemic with the religious authority, they did not want to stir up any waters. Even if one sets aside the truth of the first statement, the decision to avoid a public polemic, which in effect meant deserting the battlefront, raised a grave moral problem. Many times in History, Catholics with inferior means have been called to face enemies with superior resources. They did not run away from the fight. They had the courage to face the enemy and trusted in Divine Providence to give them assistance to win.

     In the case of the TFP and the fight against Progressivism in the Church the same principle should be applied. Therefore, what was condemnable in the attitude of the directors was that they lacked courage to continue the struggle, and lacked faith in Divine Providence to fill the vacuum created by their own deficient preparation for the situation.

     There was, in addition, another important reason why those directors did not want to enter into any polemic with the religious authority, a reason that Guimarães learned of two years after its occurrence. This was the existence of a clear-cut compromise made between the TFP directors and the ecclesiastic structure, by which they committed to refrain from any public discussion on Vatican II and the reforms that came from it. The directors sent a letter containing this promise to the Cardinal Primate of Brazil, then Cardinal Lucas Moreira Neves, giving him the guarantee that the TFP would no longer combat Vatican II and its consequences.

     6. Question: Is it possible to know the content of this letter?

     Answer: Yes, it is. Guimarães reproduced the main parts of it in his defense. These parts will be posted below.

     The letter was dated September 18, 1995. It was written and sent without the consent of Prof. Plinio, who was in the hospital and died two weeks later on October 3, 1995. The pretext for the letter was to clarify some points for Cardinal Moreira Neves, who days before had attacked TFP as opposed to Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae. The letter was signed by Canon José Luiz Villac, an ecclesiastic who was chosen to represent the directors in the agreement. In the docuмent, he speaks, in fact, as a representative of the directors and the whole organization. The letter was delivered, but the agreement was kept quiet. Only a handful of persons knew about its existence. The great majority of TFP members did not know about this official compromise of the directorate then, and perhaps they are still unaware of it today.

     Here are the more important excerpts:

    Quote
    “The words of Your Eminence that ‘the TFP does not hide its opposition to Vatican Council II ... and takes a critical attitude in relation to the Mass of Paul VI in favor of that of St. Pius V,’ also contains erroneous information.

     “The attitude of those who belong to the TFP toward Vatican Council II and the Mass of Paul VI is quite nuanced. With regard to the latter, the TFP always has maintained a discrete position, and does not want to make public certain theological difficulties raised by the Novus Ordo Missae. It is waiting for a full elucidation of the subject from the supreme authority of the Church.

     “In face of the very grave problems that afflict the Church in our days - so often mentioned by H.H. John Paul II - this is the position, Your Eminence, of the great majority of the members, supporters and correspondents of the TFP:
    • “They admit that they are perplexed over certain reforms and certain events that have taken place in the Church since the pontificate of John XXIII;
    • “This perplexity is defined as a non-comprehension and an uneasiness;
    • “This perplexity is not an affirmation that there is error in these events and these reforms, and it is also not an affirmation that there is not error. Those who make up the TFP, even if they are instructed Catholics, declare themselves incapable of resolving all the very complex theological, moral, canonical and liturgical questions that are at the root of this uneasiness.
    “In view of this, they are trying to accompany the debates over these questions that surge here and there in the ecclesiastical sphere, waiting for the matter to be duly clarified.

     “While they wait for this clarification, they adhere entirely to the terms set out by Pope John Paul II in his Apostolic Letter Ecclesia Dei, and that are contained in the protocol that various traditionalist groups have signed with the Vatican [which affirms]: ‘With regard to some doctrines taught by Vatican Council II, or with regard to later reforms, liturgical or of Canon Law, that can seem difficult to reconcile with declarations of the previous Magisterium, I assume the obligation of maintaining a positive attitude of study and communication with the Apostolic See, avoiding any polemic.’

     “I pledge my word as a priest to guarantee Your Eminence that this balanced and conciliatory attitude has always been adopted by those who belong to the TFP, and that they have no intention of abandoning it.”
    From the time the letter was written until today, all the practical evidence indicates that the TFP is keeping its side of that bargain, maintaining a position of non-militancy in face of the infiltration of Progressivism in the Catholic Hierarchy.

     In contrast, TIA is assuming a position of active fight and public resistance.

     7. Question: Is it true that under Prof. Plinio’s presidency, the TFP always took a “discrete position” and a “balanced and conciliatory attitude” toward Vatican II and its reforms as affirmed in the letter


    Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    At the airport, Prof. Plinio, left, leaves Rome after the first session of Vatican II
    Answer: No, it is not true. He was one of the first leaders of the Resistance against the novelties that came from Vatican II. During the whole first session of the Council (1962) he was in Rome following the debates. When he perceived that the progressivist wing was trying to protect Communism, he wrote the essay The Freedom of the Church in a Communist State, which was first written to be spread among the conciliar Fathers and helped to stimulate the petition that hundreds of Bishops signed asking the Pope for a solemn condemnation of Communism in the Council. Cardinal Giuseppe Pizzardo and Archbishop Dino Staffa, respectively Prefect and Secretary of the Congregation of Seminars and Universities, who were expressive figures of the conservative wing of Prelates at Vatican II, wrote a letter praising this work of Prof. Plinio and recognizing its importance.

     Another work of Prof. Plinio was on the topic of dialogue and ecuмenism – Unperceived Ideological Transshipment and Dialogue. It was published in 1965 during the fourth and last session of Vatican II. The more profound purpose of this book was to break the spell of the dialogue launched simultaneously by John XXIII and Communist leaders to encourage an atmosphere of mutual collaboration between Catholics and Communists. The dangerous emotional climate created by ecuмenism with false religions was also pointed out in the book to de-mythify the fad for dialogue that was rapidly gaining ground in the Catholic religious milieu.

     In 1970 and 1971 he wrote forceful articles against the indirect support Paul VI gave to the installment of Communism in Chile. In 1971 he clearly and publicly declared that the conciliar Popes should not be followed should they teach against private property or try to destroy the “Constantine Church.” He also clearly criticized Vatican II for not having condemned Communism. In 1974 he wrote his famous Declaration of Resistance against the Vatican policy of Ostpolitik. In that same year, from April to December, he wrote a series of articles showing different aspects of his Resistance to some of the Vatican positions. TIA plans to post some of these invaluable pieces on its website.

