Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Viva Cristo Rey on December 02, 2020, 07:21:17 AM
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Here is a memes posted on face book page: “Gentle reminder that the 40 hour work week is outdated and was designed with assumption someone else was going to be always taking care of cooking, cleaning and household errands. It wasnt designed for you to be doing it all and if you’re having a hard time , you’re not a failure.”
I responded “ Wrong. What is outdated is the feminist idea of working outside the home when there is plenty of work being neglected at home including childcare. Years ago, only one income supported a household. The government is stealing from us. We have failed as a society”.
Then the poster replies: I don’t think your comment has anything to do with what the post is actually saying. ....All this meme is saying is that it is unrealistic to expect that one can work a 40 hour week and also keep up with everything perfectly inside their home....
Another one posts: “that is not possible for single moms”.
I said”40 hour work week is someone including women who work outside the home. Being a parent is 24/7. Anymore both parents are working over 40 hours a week and government controlled daycare, schools and universities are now feeding and raising. There are very few families including widows and single moms who have relatives to watch children.
Then the women who posted the memes replies: “ Don’t start mommy wars. That’s not the point. It’s a full time job being home. So working and taking care of the home well, stretches you thin. So don’t beat yourself up......
I responded: if you read the memes, it can be taken the other way. I didn’t post the memes, I just responded. If you are in your 40’s and50’s , your Mother’s stayed home and took care of the home.
Then next response was “ Oh for heavens sake, I’m turning off comments. I’m a traditional Catholic, and a stay at home mom for the last 16 years,and was working mom. Edited out working mom. you know but the sanctimony traddies.... Edited. It is not holy to take every freakin opportunity to bash and tear down other women. This was just meant to encourage other women who work outside the home.
Too bad comments are turned off.
(My next response would be instead of spending so much time online and hosting a face book page, you would have more time to clean the house. ) also, she must children. A 16 year old? Why don’t they help with cleaning??
I wonder where she goes to Mass because she doesn’t want anyone to know that she has worked outside the home as a Mom. Lol.
So sick of single moms too. Most single moms put boyfriends of their children.
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Well said.
I met a French Trad, in her mid-20s, qualified as an engineer and now working as an engineer. In a brief conversation, she quickly let me know that her career was the most important part of her life and that "she could not conceive of life without her career".
Me: * Exit stage left *
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Here is another one who responded. I am not allowed to respond. I’m a stay at home mom because that’s what my husband and I decided would be best for our family but I would never suggest that all women need to make the same choice. Should Amy Coney Barrett gave stsyed home instead of clerking for Scalia and becoming a Supreme Court justice.
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I’m a stay at home mom because that’s what my husband and I decided would be best for our family but I would never suggest that all women need to make the same choice.
Moral relativism at it's finest. Subjective Truth in action. :facepalm:
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Scalia also wrote that he didn’t have time to be a parent to his own children while he was out at the opera with Ruth Ginsberg and went on hunting trip on Valentine day weekend. So if Scalia didn’t have time for his children, how can Amy Coney Barrett. I’m sure she has a husband and older children help out but still.
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Yes, there are unfortunately quite a few Feminist Trads.
In fact, many young Trads are brainwashed by the Media -- especially the Internet (Big Tech, MSM, Social Media) about things like COVID-19, vaccines, etc. This is from a priest with first-hand experience with hundreds of Trads.
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Scalia also wrote that he didn’t have time to be a parent to his own children while he was out at the opera with Ruth Ginsberg and went on hunting trip on Valentine day weekend. So if Scalia didn’t have time for his children, how can Amy Coney Barrett. I’m sure she has a husband and older children help out but still.
For me, Kellyanne Conway's daughter is the classic example of this failure of parenting by career women. The Novus Ordo feminist pro-lifers I used to know would gush over career women who are pro-life. Now, the first question I ask any pro-lifer today is what do their children believe, and currently only the Resistance families I know can answer that positively.
