Author Topic: This is our reality, how about yours? (Read 2864 times)

Elizabeth · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2009, 10:16:33 AM »

Oh, Mrs. Z I feel your pain, also.

My Daddy's uh, companion, the one who has inherited all of $$$$ and property is quite ill, I hear. Over the years I find it hard to pray for them as I should.

Dis-inheriting us was pretty darn crass. Whatever there is will probably go to PETA, or the Greens.

When a Catholic falls, he falls harder because he was given so much.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

Matthew · « **Reply #16 on:** November 08, 2009, 04:38:22 PM »

Wow -- it sounds like there's a lot of suffering in the Catholic world.

It appears that we're not alone in being alone.

We're pretty alone here -- we only have a couple of "contacts" who we visit from time to time.

My wife's family is Novus Ordo or fallen-away Catholic on one side, and pagan (irreligious) on the other. My family is mostly traditional Catholic, but 1,200 miles away -- a 2 day drive at best, which can't be attempted with the number of very young children we have (3).

Even our large SSPX chapel -- with a few hundred parishioners -- has very little sense of community, since many travel from far and wide to attend. Distance separates many of us. But there aren't a lot of young families there -- at least not any with much in common with us. We have a lot of military and retired military in our area -- but the military bases here are training bases, which means they come and they go.

That's the main problem -- being a "serious" Catholic (read: our Faith "intrudes" into Monday thru Saturday) sets us apart from a great number of parishioners -- and we attend a traditional Mass chapel! I've heard from well-traveled friends that things are similar at most other chapels.

We visit my wife's mom regularly; she lives pretty close by. And we stay in touch with her dad as well. We have barely enough external social contact to keep from going insane. But it's hard to not have any close friends.

We certainly try to be friendly and make friends. We actually had more friends in the past -- there were two other young couples/families nearby for a while, but they moved away. Now our social life consists of our immediate family, and not much more.

I think we'd settle for some friends who we could relate to on the natural level -- you know, some families with kids who don't watch TV, or who spend time outside or on a farm. But most of my wife's old college (Lutheran) friends -- though married for 5 years -- don't have any kids. I guess there's some horrible chemical in the air/water of Lutheran churches that makes one sterile...

We're the only ones we know (or see regularly) having any children at all -- that makes it pretty difficult. Our "support system" consists of my wife's mom. I guess on the plus side, we've learned to take care of ourselves without leaning on anyone.

We keep so busy, though, that we seldom notice how few friends we have.

I guess this is why so many Catholics find themselves drawn to online communities.

Matthew

TheD · « **Reply #17 on:** November 08, 2009, 05:00:08 PM »

In my family I am the only Traditionalist Catholic. Most of my immediate family is Conservative NO, but a lot of more distant relatives range from liberal to charismatic to fallen away. The only Latin Mass in my area was one "freed" a couple years ago by the MP, and I attend there and help participate in the choir. But like Chant said there is little sense of community among the majority, the same holds true where I attend. The Priests, alter servers, choir member, and a couple of families are the only ones I really get a chance to socialize with there. I am hoping to get my family to attend regularly. It is a working progress.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #18 on:** November 08, 2009, 05:05:38 PM »

Exactly, Matthew.

So let us try to love one another and lift each other up :cheers:

The Internet is a miracle.
:jumping2:

St Jude Thaddeus · « **Reply #19 on:** November 08, 2009, 07:06:20 PM »

Quote from: MrsZ

Do most of you have relatives and friends that are Catholic? Or do you find yourself isolated like we are?

Mother and sister/brother-in-law are Novus Ordo. Really even that's an exaggeration; they are total Indifferentists. My mom for example believes that "nice" people will all go to Heaven, no matter what faith they hold or even if they have no faith at all. The most important thing is to be "nice," especially to animals.

On the other hand, she believes that if you have committed certain mortal sins, say for example rape or murder or major theft, that God will never forgive you. Confession is only for when you have not been "nice." If you have committed a really big sin or a crime, forget it. You're going to Hell and there's nothing you can do about it. I've pointed out to her many times that not only does the Church teach something very different, but also there are obvious logical fallacies in what she believes, but she only gets angry and tells me that I'm not a Catholic and that I must be in some kind of a "cult." (I should add that my mother is 77 years old and was raised pure TLM, pre-Vatican II; she even took four years of Latin in high school. All this crud has gotten into her head from the NewChurch.)

Every so often at work or with other friends or family I try to inject a little bit of my beliefs into the conversation but the only response I ever get is the frozen grin, quick nod and let's-move-on-to-another-topic treatment. Luckily I have a few friends, one a Catholic co-worker and another a Confessional Lutheran, who appear to have some understanding of what I'm talking about. Otherwise, aside from my fellow parishioners, fuggedaboutit!