     With regard to the new Mass, it was Prof. Plinio who invited a Brazilian scholar – Arnaldo Xavier da Silveira – to make a careful study about the Protestant tendency of the Novus Ordo and the eventuality of a Pope falling into heresy and schism, as well as a study to know when ecclesiastical laws are infallible. This scholar wrote a book on these topics, and Prof. Plinio took the initiative to publish this work in 1970. Afterward he sent it to all of the more than 300 Brazilian Bishops, with the approval of and a letter of recommendation by Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer. Prof. Plinio also encouraged the author to publish the book in French (1975), which was done. During his lifetime TFP members were not allowed to attend the new Mass.

     In 1982 he invited Atila Guimarães to write his collection on Vatican II, and planned to publish it around the end of 1995. He died before that.

     Many other similar actions could be listed here. What the facts clearly show is that the position of Prof. Plinio regarding Vatican II and the new Mass in no way can be considered “discrete” or “conciliatory.”

     8. Question: Would you describe the general lines of TFP, and explain how they differ from those of TIA?

     Answer: Until Prof. Plinio’s death, TFP was well known for being in the front line of the anti-Progressivist and anti-Communist fights. After his death, one might say that the organization rolled up its standards and abandoned these battles.

     With regard to Progressivism, today TFP restrains its combat to skirmishes with several radical progressivists, leaving free ground to the non-radical enemies who have infiltrated the Church to continue their plan of destruction. It was these same subtle enemies who in times past TFP used to denounce. Before Prof. Plinio’s death TFP used to be a scourge of the progressivist and concessive Bishops; today it has become a sycophant of them. Its fight against Progressivism has been replaced by some few other actions – against abortion and blasphemous films. Laudable actions, without a doubt. But lacking any special risk, they no longer constitute the audacious fight that characterized the entity in times past.

     Regarding the anti-Communist fight, the organization made no significant action to prevent the election of Lula, a Communist, as president of Brazil. It made no serious denunciation of the strong support the Catholic Hierarchy gave him, which brought him to power. Again, the organization that under Prof Plinio’s presidency had prevented Lula from being elected several times, did practically nothing to stop his election in October 2002. The other actions of TFP against Communism consist of small scuffles turned to particular points trying to keep the day-to-day bourgeois establishment working. Certainly they are not bad actions, but they are drastically insufficient. The present day TFP members seem like sailors obstinately trying to maintain the day-to-day order on a Titanic that is sinking.

     Regarding the general mentality reigning in the organization, it is sad to consider the change: the abandonment of grandeur and the embracing of mediocrity.

     These certainly are not the lines of TIA. We try to remain faithful to the militant and counter-revolutionary orientation of Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira both in the religious sphere, that is, the fight against Progressivism that has infiltrated the Church, and in the temporal sphere, that is, the fight against Communism and its more recent consequences, such as self-managing Socialism, Ecology, and the Cultural Revolution.

     

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    Posted February 5, 2003


    Offline ThatBritPapist

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    Re: TIA and TFP
    « Reply #1 on: April 04, 2025, 02:58:35 PM »
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  • https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/A004_tfp.htm


    What People Are Asking

    donateBooksCDsHOMEupdatessearchcontact

    Questions about the Past and Present Day
     Relations between TIA and TFP

    TIA has received many questions from its supporters and readers
     regarding its links to TFP. It was judged opportune to address
    these questions here as an ensemble.

     1. Question: Was there ever any relationship between TIA – Tradition in Action – and TFP – Tradition, Family and Property?

     Answer: As for the two organizations, there were few links from the past because TIA is much more recent than TFP. TIA’s public life started after 1995, the year of the death of Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.

     Some of the members of TIA, however, did have past links with TFP. Mr. Atila S. Guimarães was an associate of the Brazilian TFP from 1964 until 1998 when he was excluded from the board of the organization. Dr. Marian T. Horvat also collaborated in many ways with American TFP from 1977 until approximately the same time.

     The cordial relations of both Atila Guimarães and Marian Horvat with TFP ceased when they published the book In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. There is no relationship at present – official or otherwise – between the two organizations.

     2. Question: Could you explain in more detail what led to this rupture?

     Answer: The main reason was that, given the accelerated destruction inside Holy Mother Church, Tradition in Action judged it necessary to publish the work of Guimarães analyzing Vatican Council II with the hope of changing the present day religious situation. TFP objected strongly to this action. That antagonism was translated into two facts:

    • A.S. Guimarães decided to publish the first book of his collection on Vatican Council II, and the American edition was launched in November 1997 under the responsibility of TIA.
    • The new president of the Brazilian TFP wrote a letter some days later demanding that Guimarães remove the book from circulation. He gave two basic reasons: first, according to him Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira did not want to publish the collection on the Council in our days, and second, the Brazilian TFP board of directors also did not want to publish it.
    3. Question: Were these arguments correct?


    A004SDP-ASGinstudy.jpg - 50830 Bytes
    Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, left, edits the Portuguese text of In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. Atila Sinke Guimarães, at right, takes note of the corrections. They are working in front of a small statue of Our Lady of Good Success.
    Answer: No and yes. No, the first argument is not correct, because Prof. Plinio did want to publish the collection on Vatican II to try to change the present day religious situation. Yes, the second reason is correct, because the directors of the Brazilian TFP positively did not want to publish it.

     4. Question: Is it possible to be more specific about the intentions of Prof. Plinio?

     Answer: Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira invited A.S. Guimarães to write the collection on the Council and gave him the necessary intellectual and material assistance to do so from 1982 until 1995 when he died, that is, for all the years it took the author to write and edit the 11 volumes. During this time, Prof. Plinio also spoke to him about his plans for the future of the collection. The author gave some of those guidelines in the introduction of In the Murky Waters of Vatican II.

     In November 1997, after Guimarães received the ultimatum demanding that he remove the book from circulation, he responded by writing a long answer (253 pages in English; 245 pages in Portuguese) addressing the objections presented by the Brazilian TFP president. In that defense he reproduced innumerable texts in which Prof. Plinio supported and stimulated not only the writing of the collection, but also its publication as soon as possible. Guimarães had tape-recorded and typed many of the meetings in which he received this orientation directly from Prof. Plinio.