A sample of parental failure the DailyMail (WARNING DAILYMAIL - immodest images):
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8655799/Claudia-Conway-15-officially-pushing-emancipation-parents.html
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Here is another career woman:
https://www.nickiswift.com/165653/the-real-reason-why-sarah-palin-is-getting-divorced/ (https://www.nickiswift.com/165653/the-real-reason-why-sarah-palin-is-getting-divorced/)
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https://www.focusonthefamily.com/pro-life/life-empowers-marching-for-women-and-the-preborn-in-2020/ (https://www.focusonthefamily.com/pro-life/life-empowers-marching-for-women-and-the-preborn-in-2020/)
The March for life is becoming more liberal, secular and feminist.
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Trad feminist is really an oxymoron.
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Well said.
I met a French Trad, in her mid-20s, qualified as an engineer and now working as an engineer. In a brief conversation, she quickly let me know that her career was the most important part of her life and that "she could not conceive of life without her career".
Me: * Exit stage left *
Conceive is an interesting verb to use in this context.
I wouldn't be so hard on her myself. She's young, obviously unmarried so for the time being all she has is her career. In other words she knows that women and men shouldn't be idle and need an occupation of some sort.
For an unmarried woman or a woman without children a career outside the home is fine unless it detracts from marriage and having children. Once children arrive her job is being a full time mother. i do agree though that women working outside the home is a consequence of feminism and it has played havoc with home life and contributed to so many children running wild.
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I think I found the problem: You're using Facebook. :facepalm:
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I think it would be important to define terms. I know women who in principle say that they are not Feminist, so they'll accept all the right principles in theory, but then they don't live according to them. That could just be ... that we're all sinners and don't always live up to our ideals. So I think that it might be to paint some stuff with a broad brush. There are some who also adhere to the principles behind feminism, but those are few and far between among Traditional Catholic women/girls. Most of them will accept the principle, pay lip service to it, but then assert themselves in a way contrary to the principles ... sometimes not even being aware of the contradiction ... since women tend not to have their emotions in line with their reason. It's like their emotions operate independently of any rational principles ... one of the effects of the Fall.
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Conceive is an interesting verb to use in this context.
I wouldn't be so hard on her myself. She's young, obviously unmarried so for the time being all she has is her career. In other words she knows that women and men shouldn't be idle and need an occupation of some sort.
For an unmarried woman or a woman without children a career outside the home is fine unless it detracts from marriage and having children. Once children arrive her job is being a full time mother. i do agree though that women working outside the home is a consequence of feminism and it has played havoc with home life and contributed to so many children running wild.
Yes, but to put her comment in context, she said she could never be a stay-at-home mother as she could not conceive of life without her career. Madness. If I was a woman I would love to be a stay-at-home mother, I simply don't understand this mentality. The working world is horrible (though many a man has been willing to work weekends to make sure his wife can look after the children).
Another woman I know who went to a Latin Mass school is now a lawyer and constantly complaining that there are not enough female partners in the law firm and that she should be getting promoted ahead of her male colleagues.
Meanwhile you hear the echo of "where have all the good men gone?"
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Recall a sermon by Father de La Tour (SSPX) where he related his findings after being invited to dinner at a traditional Catholic home.
Father is very astute at observing family home life and in this case he took the opportunity to inquire about the aspirations of the family’s teenage children.
The college bound daughter stated that she wanted to be a medical doctor and intended to marry a man who would be her “house husband”.
Father was aghast.
The subtle brainwashing effect of
America’s judaized culture impacts even traditional Catholics.
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I'm bumping this.
Why on earth are women wanting to know a man for 4+ years before even courting him?
I'm recently married, but I have so many single well-to-do faithful attractive guy friends that would love to find just an average
woman willing to raise children in the traditional Catholic faith.
This is a huge problem. The bad attitudes of the young spoiled women need to change.