Vladimir · « **Reply #20 on:** November 08, 2009, 07:12:17 PM »

Quote from: MrsZ

Almost four hours drive to Sacramento.

The family get together was yesterday. Uncomfortable...but eventually we all just made a lot of "happy talk" that means absolutely NOTHING!

Uncle's new live in girlfriend (he's had two divorces, left Catholic Church in the early 1970's, married outside of it both times) - eventually forced my H and I to hug her when we left....My H tried to keep it at a handshake....She giggles (incessantly), and says, "Oh, M. just give me a hug!"

:really-mad2:

What is with all this hugging everyone has to do these days? It doesn't matter if it's a stranger, a man or a woman, we all have to hug! I hate it!!

Plus, it seems to me with all the hugging and self-disclosure (discussing personal matters with everyone) that goes on, it's not suprising the amount of affairs stemming from workplace involvements.

Uncle and girlfriend work together in the same office, and met when both were married to others. Go figure. :furtive:

God Bless,
Mrs Z

Ah, if you were closer, you could go to St. Stephen's with me, or the SSPX chapel, St. Michael's.

Matthew · « **Reply #21 on:** November 08, 2009, 08:31:42 PM »

Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus

Quote from: MrsZ

Do most of you have relatives and friends that are Catholic? Or do you find yourself isolated like we are?

Mother and sister/brother-in-law are Novus Ordo. Really even that's an exaggeration; they are total Indifferentists. My mom for example believes that "nice" people will all go to Heaven, no matter what faith they hold or even if they have no faith at all. The most important thing is to be "nice," especially to animals.

On the other hand, she believes that if you have committed certain mortal sins, say for example rape or murder or major theft, that God will never forgive you. Confession is only for when you have not been "nice." If you have committed a really big sin or a crime, forget it. You're going to Hell and there's nothing you can do about it. I've pointed out to her many times that not only does the Church teach something very different, but also there are obvious logical fallacies in what she believes, but she only gets angry and tells me that I'm not a Catholic and that I must be in some kind of a "cult." (I should add that my mother is 77 years old and was raised pure TLM, pre-Vatican II; she even took four years of Latin in high school. All this crud has gotten into her head from the NewChurch.)

That reminds me of the nightly news -- horrible violence coupled with the most mushy sentimentality. A story about a man who killed his 4 children, wife, then himself -- then, as a counterweight, a story about saving stray puppies.

There was an interesting article about that phenomenon -- I wish I could explain it better.

Matthew

St Jude Thaddeus · « **Reply #22 on:** November 08, 2009, 08:46:45 PM »

Quote from: ChantCd

That reminds me of the nightly news -- horrible violence coupled with the most mushy sentimentality. A story about a man who killed his 4 children, wife, then himself -- then, as a counterweight, a story about saving stray puppies.

There was an interesting article about that phenomenon -- I wish I could explain it better.

Matthew

Hey, you may be on to something here! My mother watches about three hours of network news every day, plus Oprah, Dr. Phil, and Judge Judy. She only spends forty-five minutes a week in church, if it's not too hot, too cold, too rainy, too icy, too snowy, too windy, or she just doesn't feel like it. I wonder which one has more influence: Mass Media, or Holy Church? Any guesses?

Caraffa · « **Reply #23 on:** November 08, 2009, 09:33:29 PM »

Quote from: ChantCd

Even our large SSPX chapel -- with a few hundred parishioners -- has very little sense of community, since many travel from far and wide to attend. Distance separates many of us. But there aren't a lot of young families there -- at least not any with much in common with us. We have a lot of military and retired military in our area -- but the military bases here are training bases, which means they come and they go.

Could it be that the lack of community in some Trad chapels be one of the effects of the MP? In other words, while the MP increased the number of TLMs, it decreased the overall number per chapel.

Quote

That's the main problem -- being a "serious" Catholic (read: our Faith "intrudes" into Monday thru Saturday) sets us apart from a great number of parishioners -- and we attend a traditional Mass chapel! I've heard from well-traveled friends that things are similar at most other chapels.

Interesting Chant, since you have been a Traditional Catholic longer than most of us here, do you think the fiftiesist and/or Americanists types out number the integralist Monday through Sunday types?

Vladimir · « **Reply #24 on:** November 08, 2009, 10:26:04 PM »

Quote

Could it be that the lack of community in some Trad chapels be one of the effects of the MP? In other words, while the MP increased the number of TLMs, it decreased the overall number per chapel.

It could also be that newcomers are shy.....I have never really talk to anyone at church. I want to start going to the SSPX chapel in town, but I'm a little bit nervous about it.

