[Zeitun]

It just dawned on me that all these threads on immodesty dressed females are IMMORAL.  We need to stop.  I'm guilty too.  Spending so much time thinking about these girls, recalling to mind their appearances......we are allowing ourselves to be used for satan's purpose.

He's a slick fellow.  I'm reading "Rules for Discerning Spirits" and these threads are exactly what is described in the book as ways satan uses good acts (admonishing others to be virtuous) to achieve his evil end (getting us to engage in lustful thoughts and look at girls bodies).

Well, that's my 2 cents.

[Matto]

I thought they would only be sinful if pictures were posted as they were on some of the threads.

[bowler]

It just dawned on me that all these threads on immodesty dressed females are IMMORAL.  We need to stop.  I'm guilty too.  Spending so much time thinking about these girls, recalling to mind their appearances......we are allowing ourselves to be used for satan's purpose.

He's a slick fellow.  I'm reading "Rules for Discerning Spirits" and these threads are exactly what is described in the book as ways satan uses good acts (admonishing others to be virtuous) to achieve his evil end (getting us to engage in lustful thoughts and look at girls bodies).

Well, that's my 2 cents.

If that were so, then no one could teach modesty.

We are attempting to educate the priests, parents, adults and teenagers. Yes, educate the priests!

[Telesphorus]

This is one of the number one ways that people who complain about immodesty are marginalized.

The claim is made that the problem is not immodesty, but their preoccupation with it.

I'm certainly not preoccupied with it.  Immodestly dressed women only trouble me on the bike trail or in summer months, or at the opera.

What I am preoccupied with is the pernicious way that excuses are made and tactics are used to liberalize traditional Catholics.

It is subversion, and it needs to be stamped out.  

[JMacQ]

This is the SSPX-Rome Agreement subforum

 :dancing:

[JMacQ]

Isn't it?

[John Grace]

This is the SSPX-Rome Agreement subforum

 :dancing:

I envisage Matthew or MD will move the posts.

[Charlotte NC Bill]

That's exactly right...Liberals use that " well, why do YOU have such a problem with it?" And put the focus on the person who objects to rank immodesty...that's why priests in the NO find it hard to preach about it...these people never hear about immodesty, don't know what it is..and if they thought about it they would think it pertains to strip clubs...that's how far gone they are..it's very hard to reach people that far gone.

[Cato]

I understand your point, but even in Traditional circles, female modesty is an area of great need.

[Telesphorus]

I understand your point, but even in Traditional circles, female modesty is an area of great need.

If Trads do not stand for modesty, who among Catholics will?

If those in other religions practice modesty and even traditional Catholics do not, what a horrible scandal and an insult to Our Faith.

[Rosarium]

It just dawned on me that all these threads on immodesty dressed females are IMMORAL.  We need to stop.  I'm guilty too.  Spending so much time thinking about these girls, recalling to mind their appearances......we are allowing ourselves to be used for satan's purpose.

He's a slick fellow.  I'm reading "Rules for Discerning Spirits" and these threads are exactly what is described in the book as ways satan uses good acts (admonishing others to be virtuous) to achieve his evil end (getting us to engage in lustful thoughts and look at girls bodies).

Well, that's my 2 cents.

Accusing others of sin (engaging in immorality) is a serious charge.

Modesty is a virtue. Immodesty is a vice. Acts of vice are sins. Immodesty is common in society and any vice which is rampant in society unchecked is likely to infect many faithful.

Forum activity is not indicative of the whole of human acts of a person. If a person were wholly occupied by the acts of others (admonishing people in the parish, constantly harassing people, etc), then that may be a sign of something wrong.

However, accusing others of being under the influence of Satan is something which requires more evidence. After all, one could make these same statements about your post, with much better chance of convincing, as it is against posting about Modesty.

It just dawned on me that this thread against threads on immodesty is immoral. It is defending vice, and condemning those who advocate virtue. It presumes to know the thoughts of others, thinking they spend time considering their appearances, without concern for the spirit. It seems to be of one mind of the Devil, knowing its thoughts and accusing others of lustful thoughts.

At best, I would say that the posting about immodesty (in general) is usually flawed as it does not address the fullness of the virtue, and often may reduce it to merely clothing and presentation of oneself to others. While immodest people are an occasion of sin for others (which may be the reason for the focus on this particular issue), modesty is more than that.

[Rosarium]

Concerning Immodesty Women and threads about them, the existence of immodest women being widespread should not be a surprise, however, the most troubling thing about such threads is not those who advocate modesty, but those who defend immodesty.

Maybe that is why it is a frequently discussed topic, because it is so often opposed.