In my opinion it's the fault of the fathers. A lot of the fathers in the trad community are low T bread winners, who think their daughter is the princess of the region...
Dads, do your duty and help your daughter along to get married. Stop sheltering her from increasing her virtue.
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Why on earth are women wanting to know a man for 4+ years before even courting him?
She needs time to review your posting history on CathInfo? :laugh1:
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She needs time to review your posting history on CathInfo? :laugh1:
If that's true, we are definitely doomed. lol
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Why on earth are women wanting to know a man for 4+ years before even courting him?
I'm recently married, but I have so many single well-to-do faithful attractive guy friends that would love to find just an average
woman willing to raise children in the traditional Catholic faith.
This is a huge problem. The bad attitudes of the young spoiled women need to change.
In my opinion it's the fault of the fathers. A lot of the fathers in the trad community are low T bread winners, who think their daughter is the princess of the region...
Dads, do your duty and help your daughter along to get married. Stop sheltering her from increasing her virtue.
Here's another example.
I have *no clue* what you're talking about. And I've been around the block plenty of times, so that's rarely the case for me. I collect "big picture" truths, trends, phenomena, tendencies, and other patterns as an intense side hobby. And I've done so for years. For me it's like breathing. It's why I started CathInfo for crying out loud.
Usually when someone talks about a "trend" I've at least heard about it, read about it, or seen it at LEAST 2 or 3 times. If the trend has anything to it, that is. But this time? Zilch.
Maybe your friends are beta males and/or immature, economically immature, not ready to get married, so they've been disqualified and/or friendzoned? Or, they aren't serious enough Catholics so they've been similarly disqualified? Maybe the girls are trying to be nice -- it can be hard for a nice/shy person to outright reject someone. Now that would at least make sense...
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If that's true, we are definitely doomed. lol
Yeah, it's a good thing I got married BEFORE I signed up for CathInfo (before CathInfo existed).
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Here's another example.
I have *no clue* what you're talking about. And I've been around the block plenty of times, so that's rarely the case for me. I collect "big picture" truths, trends, phenomena, tendencies, and other patterns as an intense side hobby. And I've done so for years. For me it's like breathing. It's why I started CathInfo for crying out loud.
Usually when someone talks about a "trend" I've at least heard about it, read about it, or seen it at LEAST 2 or 3 times. If the trend has anything to it, that is. But this time? Zilch.
Maybe your friends are beta males and/or immature, economically immature, not ready to get married, so they've been disqualified and/or friendzoned? Or, they aren't serious enough Catholics so they've been similarly disqualified? Maybe the girls are trying to be nice -- it can be hard for a nice/shy person to outright reject someone. Now that would at least make sense...
The guys that I consider my friends are most certainly not beta males/immature/economically immature at all. I don't surround myself with those loser types. The girls and their weak fathers are mostly the problem.
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Dads, do your duty and help your daughter along to get married. Stop sheltering her from increasing her virtue.
Here's what that "low T bread winner," St. Paul, said about the subject in 1 Corinthians 7:
25 Now concerning virgins, I have no commandment of the Lord; but I give counsel, as having obtained mercy of the Lord, to be faithful. 26 I think therefore that this is good for the present necessity, that it is good for a man so to be. 27 Art thou bound to a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. 28 But if thou take a wife, thou hast not sinned. And if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned: nevertheless, such shall have tribulation of the flesh. But I spare you. 29 This therefore I say, brethren; the time is short; it remaineth, that they also who have wives, be as if they had none; 30 And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as if they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not; 31 And they that use this world, as if they used it not: for the fashion of this world passeth away. 32 But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. 33 But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided. 34 And the unmarried woman and the virgin thinketh on the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she that is married thinketh on the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35 And this I speak for your profit: not to cast a snare upon you; but for that which is decent, and which may give you power to attend upon the Lord, without impediment. 36 But if any man think that he seemeth dishonoured, with regard to his virgin, for that she is above the age, and it must so be: let him do what he will; he sinneth not, if she marry. 37 For he that hath determined being steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but having power of his own will; and hath judged this in his heart, to keep his virgin, doth well. 38 Therefore, both he that giveth his virgin in marriage, doth well; and he that giveth her not, doth better. 39 A woman is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband die, she is at liberty: let her marry to whom she will; only in the Lord. 40 But more blessed shall she be, if she so remain, according to my counsel; and I think that I also have the spirit of God.