     After he finished writing his defense in March 1998, Guimarães asked two witnesses to deliver the work to the TFP president, which was done. He also printed 500 copies of this docuмent and tried to spread it among TFP members. Since the letter condemning him had been widely circulated within the TFP, it seemed fair that the members should know the refutation to it. To this day there has been no response from the directors to the defense. Further, they forbade the members to read it, and have continued to spread the fabrication that Prof. Plinio did not want to publish Guimarães’ books on the Council.

     5. Question: Why did the Brazilian president of TFP and its board of directors try to forbid Guimarães from publishing his book in 1997?

     Answer: In several discussions with the author prior to the ultimatum, the directors avowed that as they were intellectually unprepared to face a public polemic with the religious authority, they did not want to stir up any waters. Even if one sets aside the truth of the first statement, the decision to avoid a public polemic, which in effect meant deserting the battlefront, raised a grave moral problem. Many times in History, Catholics with inferior means have been called to face enemies with superior resources. They did not run away from the fight. They had the courage to face the enemy and trusted in Divine Providence to give them assistance to win.

     In the case of the TFP and the fight against Progressivism in the Church the same principle should be applied. Therefore, what was condemnable in the attitude of the directors was that they lacked courage to continue the struggle, and lacked faith in Divine Providence to fill the vacuum created by their own deficient preparation for the situation.

     There was, in addition, another important reason why those directors did not want to enter into any polemic with the religious authority, a reason that Guimarães learned of two years after its occurrence. This was the existence of a clear-cut compromise made between the TFP directors and the ecclesiastic structure, by which they committed to refrain from any public discussion on Vatican II and the reforms that came from it. The directors sent a letter containing this promise to the Cardinal Primate of Brazil, then Cardinal Lucas Moreira Neves, giving him the guarantee that the TFP would no longer combat Vatican II and its consequences.

     6. Question: Is it possible to know the content of this letter?

     Answer: Yes, it is. Guimarães reproduced the main parts of it in his defense. These parts will be posted below.

     The letter was dated September 18, 1995. It was written and sent without the consent of Prof. Plinio, who was in the hospital and died two weeks later on October 3, 1995. The pretext for the letter was to clarify some points for Cardinal Moreira Neves, who days before had attacked TFP as opposed to Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae. The letter was signed by Canon José Luiz Villac, an ecclesiastic who was chosen to represent the directors in the agreement. In the docuмent, he speaks, in fact, as a representative of the directors and the whole organization. The letter was delivered, but the agreement was kept quiet. Only a handful of persons knew about its existence. The great majority of TFP members did not know about this official compromise of the directorate then, and perhaps they are still unaware of it today.

     Here are the more important excerpts:
    From the time the letter was written until today, all the practical evidence indicates that the TFP is keeping its side of that bargain, maintaining a position of non-militancy in face of the infiltration of Progressivism in the Catholic Hierarchy.

     In contrast, TIA is assuming a position of active fight and public resistance.

     7. Question: Is it true that under Prof. Plinio’s presidency, the TFP always took a “discrete position” and a “balanced and conciliatory attitude” toward Vatican II and its reforms as affirmed in the letter


    Plinio Correa de Oliveira
    At the airport, Prof. Plinio, left, leaves Rome after the first session of Vatican II
    Answer: No, it is not true. He was one of the first leaders of the Resistance against the novelties that came from Vatican II. During the whole first session of the Council (1962) he was in Rome following the debates. When he perceived that the progressivist wing was trying to protect Communism, he wrote the essay The Freedom of the Church in a Communist State, which was first written to be spread among the conciliar Fathers and helped to stimulate the petition that hundreds of Bishops signed asking the Pope for a solemn condemnation of Communism in the Council. Cardinal Giuseppe Pizzardo and Archbishop Dino Staffa, respectively Prefect and Secretary of the Congregation of Seminars and Universities, who were expressive figures of the conservative wing of Prelates at Vatican II, wrote a letter praising this work of Prof. Plinio and recognizing its importance.

     Another work of Prof. Plinio was on the topic of dialogue and ecuмenism – Unperceived Ideological Transshipment and Dialogue. It was published in 1965 during the fourth and last session of Vatican II. The more profound purpose of this book was to break the spell of the dialogue launched simultaneously by John XXIII and Communist leaders to encourage an atmosphere of mutual collaboration between Catholics and Communists. The dangerous emotional climate created by ecuмenism with false religions was also pointed out in the book to de-mythify the fad for dialogue that was rapidly gaining ground in the Catholic religious milieu.

     In 1970 and 1971 he wrote forceful articles against the indirect support Paul VI gave to the installment of Communism in Chile. In 1971 he clearly and publicly declared that the conciliar Popes should not be followed should they teach against private property or try to destroy the “Constantine Church.” He also clearly criticized Vatican II for not having condemned Communism. In 1974 he wrote his famous Declaration of Resistance against the Vatican policy of Ostpolitik. In that same year, from April to December, he wrote a series of articles showing different aspects of his Resistance to some of the Vatican positions. TIA plans to post some of these invaluable pieces on its website.

     With regard to the new Mass, it was Prof. Plinio who invited a Brazilian scholar – Arnaldo Xavier da Silveira – to make a careful study about the Protestant tendency of the Novus Ordo and the eventuality of a Pope falling into heresy and schism, as well as a study to know when ecclesiastical laws are infallible. This scholar wrote a book on these topics, and Prof. Plinio took the initiative to publish this work in 1970. Afterward he sent it to all of the more than 300 Brazilian Bishops, with the approval of and a letter of recommendation by Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer. Prof. Plinio also encouraged the author to publish the book in French (1975), which was done. During his lifetime TFP members were not allowed to attend the new Mass.

     In 1982 he invited Atila Guimarães to write his collection on Vatican II, and planned to publish it around the end of 1995. He died before that.

     Many other similar actions could be listed here. What the facts clearly show is that the position of Prof. Plinio regarding Vatican II and the new Mass in no way can be considered “discrete” or “conciliatory.”

     8. Question: Would you describe the general lines of TFP, and explain how they differ from those of TIA?

     Answer: Until Prof. Plinio’s death, TFP was well known for being in the front line of the anti-Progressivist and anti-Communist fights. After his death, one might say that the organization rolled up its standards and abandoned these battles.

     With regard to Progressivism, today TFP restrains its combat to skirmishes with several radical progressivists, leaving free ground to the non-radical enemies who have infiltrated the Church to continue their plan of destruction. It was these same subtle enemies who in times past TFP used to denounce. Before Prof. Plinio’s death TFP used to be a scourge of the progressivist and concessive Bishops; today it has become a sycophant of them. Its fight against Progressivism has been replaced by some few other actions – against abortion and blasphemous films. Laudable actions, without a doubt. But lacking any special risk, they no longer constitute the audacious fight that characterized the entity in times past.