Modesty is not a cultural standard, a personal comfort and familiarity, or other such things. It is a interior state of regulation of external acts and appearances to be holy and rightly ordered. The virtue is not an accident or a relative comparison to others. The issues of modesty exist in men and women, however, the most scandalous are in women, as they usually present a clear occasion of sin to others. Modesty is easy...even the most habitually immodest do not find it that difficult to be modesty if they choose. However, Chastity is not easy, and the immodest can lead others to Lust, therefore, it is a very important topic spiritually.

A few things I have observed:

* Accusing those scandalized of being perverts is not the Christian response. The antecedent movement of the passions to to lust caused by the immodest is involuntary and not a sin, however, it is an occasion of sin (so the immodest are scandalous, potentially gravely sinful). One could use the pervert accusation for those whose Lust is consequent.

* Acts of immodesty are sins even when it is not an occasion of sin to others.

* The "what about men" response is also not valid, as while there may be moral issues other than this one, diverting attention to others to end a discussion about one concern is not valid. The influence of feminism in this society is great and one must be careful to avoid being infected with such thinking. Women and Men are the two forms of humanity and are not opposed to each other in any way. Creating opposition is unholy.

* Other moral concerns are other moral concerns. While every other concern is something which is valid to discussion and consider, not all are equal in gravity and common concern. Those who are occasions of sins to others (especially oneself) are usually the most prominent which are a common concern.

* Opposing others who state how others should dress or present themselves should be carefully reviewed to find the motivation for this opposition. The central major issue is not modesty itself, but what immodesty can provoke in others without consent of the will. This is a major concern and all women and any men who have authority over women should be very mindful of this. The reason why men do not get such rebukes like this is largely because men are not such occasions of sin as often.

[Jehanne]

It just dawned on me that all these threads on immodesty dressed females are IMMORAL.  We need to stop.  I'm guilty too.  Spending so much time thinking about these girls, recalling to mind their appearances......we are allowing ourselves to be used for satan's purpose.

He's a slick fellow.  I'm reading "Rules for Discerning Spirits" and these threads are exactly what is described in the book as ways satan uses good acts (admonishing others to be virtuous) to achieve his evil end (getting us to engage in lustful thoughts and look at girls bodies).

Well, that's my 2 cents.

Modesty is beauty!

When I see a beautiful woman in a short skirt with a revealing tee, all that I can think is, "Wow, you're disgusting!"  One time I was sitting in Jiffy Lube waiting for my car to get its oil changed, and a fine looking woman came in wearing a short black skirt, black hose, and high heels.  She sat down right next to me, and I ignored her completely, feeling very uncomfortable.  Finally, she felt the need to start talking to me, and I did the classic "nod and smile" routine.  After that, she left me alone, and I was glad to leave that place.

Now, the long, flowing skirt with a modest top; what I can say but "Wow, what a babe!"  (No, not really, but I hope that you see my point here!)

[Telesphorus]

Now, the long, flowing skirt with a modest top; what I can say but "Wow, what a babe!"  (No, not really, but I hope that you see my point here!)

When women were interested in marriage, they dressed to attract the sort of man interested in marriage.

Women interested in fornication but not in marriage typically dress immodestly.  

[wallflower]

It just dawned on me that all these threads on immodesty dressed females are IMMORAL.  We need to stop.  I'm guilty too.  Spending so much time thinking about these girls, recalling to mind their appearances......we are allowing ourselves to be used for satan's purpose.

He's a slick fellow.  I'm reading "Rules for Discerning Spirits" and these threads are exactly what is described in the book as ways satan uses good acts (admonishing others to be virtuous) to achieve his evil end (getting us to engage in lustful thoughts and look at girls bodies).

Well, that's my 2 cents.

There is a grain of truth to this and it is the problem I have with some of these modesty threads. Rather than address the virtue, they often become somewhat of a gossiping session about people in one's parish. There's an appropriate way to discuss the virtue, what it is, how to express it in clothing or otherwise, how difficult it is to instill in this society, but often the threads don't keep a high road. They descend quickly into pseudo-gossip sessions or even start that way in the first place. Did you see those SSPX girls?? whisper, whisper, whisper.

If ladies sat down at a table and drank tea while saying half the things that are said up here... did you see so and so, how tight was her shirt? dressing like whores! they just want to fornicate! etc... they would likely have to confess it as gossip.

Sure, it's online, maybe no one knows who exactly is being spoken of, but the point is you can tell by how a person posts that their post stems from a place of gossip in their hearts rather than truly discussing the virtue and its necessity or the effects of the lack of the virtue. Some people come up with truly objective and edifying posts, but they are rarer.