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Here's what that "low T bread winner," St. Paul, said about the subject in 1 Corinthians 7:
I wouldn't put a low T bread winning modern day father in the same league as St. Paul..
I love St. Paul btw.
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I'm bumping this.
Why on earth are women wanting to know a man for 4+ years before even courting him?
I'm recently married, but I have so many single well-to-do faithful attractive guy friends that would love to find just an average
woman willing to raise children in the traditional Catholic faith.
This is a huge problem. The bad attitudes of the young spoiled women need to change.
In my opinion it's the fault of the fathers. A lot of the fathers in the trad community are low T bread winners, who think their daughter is the princess of the region...
Dads, do your duty and help your daughter along to get married. Stop sheltering her from increasing her virtue.
Most traditional single ladies whom I know actually prefer a man who will propose to them within six months to a year of being in a courtship and seem to have trouble finding such men. So, I guess that we are just in different traditional circles. 😅
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What is a low T bread winner?
I agree with AMDG. There are just as many women who cannot find a suitable spouse.
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Most traditional single ladies whom I know actually prefer a man who will propose to them within six months to a year of being in a courtship and seem to have trouble finding such men. So, I guess that we are just in different traditional circles. 😅
We must be. haha. Also, in my experience, and from what my friends are telling me, the women needs to know the guy "as a friend" for like 3 years before courting/dating.... That's not acceptable in my opinion if you're vocation is marriage.
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We must be. haha. Also, in my experience, and from what my friends are telling me, the women needs to know the guy "as a friend" for like 3 years before courting/dating.... That's not acceptable in my opinion if you're vocation is marriage.
Well, I'm going to say it's a particular thing at that chapel, maybe a few families, or AT WORST a cultural thing for the region in which you live. It does NOT seem to be a "broad problem" or "epidemic" because most people have no experience with what you're talking about.
Everything a person experiences, personally or among a circle of friends (in the same locality) does NOT equal an epidemic or widespread problem.
I don't blame you for offering your suggestion. It's like a hypothesis, inviting other scientists to test it as well. I suppose that's the only way to know if something *you* experience is a broader issue, an "epidemic" or not. Posting your proposed pattern or phenomena on a broader, global forum like CathInfo, something that transcends your local area, would allow you to get feedback from others.
Kind of like the website "Is the website down or is it just me?"
Sometimes it turns out to be "just you", other times the website is down (for everyone).
Well, unfortunately, in this particular case, I'm going to have to reply in the negative, "No such issues over here."
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Well, I'm going to say it's a particular thing at that chapel, maybe a few families, or AT WORST a cultural thing for the region in which you live. It does NOT seem to be a "broad problem" or "epidemic" because most people have no experience with what you're talking about.
Everything a person experiences, personally or among a circle of friends (in the same locality) does NOT equal an epidemic or widespread problem.
I don't blame you for offering your suggestion. It's like a hypothesis, inviting other scientists to test it as well. I suppose that's the only way to know if something *you* experience is a broader issue, an "epidemic" or not. Posting your proposed pattern or phenomena on a broader, global forum like CathInfo, something that transcends your local area, would allow you to get feedback from others.
Kind of like the website "Is the website down or is it just me?"
Sometimes it turns out to be "just you", other times the website is down (for everyone).
Well, unfortunately, in this particular case, I'm going to have to reply in the negative, "No such issues over here."