     Regarding the anti-Communist fight, the organization made no significant action to prevent the election of Lula, a Communist, as president of Brazil. It made no serious denunciation of the strong support the Catholic Hierarchy gave him, which brought him to power. Again, the organization that under Prof Plinio’s presidency had prevented Lula from being elected several times, did practically nothing to stop his election in October 2002. The other actions of TFP against Communism consist of small scuffles turned to particular points trying to keep the day-to-day bourgeois establishment working. Certainly they are not bad actions, but they are drastically insufficient. The present day TFP members seem like sailors obstinately trying to maintain the day-to-day order on a Titanic that is sinking.

     Regarding the general mentality reigning in the organization, it is sad to consider the change: the abandonment of grandeur and the embracing of mediocrity.

     These certainly are not the lines of TIA. We try to remain faithful to the militant and counter-revolutionary orientation of Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira both in the religious sphere, that is, the fight against Progressivism that has infiltrated the Church, and in the temporal sphere, that is, the fight against Communism and its more recent consequences, such as self-managing Socialism, Ecology, and the Cultural Revolution.

     

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    Posted February 5, 2003
    I've already talked about all the rebuttals here and on other TIA/Atila Publications in the previous thread I made.

    Maybe instead of copying and pasting TIA Propaganda why not engage in my previous Thread on the TFP and TIA, no hard feelings , its just not compelling for a random new account to post all of this and bury the hatchet on the previous thread

    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:


    Offline Cera

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    Re: TIA and TFP
    « Reply #2 on: April 05, 2025, 02:06:17 PM »
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  • I get it Newbie Mat, you have drunk the cult kool-aide. 
    Are your actually previous cult-member Marcus? 
    I continue to pray that the Lord will give Marcus and other cult members the gift of discernment so they will come to understand the truth about the TIA/TFP Plinio-worshipping cult.

    Only after the truth about TIA being a Plinio-worshipping cult did Atila put out this spin article in a lame attempt to distance himself from TFP. His continued worship of Plinio proves otherwise. Both groups AT THE TOP worship Plinio. This is similar to Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ which is satanic at he top, about which the "porch Masons" know nothing.



    LETTER OF BISHOP DE CASTRO MAYER ON THE TFP

    (The following letter, addressed to a layman friend, dated 1984, was published in the Brazilian newspaper Folha da Manhã in 1991)

    Dear N.,

    I owe you an answer to your painful letter of September 24 [1984] that, as the postmark indicates, you sent me on September 25th.

    In this case I can only give you one advice: pray, pray a lot, above all the [15 decade] Rosary or at least the [5 decade] Rosary, asking the Virgin Mother, Mediatrix of all graces, to enlighten her son and make him see that the TFP is a heretical sect because, in fact, although they do not say or write, the TFP lives and behaves according to a principle that fundamentally undermines the truth of Christendom, that is, of the Catholic Church.

    Indeed, it is de fide that Jesus Christ founded His Church - designed to keep the true worship of God on earth and to bring souls to eternal salvation - as an unequal society composed of two classes: one that governs, teaches, and sanctifies, composed of members of the clergy, and another - the faithful - who receive the teaching, are governed and sanctified: This is a dogma de fide.

    St. Pius X wrote that the Church is, in its own nature, an unequal society, meaning that it comprises two orders of persons: shepherds and flock, those belonging to the various levels of the hierarchy, and the multitude of the faithful. These two orders are so utterly distinct that only the hierarchy has the right and authority to guide and govern the members for the purposes of the Church, while the duty of the faithful is to let themselves to be governed and to obediently follow the given path by the ruling class. (Encyclical "Vehementer", February 11, 1906.) The whole history of the Church, as can be seen in the New Testament, attests to this truth as a fundamental dogma of the Church's constitution. It was only to the Apostles that Jesus said, "Go and teach all nations." Also the Acts of the Apostles show us the life of the Church in the times after Jesus Christ. Because of this, it is a heretical subversion to usually follow a layman - therefore a non-member of the Hierarchy - as a spokesman for orthodoxy. So they do not look at what the Church says, what the bishops say, but what this or that [layman] says... And it does not end there: this attitude - even if not openly stated - in fact positions the "leader" as the arbiter of orthodoxy, and is accompanied by a sudden but real mistrust of the hierarchy and clergy in general.

    There is a visceral anti-clericalism in the TFP: everything that comes from the clergy is biasedly received. Basically, it is affirmed that all priests are ignorant, lacking zeal or interested and such other characteristics. Well, thus, having in mind the divine constitution of the Church which was instituted by Jesus Christ, the habitual anti-clericalism of the TFP, latent, makes it a heretical sect, and therefore, as I said, animated by a principle contrary to established dogma by Jesus Christ in the constitution of His Church.

    The TFP, however, had a healthy beginning. There was a certain evolution in the apostolate made by the biweekly newspaper of the Marian Congregation of St. Cecilia entitled The Legionary.

    As a serious and well-intentioned movement, it sought to strengthen the intellectual and religious formation of the members of the Congregation and, consequently, of the biweekly readers. It was influential throughout Brazil. This was the era of [its] obedience to Monsignors Duarte and Leme. I followed and approved of its apostolate, also when it began to fall itself into the anti-clerical spirit, which began by consolidating its positions and then reversing them, putting the Clergy in tow behind a charismatic layman with the monopoly of orthodoxy. Maybe I gave them support beyond a licit point. I withdrew it only when it became clear that my warnings were not being taken into account. They have become useless.

    It is true to note that the deceptions of certain members of the Hierarchy... explain the scandal of the "TFPists", but this does not justify the positions they have taken. And much less for its leader, Plinio.

    In this case, as I said at the beginning of this letter, the remedy is to pray. First, because without prayer nothing is obtained: "Ask," says Our Lord, "and you will receive." It is necessary to pray because charismatic fervor produces a certain fanaticism: individuals become incapable of seeing the objective reality, of perceiving even fundamental errors, because of this inversion of following a layman instead of the legitimate Pastors of the Holy Church. 
    As I have noted, members of the hierarchy unfortunately and often utter words and take positions that any Catholic can see as dissonant of the doctrine and government of the Church of all times...