St Jude Thaddeus · « **Reply #25 on:** November 08, 2009, 10:51:15 PM »

Quote from: Vladimir

I want to start going to the SSPX chapel in town, but I'm a little bit nervous about it.

The first three times that you go nothing happens. Nobody talks to you, or even looks at you really. Then on the fourth time as you're leaving the chapel four big burly guys throw a black hood over your head and drag you into a little room behind the sacristy. There they beat you for ten minutes with lead-weighted saps while making you recite the St. Pius X Prayer for Vocations. Then they take off the hood and shine a powerful white light in your eyes, and quiz you on communion in the hand, interpreting Vatican 2 in the light of tradition, women in pants, and the h0Ɩ0cαųst. After that they release you into the parking lot. If you come back the next Sunday you will be treated as "one of the boys" and the previous Sunday's incident will never be mentioned again.

Or maybe that's only in Texas that they do it like that.

Alex · « **Reply #26 on:** November 09, 2009, 02:27:25 AM »

Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus

Quote from: Vladimir
I want to start going to the SSPX chapel in town, but I'm a little bit nervous about it.

The first three times that you go nothing happens. Nobody talks to you, or even looks at you really. Then on the fourth time as you're leaving the chapel four big burly guys throw a black hood over your head and drag you into a little room behind the sacristy. There they beat you for ten minutes with lead-weighted saps while making you recite the St. Pius X Prayer for Vocations. Then they take off the hood and shine a powerful white light in your eyes, and quiz you on communion in the hand, interpreting Vatican 2 in the light of tradition, women in pants, and the h0Ɩ0cαųst. After that they release you into the parking lot. If you come back the next Sunday you will be treated as "one of the boys" and the previous Sunday's incident will never be mentioned again.

Or maybe that's only in Texas that they do it like that.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #27 on:** November 09, 2009, 07:21:16 AM »

Quote from: Vladimir

Quote

Could it be that the lack of community in some Trad chapels be one of the effects of the MP? In other words, while the MP increased the number of TLMs, it decreased the overall number per chapel.

It could also be that newcomers are shy.....I have never really talk to anyone at church. I want to start going to the SSPX chapel in town, but I'm a little bit nervous about it.

Don't be nervous, don't worry if people don't talk to you for a few months, and don't gawk at the pretty girls in dresses and veils.

Belloc · « **Reply #28 on:** November 09, 2009, 07:44:47 AM »

Quote from: Caraffa

I can sympathize with you Mrs Z. I actually don't know very many Trads my age, let alone many decent devout Catholics. I suspect thats the norm if you weren't raised in traditional Catholicism. My Grandmother is a Conservative JPIIish Neo-Catholic, but when I often sound semi-distrubitist(don't agree with everything in distributism, but still) in my talking points, she calls me a liberal. :really-mad2: She also seems to lack charity at times and given her old age, that's not a good sign. She unforntunely has been Americanized since coming to the US in the 1950's from Europe despite the fact that back then, she noticed that American Catholicism was lax, watered down, and wasn't taken seriously.

You bring up good points that I have noticed, which is this:

1. many trad cirlce and even "conservative" Catholic circles have been watered down with Americanism and capitalism-anything outside taht matrix, you "hate this country" and are a liberal. Dorothy Day is evil to these people...
2.In liberal Catholci circles, there is a great emphsis on social teaching and getting involved to help the poor, etc-but for all the good works part, they get most if not all theology wrong.Also, for them CST is a mixed bag of socialism and libertarianism..

SSPX chapels we used to be involved in during the 1980's also had a bit of racism involved-we almost got a asian priest one time, a Indian priest another, both times many people-not I nor my parents-complained about this, they only wanted lilly white priests......a few went so far to say of the Indian priest "we dont want that nigger"..how damn sad when the Church should be color blind, I mean, the guy was ordained priest of Christ!!!

Charity and the social aspect of the Church to many Trads are either low or absent...when my Dad hears "Catholic Social teaching", he gets angry and goes into rant about military hating anti-AMerican hippies,etc.......though that is really not what CST is about, that is the 60's leftovers in most "Peace and Justice" offices.......so, i side gets the social teaching and charity, but crappy theology, the other has the good theology, but no charity....

Vladimir · « **Reply #29 on:** November 09, 2009, 09:36:04 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Vladimir
Quote

Could it be that the lack of community in some Trad chapels be one of the effects of the MP? In other words, while the MP increased the number of TLMs, it decreased the overall number per chapel.

It could also be that newcomers are shy.....I have never really talk to anyone at church. I want to start going to the SSPX chapel in town, but I'm a little bit nervous about it.

Don't be nervous, don't worry if people don't talk to you for a few months, and don't gawk at the pretty girls in dresses and veils.

All the women and girls at the FSSP parish I attend wear veils and dresses. :)