This is actually a good point. I just feel a genuine sense of empathy for my buddies. I personally had to patiently wait until my wife was "comfortable" with me and it was very difficult. Like, very difficult. I wanted to move on, but I loved her too much.
It could be the region too, I'm not sure.
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We must be. haha. Also, in my experience, and from what my friends are telling me, the women needs to know the guy "as a friend" for like 3 years before courting/dating.... That's not acceptable in my opinion if you're vocation is marriage.
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No, of course it's not appropriate, and for a woman to behave like this shows a poor upbringing and a lack of knowledge of the Faith.
If they would read devotional books that actually tell people how to live, they would know this is bad. St. Francis de Sales in his classic on spirituality The Introduction to the Devout Life talks at great length about why "platonic" friendships between men and women without any real intention to get married are dangerous and wrong. He says quite simply because platonic friendships of that kind usually do not remain so, which is obvious. So when women say they just want to be friends, that is going against this wise teaching.
As far as the length of courtship goes, St. Alphonsus and most spiritual writers say it shouldn't go longer than a year, because that is long enough to know if someone is spouse material, and longer than that it becomes an occasion of sin.
So the correct and Catholic approach is to say, "Let's try this out for a year or so and see if it works, and if not, we both move on." If women aren't willing to do that with a man, then he is not "friend" material for them either.
This is not some arcane, hidden knowledge that you can only find by digging through lost medieval manuscripts. This is common advice given in almost every Catholic book of guidance for young people. The fact that women do not know about this and don't follow it shows they are neglecting to know and study their faith.
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She needs time to review your posting history on CathInfo? :laugh1:
If that's true, we are definitely doomed. lol
:laugh1:
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No, of course it's not appropriate, and for a woman to behave like this shows a poor upbringing and a lack of knowledge of the Faith.
If they would read devotional books that actually tell people how to live, they would know this is bad. St. Francis de Sales in his classic on spirituality The Introduction to the Devout Life talks at great length about why "platonic" friendships between men and women without any real intention to get married are dangerous and wrong. He says quite simply because platonic friendships of that kind usually do not remain so, which is obvious. So when women say they just want to be friends, that is going against this wise teaching.
As far as the length of courtship goes, St. Alphonsus and most spiritual writers say it shouldn't go longer than a year, because that is long enough to know if someone is spouse material, and longer than that it becomes an occasion of sin.
So the correct and Catholic approach is to say, "Let's try this out for a year or so and see if it works, and if not, we both move on." If women aren't willing to do that with a man, then he is not "friend" material for them either.
This is not some arcane, hidden knowledge that you can only find by digging through lost medieval manuscripts. This is common advice given in almost every Catholic book of guidance for young people. The fact that women do not know about this and don't follow it shows they are neglecting to know and study their faith.
My one friend lives in the Midwest, so maybe it's a Midwest thing no clue. He asked a girl's father (since she was in her early 20's, but still lived with parents, which is fine) if he could court her, and he basically said she's very shy and wants to hang out with you in "groups". The stink of it, is that she really likes him but won't court him. In regards to what the father would need for his daughter, my friend checks all the boxes, so I'm not sure what the deal is. Please pray for him, though, as it's bothering him a lot. I do think he's talking to other women, but it's exhausting for him.
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No, of course it's not appropriate, and for a woman to behave like this shows a poor upbringing and a lack of knowledge of the Faith.
If they would read devotional books that actually tell people how to live, they would know this is bad. St. Francis de Sales in his classic on spirituality The Introduction to the Devout Life talks at great length about why "platonic" friendships between men and women without any real intention to get married are dangerous and wrong. He says quite simply because platonic friendships of that kind usually do not remain so, which is obvious. So when women say they just want to be friends, that is going against this wise teaching.
As far as the length of courtship goes, St. Alphonsus and most spiritual writers say it shouldn't go longer than a year, because that is long enough to know if someone is spouse material, and longer than that it becomes an occasion of sin.