    I ask Our Lord to give you, and your whole family, a Holy and Merry Christmas and many years full of the grace of God.

    I pray that you pray for me, a servant in Christ Jesus.

    Antônio de Castro Mayer, Bishop Emeritus of Campos.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Cera

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    Re: TIA and TFP
    « Reply #3 on: April 05, 2025, 02:09:25 PM »
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  • The head of TIA, Atila Sinke Guimarães, has never denied being a worshipper of layman (not a doctor) Mr. Plinio Márcio. He was/is slave # 11, who lay on his face before Mr. Plinio and said a public confession to this layman who they worshipped, along with worshipping Plinio's deceased mother with a litany. Nor has Atila has never denied praying to Mr. Plinio this prayer I am not the one who lives but it is My Lord ( Dr. Pliny) that lives in me. From him all graces come for me, his spirit dwells in me. Nor has Atila, head of TIA ever denied saying this mockery of the Ave Maria:
    "Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia ( official name of Doctor Pliny in Sacred Slavery ), full of love and hate, the Most Holy Virgin is with you you are blessed among the faithful, and the fruit of your love and your hate, which is the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn, is blessed. O Sacral Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us lame (capen gas) and sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen "

    See this docuмent:

    The following article is taken from La Tradizione Cattolica , new series, Year IX, n. 38-1998, reproducing the deposition of the TFP affiliate Luiz Filipe de Freitas Guimaraes Abias, Curitiba, 24 August 1984.

    The statement was registered in the Public Archives (August 24, 1984) and published on March 14, 1985 by "Folha da Manha"; Campos, RJ, Brazil.

    I, the undersigned, Filipe de Freitas Guimarães Ablas, RG (General Register) 3,706,587, SP, unmarried, resident in Curitiba (Brazil), C.so Manoel Ribas, no. 418, I declare to be true that, when I belonged to the TFP, Brazilian Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property, in 1967 I entered a secret society of that association, called "Sacra Slavitù", also known by its members as "Always Living ".
    The members of this secret society have made a consecration of themselves as slaves of Doctor Atila Sinke Guimarães - slave Plinio Márcio. in the same sense that St. Louis Grignion de Montfort recommended doing it to Our Lady. For this consecration as a slave to Doctor Pliny the same text established by St. Louis for the consecration to the Madonna was used, with some adaptations. We proceeded in this way because Doctor Pliny was considered to have the same spirit of the Madonna since he was one with the Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary. The members of the said society prayed daily using the following prayer of the "Sacred Slavery", composed by Doctor Pliny himself:
    "Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary, in this atmosphere of our days in which all are free men, drunk with freedom, I know that I have made myself your slave to be like the last of the men of which My Lord ( Dr. Pliny ) can to dispose of as a miserable object without a will of its own. In this atmosphere of our days in which everything speaks of naturalism, I know that my life is entirely supernatural. I am not the one who lives but it is My Lord ( Dr. Pliny) that lives in me. From him all graces come for me, his spirit dwells in me, and I can do, in this union as a slave, all that he himself can. In this climate of our days, without greatness, without horizons, of optimism and mediocrity, I know that our age will bring us grandiose events, with grandiose horizons in which I will have to live as a hero the same greatness of My Lord. Looking within myself and seeing so much smallness, I know that faith in all that I have just said will give me a participation in the very greatness of My Lord ( Doctor Pliny ), and will make myself a perfect Apostle of the end times. , according to the prophetic prayer of St. Louis Grignion de Montfort. In all this I believe, but, oh my Lord (Doctor Pliny), help my unbelief ".
    A parody of the Hail Mary towards him (the Doctor) was also recited as a prayer , which incorporated the prophecies of St. Louis, St. Elijah and himself:
    "Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia ( official name of Doctor Pliny in Sacred Slavery ), full of love and hate, the Most Holy Virgin is with you you are blessed among the faithful, and the fruit of your love and your hate, which is the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn, is blessed. O Sacral Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us lame (capen gas) and sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen ".
    The rosary was also recited using this Hail Mary. The meetings also began with the same Hail Mary, the aforementioned prayer of the Sacred Slavery and with the ejaculations: " Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and of the Kingdom of Mary! Ave, Luigi Plinio Elia, most faithful slave of Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary! "There were also Litanies for him, the Doctor, and it was said that they had been composed by Marcos Ribeiro Dantas (slave Pliny Paul).
    In one of these ejaculations to Doctor Pliny it was said: " Precursor of Elijah, pray for us! "
     
    Doctor Pliny also gave the blessing to his slaves. Sometimes, when they received it, they would lie on the ground with their faces turned upwards and then Doctor Pliny placed his right foot on their face and gave the blessing saying: "Benedictio Matris et Mediatricis descendat super vos et maneat semper ".
    Doctor Pliny's slaves used to confess to him, telling him their shortcomings and even their sins. After the accusation, if the slave asked him for a penance, Doctor Pliny had the habit of giving three slaps on the face of the slave. He later gave the blessing.
    The entry into the "Always Living" took place, through a ceremony that lasted a few hours, in the building on Via Alagoas, on the second floor of the house, and sometimes in other places.
    Doctor Pliny was seated in a small throne with the habit and cloak of the Carmelite Third Order. The assistants used the dress without the cloak. The person who was about to be introduced into the said society stretched out as if dead, prostrated himself on the ground in front of Doctor Pliny. At this point, from Doctor Pliny, he received the order to get up for a new life and he (the Doctor Ed.), Said to him: " Exsurge ". This meant that the person had died and a new man was born, a slave of the prophet, an Apostle of the end times.
    The person then fulfilled his consecration as a slave to Doctor Pliny and gave him all his being and his material and spiritual goods. This was done by handing him symbolic objects. Doctor Pliny acquired an absolute right over the slave as in Roman law, except for the right of life and death. This is why they call him " Dominus Plinius ".
     
    The ceremony continued to reach the kiss of the feet and hands of the prophet (Doctor Pliny) by the slave. Then, Doctor Pliny left the throne and made his new slave sit there, since he was now a new Pliny. Doctor Pliny kissed the feet and hands of his new slave. Then, as a result of a transforming union that took place between them, one lived in the other. The slave was a new Pliny. For this reason, he adopted the name of Pliny, composing it with another of a patron and a title of Our Lady. For example, I chose that of Pliny Bernardo Dimas Longinos of Our Lady, Holy Queen of the Apostles of the last times. I was known as Plinio Dimas. The existence of "Sacred Slavery" could not be communicated to the other members of the TFP,
    The first twelve slaves were:
    1) Caio Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - slave Mário Pliny. 2) Eduardo Barros Brotero - Pliny Eduardo slave. 3) Luiz Nazareno d'Assunpção Filho - slave Pliny Luiz. 4) João Scognamiglio Clà Dias - slave Pliny Fernando. 5) Humberto Braccese - slave Plinio Cirineu. 6) Fernando Siqueira - Bernardo slave. 7) Carlos Espírito Hofmeister Poli -slave Plinio José. 8) Marcos Ribeiro Dantes - Pliny Paulo slave. 9) Mário Navarro da Costa - slave Pliny Elias. 10) Dom Bertrand de Orleans and Bragança - slave Plinio Miguel. 11) Atila Sinke Guimarães - slave Plinio Márcio. 12) Cosme Beccar Varella Hijo-slave Plinio Lázaro.
    As time passed, other people entered the "Always Living". They are:
    13) Pliny Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - slave Pliny Elizeu. 14) Paulo Corrêa de Brito Filho - slave Pliny Jeremias. 15) Luiz Filipe Ablas - slave Pliny Dimas. 16) "X" - slave Plinio Inácio. 17) Dom Luiz de Orleans and Bragança - slave Plinio da Cruz. 18) Antônio Marcelino Pereira de Almeida - slave Pliny Francisco. 19) Edson Neves da Silva - slave Pliny Batista. 20) Fernando Antunes Aldunate - slave Pliny Longinos. 21) Leo Nino Doscolo Daniele - slave Plinio Tobias. 22) Fernando Furquin de Almeida Filho - slave Pliny Amen. 23) Martim Afonso Xavier da Silveira Jr. - slave Plinio Pedro. 24) Sergio Bidueira - slave Pliny Hildebrando. 25) José Lúcio de Araújo Correia - slave Plinio Ezquiel. 26) Julio Ubeold - slave Pliny Tomaz. 27) Fernado Teles - slave Plinio Leofredo. 28) Roberto Guerreiro - slave Pliny Agostinho. 29) Afonso Becar Verella - slave Plinio Ambrósio. 30) Miguel Becar Verella - Pliny Domingos slave. 31) Carlos Viano - slave Plinio Godofredo. 32) The Argentine Escurra - slave Pliny Leon. 33) Carlos Antunez Aldunate - slave Plinio Emanuel. 34) Jaime Antunez Aldunate - slave Plinio Gregório. 35) Gonzalo Larrain - slave Plinio Caetano. 36) Patricio Larrain - Pliny João slave. 37) Patrício Amunategui - slave Pliny Santiago. 38) Casté - slave Pliny Joaquim. 39) Pedro Paulo Figueiredo - slave Plinio Jacó '. 40) Carlos Alberto Soares Correia - slave Plinio Atenásio. 41) Aloisio Torres - slave Pliny Macabeu. 42) Roberto Esper Kalás - slave Plinio Bento. 43) Paulo Roberto Rosa - Pliny Tiago slave. 44) Paulo Cesar Nascimento - slave Pliny Henoc. 45) Lúcio Montes - slave Plinio Estevão. 46) "Y" - slave Pliny Afonso. 47) João Carlos Leal da Costa - slave Plinio Matatias. 48) Francisco Xavier Tosto - slave Pliny Isaias. 49) José Antônio Tosto - slave Plinio Sebastian. 50) "Z" - slave Pliny Clóvis. 51) Guerreiro Dantas - slave Plinio Davi. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave.
    There were others who, at the time, were not received in the "Always Living", but were equally slaves of Doctor Plinio: Antonio Candido Lara Ducca - Ducca slave and Carlos Eduardo Schafer - Schafer slave.
    Speaking of his own power and his slaves, Doctor Pliny asked: " What is the power of the Pope compared to all this? "
     
    It was said among the slaves that the "Secret of Mary", of which St. Louis Grignion de Montfort speaks is probably the institution of the "Sacred Slavery" towards Doctor Pliny.
    Doctor Pliny was then designated with the nickname "Maria", since Mary's slave was Pliny's slave.
    Slaves used to ask for graces, kneeling before Doctor Pliny. For example, Cosme Beccar Varella Hijo, in his consecration, asked "My Lord" for the grace of becoming a widower.
    I would also like to declare that I myself consecrated myself as the son of Donna Lucilia (mother of Doctor Pliny), kneeling in her tomb, in the presence of Doctor Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira and his personal guards.
      

    Curitiba, August 24, 1984
    Luiz Filipe de Freitas Guimaraes Abias
      

    Witnesses to the deposition:
    Orlando Fedeli 1.433.401, RG
    Giulio Folena 2.481.149, RG.
    Cartorio Ramos, Second Civil Registration Office, Titles and Docuмents, Via Mal. Floriano Peixoto, 986 - Tel. 224-2444.
    Declaration presented today. Drawn up and recorded on microfilm (no. 544948). Archive number: 330009.

    The articles originally appearing on this site may be reproduced freely,
     both in electronic and paper format, provided that
     nothing is changed, that the source is specified - the Kelebek website http://www.kelebekler.com -
     and that also publish this clarification.
     For articles taken from other sources, consult the respective sites or authors

    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Mat183

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    Re: TIA and TFP
    « Reply #4 on: April 08, 2025, 10:19:15 AM »
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  • I've already talked about all the rebuttals here and on other TIA/Atila Publications in the previous thread I made.

    Maybe instead of copying and pasting TIA Propaganda why not engage in my previous Thread on the TFP and TIA, no hard feelings , its just not compelling for a random new account to post all of this and bury the hatchet on the previous thread
    I was not aware of your previous thread.  In any event, I am not a follower of either TIA or TFP.  My post was merely for purposes of discussion.  Although there is a lot of good solid Catholic material on the TIA website, there is also a great degree of poison for those with eyes to see.


    Offline Mat183

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    Re: TIA and TFP
    « Reply #5 on: April 08, 2025, 10:26:55 AM »
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  • I get it Newbie Mat, you have drunk the cult kool-aide.
    Are your actually previous cult-member Marcus?
    Wrong on the first count and no to your question.  Thank you very much for posting that great and monumental letter from "The Mouth of the Lion."