So the correct and Catholic approach is to say, "Let's try this out for a year or so and see if it works, and if not, we both move on." If women aren't willing to do that with a man, then he is not "friend" material for them either.
This is not some arcane, hidden knowledge that you can only find by digging through lost medieval manuscripts. This is common advice given in almost every Catholic book of guidance for young people. The fact that women do not know about this and don't follow it shows they are neglecting to know and study their faith.
I would question whether these women really want to get married.
I think the one year is a good length of time. I would only suggest more time if the relationship were a long-distance relationship where the opportunity for real, in-person time needs to be stretched out.
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I would question whether these women really want to get married.
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Yes, I've definitely gotten that impression from reading these accounts as well, that the "I want to know you for several years before we go on a date" is supposed to be a polite way of saying "I'm not interested in you." That also shows bad upbringing too, to string someone along like that instead of being honest.
That's what I would say to your friend, too, Croix, that he is in denial if he thinks that woman is interested in him. (By the way, I can't believe you got married!! I stand in astonishment. Well, congratulations, though!)
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That's what I would say to your friend, too, Croix, that he is in denial if he thinks that woman is interested in him. (By the way, I can't believe you got married!! I stand in astonishment. Well, congratulations, though!)
LOL ... yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows that Everlast22 is Croix, the name possibly being a reference to the fact that he has outlasted about a dozen bans. And I too was astonished that he got married, but likewise congratulate him (and hopefully his wife too :laugh1:). That was my oblique reference to posting history earlier in this thread, where I said that a prosepctive spouse would need time to research his posting history on CI.
He has behaved himself more with this Everlast account, so perhaps his wife is reining him in a bit.
Plus, his wife has it really easy. She doesn't have to cook, because she can just feed him refined sugar all day. :laugh1:
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LOL ... yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows that Everlast22 is Croix, the name possibly being a reference to the fact that he has outlasted about a dozen bans. And I too was astonished that he got married, but likewise congratulate him (and hopefully his wife too :laugh1:). That was my oblique reference to posting history earlier in this thread, where I said that a prosepctive spouse would need time to research his posting history on CI.
He has behaved himself more with this Everlast account, so perhaps his wife is reining him in a bit.
Plus, his wife has it really easy. She doesn't have to cook, because she can just feed him refined sugar all day. :laugh1:
I promise I'm not "Croix" lol
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I promise I'm not "Croix" lol
That's right. You're a "new man" now thaty you've married.
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That's right. You're a "new man" now thaty you've married.
You saying I'm not? Or is your wife giving you too much refined sugar, too.
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LOL ... yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows that Everlast22 is Croix, the name possibly being a reference to the fact that he has outlasted about a dozen bans. And I too was astonished that he got married, but likewise congratulate him (and hopefully his wife too :laugh1:). That was my oblique reference to posting history earlier in this thread, where I said that a prosepctive spouse would need time to research his posting history on CI.
He has behaved himself more with this Everlast account, so perhaps his wife is reining him in a bit.
Plus, his wife has it really easy. She doesn't have to cook, because she can just feed him refined sugar all day. :laugh1:
:laugh1: I thought so too! Congratulations Croix!
The last sentence really made me 😂😂😂
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Congratulations! 😎
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I promise I'm not "Croix" lol
Of course you're not Croix, Croix! You're "Everlast22"! :laugh1:
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My one friend lives in the Midwest, so maybe it's a Midwest thing no clue. He asked a girl's father (since she was in her early 20's, but still lived with parents, which is fine) if he could court her, and he basically said she's very shy and wants to hang out with you in "groups".
This girl sounds like a sweet old-fashioned girl who would make someone a wonderful wife. She has her head on straight. In all probability she longs for the days of chaperones. Lacking that, the next best thing is do become friends and engage socially with other young people. She knows that relationships should begin with friendship and grow slowly. No need to rush things.
A young man who would reject that sounds immature.