    Offline Mat183

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    Re: TIA and TFP
    « Reply #6 on: April 08, 2025, 10:29:39 AM »
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  • The head of TIA, Atila Sinke Guimarães, has never denied being a worshipper of layman (not a doctor) Mr. Plinio Márcio. He was/is slave # 11, who lay on his face before Mr. Plinio and said a public confession to this layman who they worshipped, along with worshipping Plinio's deceased mother with a litany. Nor has Atila has never denied praying to Mr. Plinio this prayer I am not the one who lives but it is My Lord ( Dr. Pliny) that lives in me. From him all graces come for me, his spirit dwells in me. Nor has Atila, head of TIA ever denied saying this mockery of the Ave Maria:
    "Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia ( official name of Doctor Pliny in Sacred Slavery ), full of love and hate, the Most Holy Virgin is with you you are blessed among the faithful, and the fruit of your love and your hate, which is the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn, is blessed. O Sacral Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us lame (capen gas) and sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen "

    See this docuмent:

    The following article is taken from La Tradizione Cattolica , new series, Year IX, n. 38-1998, reproducing the deposition of the TFP affiliate Luiz Filipe de Freitas Guimaraes Abias, Curitiba, 24 August 1984.

    The statement was registered in the Public Archives (August 24, 1984) and published on March 14, 1985 by "Folha da Manha"; Campos, RJ, Brazil.

    I, the undersigned, Filipe de Freitas Guimarães Ablas, RG (General Register) 3,706,587, SP, unmarried, resident in Curitiba (Brazil), C.so Manoel Ribas, no. 418, I declare to be true that, when I belonged to the TFP, Brazilian Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property, in 1967 I entered a secret society of that association, called "Sacra Slavitù", also known by its members as "Always Living ".
    The members of this secret society have made a consecration of themselves as slaves of Doctor Atila Sinke Guimarães - slave Plinio Márcio. in the same sense that St. Louis Grignion de Montfort recommended doing it to Our Lady. For this consecration as a slave to Doctor Pliny the same text established by St. Louis for the consecration to the Madonna was used, with some adaptations. We proceeded in this way because Doctor Pliny was considered to have the same spirit of the Madonna since he was one with the Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary. The members of the said society prayed daily using the following prayer of the "Sacred Slavery", composed by Doctor Pliny himself:
    "Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary, in this atmosphere of our days in which all are free men, drunk with freedom, I know that I have made myself your slave to be like the last of the men of which My Lord ( Dr. Pliny ) can to dispose of as a miserable object without a will of its own. In this atmosphere of our days in which everything speaks of naturalism, I know that my life is entirely supernatural. I am not the one who lives but it is My Lord ( Dr. Pliny) that lives in me. From him all graces come for me, his spirit dwells in me, and I can do, in this union as a slave, all that he himself can. In this climate of our days, without greatness, without horizons, of optimism and mediocrity, I know that our age will bring us grandiose events, with grandiose horizons in which I will have to live as a hero the same greatness of My Lord. Looking within myself and seeing so much smallness, I know that faith in all that I have just said will give me a participation in the very greatness of My Lord ( Doctor Pliny ), and will make myself a perfect Apostle of the end times. , according to the prophetic prayer of St. Louis Grignion de Montfort. In all this I believe, but, oh my Lord (Doctor Pliny), help my unbelief ".
    A parody of the Hail Mary towards him (the Doctor) was also recited as a prayer , which incorporated the prophecies of St. Louis, St. Elijah and himself:
    "Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia ( official name of Doctor Pliny in Sacred Slavery ), full of love and hate, the Most Holy Virgin is with you you are blessed among the faithful, and the fruit of your love and your hate, which is the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn, is blessed. O Sacral Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us lame (capen gas) and sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen ".
    The rosary was also recited using this Hail Mary. The meetings also began with the same Hail Mary, the aforementioned prayer of the Sacred Slavery and with the ejaculations: " Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and of the Kingdom of Mary! Ave, Luigi Plinio Elia, most faithful slave of Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary! "There were also Litanies for him, the Doctor, and it was said that they had been composed by Marcos Ribeiro Dantas (slave Pliny Paul).
    In one of these ejaculations to Doctor Pliny it was said: " Precursor of Elijah, pray for us! "
     
    Doctor Pliny also gave the blessing to his slaves. Sometimes, when they received it, they would lie on the ground with their faces turned upwards and then Doctor Pliny placed his right foot on their face and gave the blessing saying: "Benedictio Matris et Mediatricis descendat super vos et maneat semper ".
    Doctor Pliny's slaves used to confess to him, telling him their shortcomings and even their sins. After the accusation, if the slave asked him for a penance, Doctor Pliny had the habit of giving three slaps on the face of the slave. He later gave the blessing.
    The entry into the "Always Living" took place, through a ceremony that lasted a few hours, in the building on Via Alagoas, on the second floor of the house, and sometimes in other places.
    Doctor Pliny was seated in a small throne with the habit and cloak of the Carmelite Third Order. The assistants used the dress without the cloak. The person who was about to be introduced into the said society stretched out as if dead, prostrated himself on the ground in front of Doctor Pliny. At this point, from Doctor Pliny, he received the order to get up for a new life and he (the Doctor Ed.), Said to him: " Exsurge ". This meant that the person had died and a new man was born, a slave of the prophet, an Apostle of the end times.
    The person then fulfilled his consecration as a slave to Doctor Pliny and gave him all his being and his material and spiritual goods. This was done by handing him symbolic objects. Doctor Pliny acquired an absolute right over the slave as in Roman law, except for the right of life and death. This is why they call him " Dominus Plinius ".
     
    The ceremony continued to reach the kiss of the feet and hands of the prophet (Doctor Pliny) by the slave. Then, Doctor Pliny left the throne and made his new slave sit there, since he was now a new Pliny. Doctor Pliny kissed the feet and hands of his new slave. Then, as a result of a transforming union that took place between them, one lived in the other. The slave was a new Pliny. For this reason, he adopted the name of Pliny, composing it with another of a patron and a title of Our Lady. For example, I chose that of Pliny Bernardo Dimas Longinos of Our Lady, Holy Queen of the Apostles of the last times. I was known as Plinio Dimas. The existence of "Sacred Slavery" could not be communicated to the other members of the TFP,
    The first twelve slaves were:
    1) Caio Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - slave Mário Pliny. 2) Eduardo Barros Brotero - Pliny Eduardo slave. 3) Luiz Nazareno d'Assunpção Filho - slave Pliny Luiz. 4) João Scognamiglio Clà Dias - slave Pliny Fernando. 5) Humberto Braccese - slave Plinio Cirineu. 6) Fernando Siqueira - Bernardo slave. 7) Carlos Espírito Hofmeister Poli -slave Plinio José. 8) Marcos Ribeiro Dantes - Pliny Paulo slave. 9) Mário Navarro da Costa - slave Pliny Elias. 10) Dom Bertrand de Orleans and Bragança - slave Plinio Miguel. 11) Atila Sinke Guimarães - slave Plinio Márcio. 12) Cosme Beccar Varella Hijo-slave Plinio Lázaro.
    As time passed, other people entered the "Always Living". They are:
    13) Pliny Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - slave Pliny Elizeu. 14) Paulo Corrêa de Brito Filho - slave Pliny Jeremias. 15) Luiz Filipe Ablas - slave Pliny Dimas. 16) "X" - slave Plinio Inácio. 17) Dom Luiz de Orleans and Bragança - slave Plinio da Cruz. 18) Antônio Marcelino Pereira de Almeida - slave Pliny Francisco. 19) Edson Neves da Silva - slave Pliny Batista. 20) Fernando Antunes Aldunate - slave Pliny Longinos. 21) Leo Nino Doscolo Daniele - slave Plinio Tobias. 22) Fernando Furquin de Almeida Filho - slave Pliny Amen. 23) Martim Afonso Xavier da Silveira Jr. - slave Plinio Pedro. 24) Sergio Bidueira - slave Pliny Hildebrando. 25) José Lúcio de Araújo Correia - slave Plinio Ezquiel. 26) Julio Ubeold - slave Pliny Tomaz. 27) Fernado Teles - slave Plinio Leofredo. 28) Roberto Guerreiro - slave Pliny Agostinho. 29) Afonso Becar Verella - slave Plinio Ambrósio. 30) Miguel Becar Verella - Pliny Domingos slave. 31) Carlos Viano - slave Plinio Godofredo. 32) The Argentine Escurra - slave Pliny Leon. 33) Carlos Antunez Aldunate - slave Plinio Emanuel. 34) Jaime Antunez Aldunate - slave Plinio Gregório. 35) Gonzalo Larrain - slave Plinio Caetano. 36) Patricio Larrain - Pliny João slave. 37) Patrício Amunategui - slave Pliny Santiago. 38) Casté - slave Pliny Joaquim. 39) Pedro Paulo Figueiredo - slave Plinio Jacó '. 40) Carlos Alberto Soares Correia - slave Plinio Atenásio. 41) Aloisio Torres - slave Pliny Macabeu. 42) Roberto Esper Kalás - slave Plinio Bento. 43) Paulo Roberto Rosa - Pliny Tiago slave. 44) Paulo Cesar Nascimento - slave Pliny Henoc. 45) Lúcio Montes - slave Plinio Estevão. 46) "Y" - slave Pliny Afonso. 47) João Carlos Leal da Costa - slave Plinio Matatias. 48) Francisco Xavier Tosto - slave Pliny Isaias. 49) José Antônio Tosto - slave Plinio Sebastian. 50) "Z" - slave Pliny Clóvis. 51) Guerreiro Dantas - slave Plinio Davi. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave.
    There were others who, at the time, were not received in the "Always Living", but were equally slaves of Doctor Plinio: Antonio Candido Lara Ducca - Ducca slave and Carlos Eduardo Schafer - Schafer slave.
    Speaking of his own power and his slaves, Doctor Pliny asked: " What is the power of the Pope compared to all this? "
     
    It was said among the slaves that the "Secret of Mary", of which St. Louis Grignion de Montfort speaks is probably the institution of the "Sacred Slavery" towards Doctor Pliny.
    Doctor Pliny was then designated with the nickname "Maria", since Mary's slave was Pliny's slave.
    Slaves used to ask for graces, kneeling before Doctor Pliny. For example, Cosme Beccar Varella Hijo, in his consecration, asked "My Lord" for the grace of becoming a widower.
    I would also like to declare that I myself consecrated myself as the son of Donna Lucilia (mother of Doctor Pliny), kneeling in her tomb, in the presence of Doctor Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira and his personal guards.
     

    Curitiba, August 24, 1984
    Luiz Filipe de Freitas Guimaraes Abias
     

    Witnesses to the deposition:
    Orlando Fedeli 1.433.401, RG
    Giulio Folena 2.481.149, RG.
    Cartorio Ramos, Second Civil Registration Office, Titles and Docuмents, Via Mal. Floriano Peixoto, 986 - Tel. 224-2444.
    Declaration presented today. Drawn up and recorded on microfilm (no. 544948). Archive number: 330009.

    The articles originally appearing on this site may be reproduced freely,
     both in electronic and paper format, provided that
     nothing is changed, that the source is specified - the Kelebek website http://www.kelebekler.com -
     and that also publish this clarification.
     For articles taken from other sources, consult the respective sites or authors
    Thanks Cera for sharing that important article along with the website.  Great docuмentation!

    Offline Cera

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    Re: TIA and TFP
    « Reply #7 on: April 08, 2025, 05:23:35 PM »
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  • I was not aware of your previous thread.  In any event, I am not a follower of either TIA or TFP.  My post was merely for purposes of discussion.  Although there is a lot of good solid Catholic material on the TIA website, there is also a great degree of poison for those with eyes to see.
    Thanks be to God for giving you this discernment. What you describe is exactly how controlled opposition works: 95 to 98% good info with which the target audience can be expected to agree -- is mixed in with poison, as you so aptly put it.
    To paraphrase Mary Poppins "A little bit of sugar helps the poison go down."
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Cera

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    Re: TIA and TFP
    « Reply #8 on: April 08, 2025, 05:24:33 PM »
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  • Wrong on the first count and no to your question.  Thank you very much for posting that great and monumental letter from "The Mouth of the Lion."
    Do you have that book? I understand it's difficult to obtain.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Mat183

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    Re: TIA and TFP
    « Reply #9 on: April 09, 2025, 01:54:54 PM »
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  • Do you have that book? I understand it's difficult to obtain.

    I had it at one time.  Unfortunately, it left and never came back.   Much to Dr. White's (R.I.P.) credit, it was a fantastic read.